Обсуждение: Outline for PostgreSQL book
Here is my proposal for an outline for a PostgreSQL book. Many of us have been asked by publishers about writing a book. Here is what I think would be a good outline for the book. I am interested in whether this is a good outline for a PostgreSQL book, how our existing documentation matches this outline, where our existing documentation can be managed into a published book, etc. Any comments would be welcome. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 ................................................................... The attached document is in both web page and text formats. View the one which looks best. PostgreSQL Book Proposal Bruce Momjian 1. Introduction 2. Installation (a) Getting POSTGRESQL (b) Compiling (c) Initialization (d) Starting the server (e) Creating a database (f) Issuing database commands 3. Introduction to SQL (a) Why a database? (b) Creating tables (c) Adding data with INSERT (d) Viewing data with SELECT (e) Removing data with DELETE (f) Modifying data with UPDATE (g) Restriction with WHERE (h) Sorting data with ORDER BY (i) Usage of NULL values 4. Advanced SQL Commands (a) Inserting data from a SELECT (b) Aggregates: COUNT, SUM, etc. (c) GROUP BY with aggregates (d) HAVING with aggregates (e) Joining tables (f) Using table aliases (g) UNION clause (h) Subqueries (i) Transactions (j) Cursors (k) Indexing (l) Table defaults (m) Primary/Foreign keys (n) AND/OR usage (o) LIKE clause usage (p) Temporary tables (q) Importing data 5. POSTGRESQL'S Unique Features (a) Object ID'S (OID) (b) Multi-version Concurrency Control (MVCC) (c) Locking and Deadlocks (d) Vacuum (e) Views (f) Rules (g) Sequences (h) Triggers (i) Large Objects(BLOBS) (j) Adding User-defined Functions (k) Adding User-defined Operators (l) Adding User-defined Types (m) Exotic Preinstalled Types (n) Arrays (o) Inheritance 6. Interfacing to the POSTGRESQL Database (a) C Language API (b) Embedded C (c) C++ (d) JAVA (e) ODBC (f) PERL (g) TCL/TK (h) PYTHON (i) Web access (PHP) (j) Server-side programming (PLPGSQL and SPI) 7. POSTGRESQL Adminstration (a) Creating users and databases (b) Backup and restore (c) Performance tuning (d) Troubleshooting (e) Customization options (f) Setting access permissions 8. Additional Resources (a) Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ'S) (b) Mailing list support (c) Supplied documentation (d) Commercial support (e) Modifying the source code
Bruce Momjian wrote:
>Here is my proposal for an outline for a PostgreSQL book. Many of us
>have been asked by publishers about writing a book. Here is what I
>think would be a good outline for the book.
>
>I am interested in whether this is a good outline for a PostgreSQL book,
>how our existing documentation matches this outline, where our existing
>documentation can be managed into a published book, etc.
>
>Any comments would be welcome.
> PostgreSQL Book Proposal
>
> Bruce Momjian
>
> 1.
> Introduction
> 2.
> Installation
...
> 3.
> Introduction to SQL
...
It looks good; I have a comment on the order of chapters, however.
I suggest that Installlation goes in an Appendix. More and more, people
will be coming to machines that already have software installed, or have
them installed as packages (.rpm or .deb).
Installation is the administrator's job, and not of interest to `normal'
users, so it should not be placed in the book as if every user had to do
it.
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aside to false gods." Psalms 40:4
> It looks good; I have a comment on the order of chapters, however. > > I suggest that Installlation goes in an Appendix. More and more, people > will be coming to machines that already have software installed, or have > them installed as packages (.rpm or .deb). > > Installation is the administrator's job, and not of interest to `normal' > users, so it should not be placed in the book as if every user had to do > it. Done. Certainly better to get that at the end. That chapter is going to be a mess to look at. New version attached. No PDF version this time. Do people like PDF? -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 ................................................................... The attached document is in both web page and text formats. View the one which looks best. PostgreSQL Book Proposal Bruce Momjian 1. Introduction (a) History of POSTGRESQL (b) Open source software (c) When to use a database 2. Issuing database commands (a) Starting a database session (b) Controlling a session (c) Sending queries (d) Getting help 3. Introduction to SQL (a) Creating tables (b) Adding data with INSERT (c) Viewing data with SELECT (d) Removing data with DELETE (e) Modifying data with UPDATE (f) Restricting with WHERE (g) Sorting data with ORDER BY (h) Using NULL values 4. Advanced SQL Commands (a) Inserting data from a SELECT (b) Aggregates: COUNT, SUM, ... (c) GROUP BY with aggregates (d) HAVING with aggregates (e) Joining tables (f) Using table aliases (g) UNION clause (h) Subqueries (i) Transactions (j) Cursors (k) Indexing (l) Column defaults (m) Primary/foreign keys (n) AND/OR usage (o) LIKE clause usage (p) Temporary tables (q) Importing data 5. POSTGRESQL'S Unique Features (a) Object ID'S (OID'S) (b) Multi-Version Concurrency Control (c) Locking and deadlocks (d) Vacuum (e) Views (f) Rules (g) Sequences (h) Triggers (i) Large objects(BLOBS) (j) Adding user-defined functions (k) Adding user-defined operators (l) Adding user-defined types (m) Exotic pre-installed types (n) Arrays (o) Inheritance 6. Interfacing to the POSTGRESQL Database (a) C Language API (b) Embedded C (c) C++ (d) JAVA (e) ODBC (f) PERL (g) TCL/TK (h) PYTHON (i) Web access (PHP) (j) Server-side programming (PLPGSQL and SPI) 7. POSTGRESQL Administration (a) Creating users and databases (b) Backup and restore (c) Performance (d) Troubleshooting (e) Customization (f) Setting access permissions (g) International character encodings 8. Additional Resources (a) Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ'S) (b) Mailing list support (c) Supplied documentation (d) Commercial support (e) Modifying the source code 9. Appendix: Installation (a) Getting POSTGRESQL (b) Compiling (c) Initialization (d) Starting the server (e) Creating a database 10. Annotated Bibliography
On 12-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote: >> It looks good; I have a comment on the order of chapters, however. >> >> I suggest that Installlation goes in an Appendix. More and more, people >> will be coming to machines that already have software installed, or have >> them installed as packages (.rpm or .deb). > >> >> Installation is the administrator's job, and not of interest to `normal' >> users, so it should not be placed in the book as if every user had to do >> it. > > Done. Certainly better to get that at the end. That chapter is going > to be a mess to look at. > > New version attached. No PDF version this time. Do people like PDF? Not at this early stage. Wait till it's further along. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include <std/disclaimers.h> Have you seen http://www.pop4.net? Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ==========================================================================
At 16:56 12-10-99 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > Installation is the administrator's job, and not of interest to `normal' > > users, so it should not be placed in the book as if every user had to do > > it. > Done. Certainly better to get that at the end. That chapter is going > to be a mess to look at. I agree on this particular item BUT... wouldn't it be nice if the book would be a 'hard' book? there already are lots of database tutorials, introductions to sql etc. focus on db developers, go into (maybe not that deep) how and why postgres is/was developed the way it is/was. 'hard' books are a 'good thing' (tm) and it would be too bad if this would become another entry-level booklet. OTOH an entry-level book is probably required to get as big a user-base as possible.
At 16:56 12-10-99 -0400, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Installation is the administrator's job, and not of interest to `normal' > users, so it should not be placed in the book as if every user had to do > it. Done. Certainly better to get that at the end. That chapter is going to be a mess to look at. I agree on this particular item BUT... wouldn't it be nice if the book would be a 'hard' book? there already are lots of database tutorials, introductions to sql etc. focus on db developers, go into (maybe not that deep) how and why postgres is/was developed the way it is/was. 'hard' books are a 'good thing' (tm) and it would be too bad if this would become another entry-level booklet. OTOH an entry-level book is probably required to get as big a user-base as possible.
On 12-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote: >> It looks good; I have a comment on the order of chapters, however. >> >> I suggest that Installlation goes in an Appendix. More and more, people >> will be coming to machines that already have software installed, or have >> them installed as packages (.rpm or .deb). > >> >> Installation is the administrator's job, and not of interest to `normal' >> users, so it should not be placed in the book as if every user had to do >> it. > > Done. Certainly better to get that at the end. That chapter is going > to be a mess to look at. It doesn't have to be a mess. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include <std/disclaimers.h> Have you seen http://www.pop4.net? Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ==========================================================================
> I agree on this particular item BUT... > > wouldn't it be nice if the book would be a 'hard' book? > there already are lots of database tutorials, introductions to sql etc. > > focus on db developers, go into (maybe not that deep) how and why postgres > is/was developed the way it is/was. > > 'hard' books are a 'good thing' (tm) and it would be too bad if this would > become another entry-level booklet. > > OTOH an entry-level book is probably required to get as big a user-base as > possible. Publishers have already talked to me about multiple books. I think we need to start with an newbie book, with the chapters clearly arranged so experienced people can skip newbie chapters. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
> > On 12-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote: > >> It looks good; I have a comment on the order of chapters, however. > >> > >> I suggest that Installlation goes in an Appendix. More and more, people > >> will be coming to machines that already have software installed, or have > >> them installed as packages (.rpm or .deb). > > > >> > >> Installation is the administrator's job, and not of interest to `normal' > >> users, so it should not be placed in the book as if every user had to do > >> it. > > > > Done. Certainly better to get that at the end. That chapter is going > > to be a mess to look at. > > It doesn't have to be a mess. > Frankly, if I can get away with having whole sections that point to URL files, so much the better. If I can just point them to the INSTALL file, and be done with it, great. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
On 13-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote: >> >> On 12-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote: >> >> It looks good; I have a comment on the order of chapters, however. >> >> >> >> I suggest that Installlation goes in an Appendix. More and more, people >> >> will be coming to machines that already have software installed, or have >> >> them installed as packages (.rpm or .deb). >> > >> >> >> >> Installation is the administrator's job, and not of interest to `normal' >> >> users, so it should not be placed in the book as if every user had to do >> >> it. >> > >> > Done. Certainly better to get that at the end. That chapter is going >> > to be a mess to look at. >> >> It doesn't have to be a mess. >> > > Frankly, if I can get away with having whole sections that point to URL > files, so much the better. If I can just point them to the INSTALL > file, and be done with it, great. The installation can be quick and painless. I'll explain more tomorrow. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include <std/disclaimers.h> Have you seen http://www.pop4.net? Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ==========================================================================
Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > OTOH an entry-level book is probably required to get as big a user-base as
> > possible.
>
> Publishers have already talked to me about multiple books. I think we
> need to start with an newbie book, with the chapters clearly arranged so
> experienced people can skip newbie chapters.
I don't think it really matters that much if the first book
about PostgreSQL is more for a newbie than a professional or
vice versa. What count's is that it is up to date and
correct. If I go to a book store and find only one book on a
topic, it's usually not the one "I" was looking for. But
what would make other authors write another book on the same
topic - most likely the authors who write details I haven't
known before? It's the success of the former one.
Think about it a little.
The first book has to be successful. Therefore it has to
address most of the interested people. Those who know how to
get the information they need out of manpages, RFC's and W3C
recommendations aren't the ppl who to address in this case.
So let it please be a newbie book, and the hard ones will
follow.
Another problem is that during the last release cycles, it
wasn't that easy to follow all the changes in the
capabilities of PostgreSQL. Not even for me, and I'm not
counting myself to the outermost circle. Now what chance do
you give a book that's written based on v6.5 if we are about
to release v7.1 some months ahead? And more important, if it
happens this way, does our "aggressive" development invite
other authors to take a chance on the same topic? I don't
think so.
If we really want professional publishing about PostgreSQL
(we want - no?), the core team has to co-operate with the
authors of those books in a way, that they can write their
book based on the upcoming release and sell it with a CD
where that release is included. At the time it is published,
there should only be bugfixes available on the net - not
already two newer releases.
Jan
--
#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me. #
#========================================= wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #
> Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > OTOH an entry-level book is probably required to get as big a user-base as > > > possible. > > > > Publishers have already talked to me about multiple books. I think we > > need to start with an newbie book, with the chapters clearly arranged so > > experienced people can skip newbie chapters. > > I don't think it really matters that much if the first book > about PostgreSQL is more for a newbie than a professional or > vice versa. What count's is that it is up to date and > correct. If I go to a book store and find only one book on a > topic, it's usually not the one "I" was looking for. But > what would make other authors write another book on the same > topic - most likely the authors who write details I haven't > known before? It's the success of the former one. > > Think about it a little. > > The first book has to be successful. Therefore it has to > address most of the interested people. Those who know how to > get the information they need out of manpages, RFC's and W3C > recommendations aren't the ppl who to address in this case. > So let it please be a newbie book, and the hard ones will > follow. That was my thought too. > Another problem is that during the last release cycles, it > wasn't that easy to follow all the changes in the > capabilities of PostgreSQL. Not even for me, and I'm not > counting myself to the outermost circle. Now what chance do > you give a book that's written based on v6.5 if we are about > to release v7.1 some months ahead? And more important, if it > happens this way, does our "aggressive" development invite > other authors to take a chance on the same topic? I don't > think so. > > If we really want professional publishing about PostgreSQL > (we want - no?), the core team has to co-operate with the > authors of those books in a way, that they can write their > book based on the upcoming release and sell it with a CD > where that release is included. At the time it is published, > there should only be bugfixes available on the net - not > already two newer releases. I have a list of interested publishers, and am going to post it so people can get involved and start writing. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
You should put one special section to talk about DATE. (datetime,
abstime, etc..)
That is the most asked by the mailing list.
You could put tons of samples on how to use and manipulate DATE.
ie. How to get the time, how to get the minute, how to get the hour,
how to get the month in number (1,2,3,4),
how to get the month in word (JAN, FEB, MAR)
The most important thing is to have alot of samples.
Practical samples are more useful than just syntax.
Regards,
Chairudin Sentosa
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> Here is my proposal for an outline for a PostgreSQL book. Many of us
> have been asked by publishers about writing a book. Here is what I
> think would be a good outline for the book.
>
> I am interested in whether this is a good outline for a PostgreSQL
> book,
> how our existing documentation matches this outline, where our
> existing
> documentation can be managed into a published book, etc.
>
> Any comments would be welcome.
>
> --
> Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
> maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
> + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
> + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania
> 19026
> ...................................................................
>
> The attached document is in both web page and text formats.
> View the one which looks best.
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> PostgreSQL Book Proposal
>
> Bruce Momjian
>
> 1. Introduction
> 2. Installation
>
> (a) Getting POSTGRESQL
> (b) Compiling
> (c) Initialization
> (d) Starting the server
> (e) Creating a database
> (f) Issuing database commands
> 3. Introduction to SQL
>
> (a) Why a database?
> (b) Creating tables
> (c) Adding data with INSERT
> (d) Viewing data with SELECT
> (e) Removing data with DELETE
> (f) Modifying data with UPDATE
> (g) Restriction with WHERE
> (h) Sorting data with ORDER BY
> (i) Usage of NULL values
> 4. Advanced SQL Commands
>
> (a) Inserting data from a SELECT
> (b) Aggregates: COUNT, SUM, etc.
> (c) GROUP BY with aggregates
> (d) HAVING with aggregates
> (e) Joining tables
> (f) Using table aliases
> (g) UNION clause
> (h) Subqueries
> (i) Transactions
> (j) Cursors
> (k) Indexing
> (l) Table defaults
> (m) Primary/Foreign keys
> (n) AND/OR usage
> (o) LIKE clause usage
> (p) Temporary tables
> (q) Importing data
> 5. POSTGRESQL'S Unique Features
>
> (a) Object ID'S (OID)
> (b) Multi-version Concurrency Control (MVCC)
> (c) Locking and Deadlocks
> (d) Vacuum
> (e) Views
> (f) Rules
> (g) Sequences
> (h) Triggers
> (i) Large Objects(BLOBS)
> (j) Adding User-defined Functions
> (k) Adding User-defined Operators
> (l) Adding User-defined Types
> (m) Exotic Preinstalled Types
> (n) Arrays
> (o) Inheritance
> 6. Interfacing to the POSTGRESQL Database
>
> (a) C Language API
> (b) Embedded C
> (c) C++
> (d) JAVA
> (e) ODBC
> (f) PERL
> (g) TCL/TK
> (h) PYTHON
> (i) Web access (PHP)
> (j) Server-side programming (PLPGSQL and SPI)
> 7. POSTGRESQL Adminstration
>
> (a) Creating users and databases
> (b) Backup and restore
> (c) Performance tuning
> (d) Troubleshooting
> (e) Customization options
> (f) Setting access permissions
> 8. Additional Resources
>
> (a) Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ'S)
> (b) Mailing list support
> (c) Supplied documentation
> (d) Commercial support
> (e) Modifying the source code
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> PostgreSQL Book Proposal
>
> Bruce Momjian
>
> 1.
> Introduction
> 2.
> Installation
> (a)
> Getting POSTGRESQL
> (b)
> Compiling
> (c)
> Initialization
> (d)
> Starting the server
> (e)
> Creating a database
> (f)
> Issuing database commands
> 3.
> Introduction to SQL
> (a)
> Why a database?
> (b)
> Creating tables
> (c)
> Adding data with INSERT
> (d)
> Viewing data with SELECT
> (e)
> Removing data with DELETE
> (f)
> Modifying data with UPDATE
> (g)
> Restriction with WHERE
> (h)
> Sorting data with ORDER BY
> (i)
> Usage of NULL values
> 4.
> Advanced SQL Commands
> (a)
> Inserting data from a SELECT
> (b)
> Aggregates: COUNT, SUM, etc.
> (c)
> GROUP BY with aggregates
> (d)
> HAVING with aggregates
> (e)
> Joining tables
> (f)
> Using table aliases
> (g)
> UNION clause
> (h)
> Subqueries
> (i)
> Transactions
> (j)
> Cursors
> (k)
> Indexing
> (l)
> Table defaults
> (m)
> Primary/Foreign keys
> (n)
> AND/OR usage
> (o)
> LIKE clause usage
> (p)
> Temporary tables
> (q)
> Importing data
> 5.
> POSTGRESQL'S Unique Features
> (a)
> Object ID'S (OID)
> (b)
> Multi-version Concurrency Control (MVCC)
> (c)
> Locking and Deadlocks
> (d)
> Vacuum
> (e)
> Views
> (f)
> Rules
> (g)
> Sequences
> (h)
> Triggers
> (i)
> Large Objects(BLOBS)
> (j)
> Adding User-defined Functions
> (k)
> Adding User-defined Operators
> (l)
> Adding User-defined Types
> (m)
> Exotic Preinstalled Types
> (n)
> Arrays
> (o)
> Inheritance
> 6.
> Interfacing to the POSTGRESQL Database
> (a)
> C Language API
> (b)
> Embedded C
> (c)
> C++
> (d)
> JAVA
> (e)
> ODBC
> (f)
> PERL
> (g)
> TCL/TK
> (h)
> PYTHON
> (i)
> Web access (PHP)
> (j)
> Server-side programming (PLPGSQL and SPI)
> 7.
> POSTGRESQL Adminstration
> (a)
> Creating users and databases
> (b)
> Backup and restore
> (c)
> Performance tuning
> (d)
> Troubleshooting
> (e)
> Customization options
> (f)
> Setting access permissions
> 8.
> Additional Resources
> (a)
> Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ'S)
> (b)
> Mailing list support
> (c)
> Supplied documentation
> (d)
> Commercial support
> (e)
> Modifying the source code
> Here is my proposal for an outline for a PostgreSQL book. Many of us > have been asked by publishers about writing a book. Here is what I > think would be a good outline for the book. > > I am interested in whether this is a good outline for a PostgreSQL book, > how our existing documentation matches this outline, where our existing > documentation can be managed into a published book, etc. > > Any comments would be welcome. A chapter following the Introduction discussing the philosopy behind Postgres development, the benefits of Postgres, and an outline of the architecture would be useful. For the rest - I can't wait :) -------- Regards Theo
On 13-Oct-99 Vince Vielhaber wrote: > > On 13-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote: 2BOOK Authors: Please, try to keep rights for translating this book into another languages by you self, not by publisher. I may ask some St.Pitersburg's publishing company to make russian translation of this book, but some publishers like O'Reilly have too hard license policy and too long reaction time. --- Dmitry Samersoff, dms@wplus.net, ICQ:3161705 http://devnull.wplus.net * There will come soft rains ...
Dmitry Samersoff wrote: > > On 13-Oct-99 Vince Vielhaber wrote: > > > > On 13-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote: > > 2BOOK Authors: > Please, try to keep rights for translating this book into another > languages by you self, not by publisher. > > I may ask some St.Pitersburg's publishing company > to make russian translation of this book, but some publishers > like O'Reilly have too hard license policy > and too long reaction time. > I may ask some Indonesian's publishing company to make Indonesian translation of this book too. I may help the translation from English to Indonesian language. Regards, Chairudin Sentosa
Chairudin Sentosa Harjo wrote:
>
> You should put one special section to talk about DATE. (datetime,
> abstime, etc..)
> That is the most asked by the mailing list.
> You could put tons of samples on how to use and manipulate DATE.
> ie. How to get the time, how to get the minute, how to get the hour,
> how to get the month in number (1,2,3,4),
> how to get the month in word (JAN, FEB, MAR)
how to select all individuals that are more than 50 years old today
at 12:00PM
And ouf course about TimeZones (why sometimes I insert one date and
get out another ;-p)
And of course mention that mostly it is not PostgreSQL's problem but
just a very hairy subject ;(
And perhaps some discussion about Date/Time types also in the section
for programming languages (what you get from date field, how to be
sure that what you give to postgresql is understood correctly)
> The most important thing is to have alot of samples.
> Practical samples are more useful than just syntax.
Agreed.
Maybe "Advanced SQL Commands" could also contain:
* Outer Joins
* Casts (bot AS and ::, with some explanations on why and when)
Not sure if Views and Triggers should go under Uniqe features - they are
supported on most commercial SQL databases.
"Interfacing to the POSTGRESQL Database" could also contain more options
than PHP,
at least as references - there are much more of both established (CGI,
PyApache,mod_perl)
and emerging (like the recent pgxml announcement) technologies for that
purpos.
Server side programming should also mention PL/Tcl
Under which section would requirements the restrictions (db size, field
size/count, record size/count)
or lackof them :) go?
(I recently checked Oracle8i for Linux, and it quoted 128MB RAM as
minimum and 256
as recommended - I think we are a lot less demanding, I guess PG can
reasonably run in 16MB ?)
-----------------
Hannu
> Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > New version attached. No PDF version this time. Do people like PDF? > There could be also a chapter on client side tools - pgAccess et.al. and also small (but working ;) examples for using ODBC from MS Access, MS Query, Delphi, JBuilder, Visual Cafe - each about 2-5 pages to get people started. -------------- Hannu
On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Vince Vielhaber wrote: > > On 13-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Frankly, if I can get away with having whole sections that point to URL > > files, so much the better. If I can just point them to the INSTALL > > file, and be done with it, great. > > The installation can be quick and painless. I'll explain more tomorrow. Ok it's tomorrow. This will apply mainly to the actual installation process, but will also apply to the instructions for the book. 1) Add to configure: --with-postgres-user= and --with-postgres-group= with the default being postgres:postgres. 2) When generating the makefiles, use the -g and -o parameters to install. These, of course, will come from configure. At this point, anyone can build PostgreSQL, but only root and the postgres user can install it. Either way, the ownership will be correct since we added the -g and -o to install during the configuration process. Currently, the only difference between the way I do it and the above is that I override INSTALL in Makefile.custom (which I believe Tom Lockhart tipped me off to). I build as myself and use sudo to install (as many other admins also do). 3) gmake 4) gmake install (or sudo gmake install) Alternately, steps 3 and 4 can be done this way: 3a) gmake > gmake.out 2>&1 & tail -f gmake.out 4a) gmake install >> gmake.out 2>&1 & tail -f gmake.out But I don't usually bother. The final step may not be necessary if steps 1 and 2 are done right. I do it just to make sure the directories have the right permissions: 5) cd /usr/local (or whatever the directory is just below postgres') chown -R postgres:postgres pgsql (substitute asnecessary). Then do whatever initdb's and createdb's etc as necessary/desired. Even doing step 5 (and doing the custom makefile), on a 450 P-III running FreeBSD 3.2-RELEASE, I have the entire system installed and running in about 20-30 minutes. So how's that? There may be some minor differences between systems, I seem to recall HP having some with install(1), but I believe there was a workaround script that fixed it for most things called bsd.install or something like that. I'll verify HPs install on systems from 8-10.2 later this mourning - think I have a couple SGIs I can check too. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include <std/disclaimers.h> Have you seenhttp://www.pop4.net? Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ==========================================================================
[Charset KOI8-R unsupported, filtering to ASCII...] > > On 13-Oct-99 Vince Vielhaber wrote: > > > > On 13-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote: > > 2BOOK Authors: > Please, try to keep rights for translating this book into another > languages by you self, not by publisher. > > > I may ask some St.Pitersburg's publishing company > to make russian translation of this book, but some publishers > like O'Reilly have too hard license policy > and too long reaction time. Actually, I want to make sure the book is accessible on the web. I will keep your translation idea in mind. Good point. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
[Charset KOI8-R unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
>
> On 13-Oct-99 Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> >
> > On 13-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
>
> 2BOOK Authors:
> Please, try to keep rights for translating this book into another
> languages by you self, not by publisher.
>
>
> I may ask some St.Pitersburg's publishing company
> to make russian translation of this book, but some publishers
> like O'Reilly have too hard license policy
> and too long reaction time.
>
FYI, I just did bibliography, and got:
(a) The Practical SQL Handbook, Bowman et al., Addison Wesley
(b) Web Development with PHP and PostgreSQL, \ldots{}, Addison Wesley
(c) A Guide to The SQL Standard, C.J. Date, Addison Wesley
(d) An Introduction to Database Systems, C.J. Date, Addison Wesley
(e) SQL For Smarties, Joe Celko, Morgan, Kaufmann
Looks like Addision Wesley is the winner.
--
Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
+ If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
+ Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
> And perhaps some discussion about Date/Time types also in the section > for programming languages (what you get from date field, how to be > sure that what you give to postgresql is understood correctly) > > > The most important thing is to have alot of samples. > > Practical samples are more useful than just syntax. > > Agreed. > > Maybe "Advanced SQL Commands" could also contain: > > * Outer Joins But we don't have them yet. > * Casts (bot AS and ::, with some explanations on why and when) > > Not sure if Views and Triggers should go under Uniqe features - they are > supported on most commercial SQL databases. Yes, I know, but Triggers are specific to the database, and I guess I have to move views to the other section. > > "Interfacing to the POSTGRESQL Database" could also contain more options > than PHP, > at least as references - there are much more of both established (CGI, > PyApache,mod_perl) That's probably too advanced for this book. Not sure how much detail I am going to give each interface anyway. Probably just two examples of each. > and emerging (like the recent pgxml announcement) technologies for that > purpos. > > Server side programming should also mention PL/Tcl > Added. > Under which section would requirements the restrictions (db size, field > size/count, record size/count) > or lackof them :) go? Under Administration, or Installation. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
> > > > Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > > > New version attached. No PDF version this time. Do people like PDF? > > > > There could be also a chapter on client side tools - pgAccess et.al. > and also small (but working ;) examples for using ODBC from MS Access, > MS Query, Delphi, JBuilder, Visual Cafe - each about 2-5 pages to get > people started. I wasn't sure where to put pgaccess. I will add it to interfaces. The others are probably better left to another book, Interfaces PostgreSQL to PC's. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > And perhaps some discussion about Date/Time types also in the section > > for programming languages (what you get from date field, how to be > > sure that what you give to postgresql is understood correctly) > > > > > The most important thing is to have alot of samples. > > > Practical samples are more useful than just syntax. > > > > Agreed. > > > > Maybe "Advanced SQL Commands" could also contain: > > > > * Outer Joins > > But we don't have them yet. Yes, but we will (or should) by the time the book comes out. Vince. -- ========================================================================== Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH email: vev@michvhf.com flame-mail: /dev/null # include <std/disclaimers.h> Have you seen http://www.pop4.net? Online Campground Directory http://www.camping-usa.com Online Giftshop Superstore http://www.cloudninegifts.com ==========================================================================
> > 2BOOK Authors:
> > Please, try to keep rights for translating this book into another
> > languages by you self, not by publisher.
> >
> >
> > I may ask some St.Pitersburg's publishing company
> > to make russian translation of this book, but some publishers
> > like O'Reilly have too hard license policy
> > and too long reaction time.
>
> Actually, I want to make sure the book is accessible on the web. I will
> keep your translation idea in mind. Good point.
What about translating the regular docs first? Are you planning on using a
lot of the existing documentation for the book? Perhaps one could organize
the distributed documentation as a sort of abridged version of the
official book, similar to what is being done with Perl. Just an idea.
And what kind of timespan did you have in mind?
I had the insane plan of providing a German documentation (at least the
User's Guide) in time for 7.0. (big market) On the other hand, I have lots
of insane plans ...
-Peter
> > Actually, I want to make sure the book is accessible on the web. I will > > keep your translation idea in mind. Good point. > > What about translating the regular docs first? Are you planning on using a > lot of the existing documentation for the book? Perhaps one could organize > the distributed documentation as a sort of abridged version of the > official book, similar to what is being done with Perl. Just an idea. > > And what kind of timespan did you have in mind? > > I had the insane plan of providing a German documentation (at least the > User's Guide) in time for 7.0. (big market) On the other hand, I have lots > of insane plans ... Not sure on a timespan. I think I could do most if it in one month if I did nothing else. My wife seems supportive of the idea. Not sure how to merge current documentation into it. I would like to point them to URL locations as much as possible. I thought if I give them enough to get started, and to understand how the current docs fit together, that would be good. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> Not sure how to merge current documentation into it. I would like to
> point them to URL locations as much as possible. I thought if I give
> them enough to get started, and to understand how the current docs fit
> together, that would be good.
Personally, I always think that computer books that point you to URLs to
get the complete information are less than desirable. The very point of
reading the book is that you don't have to get up to your computer all the
time. Books should be self-contained and add to the existing documentation
since otherwise I won't need it.
Also, think about the fact that the online documentation might change more
quickly than a book is published. In a magazine you can do that, but in a
book that's questionable. I have a few books that are only about two years
old and the information in them is still very valid, but the URLs with all
the examples and all don't work anymore. Who knows why, I don't have the
time to find out.
But the publishers are probably a lot smarter in that area than I am.
-Peter
> On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > Not sure how to merge current documentation into it. I would like to > > point them to URL locations as much as possible. I thought if I give > > them enough to get started, and to understand how the current docs fit > > together, that would be good. > > Personally, I always think that computer books that point you to URLs to > get the complete information are less than desirable. The very point of > reading the book is that you don't have to get up to your computer all the > time. Books should be self-contained and add to the existing documentation > since otherwise I won't need it. > > Also, think about the fact that the online documentation might change more > quickly than a book is published. In a magazine you can do that, but in a > book that's questionable. I have a few books that are only about two years > old and the information in them is still very valid, but the URLs with all > the examples and all don't work anymore. Who knows why, I don't have the > time to find out. > I just don't want to produce a 500 page book to cover these topics. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
>Here is my proposal for an outline for a PostgreSQL book. Many of us >have been asked by publishers about writing a book. Here is what I >think would be a good outline for the book. > >I am interested in whether this is a good outline for a PostgreSQL book, >how our existing documentation matches this outline, where our existing >documentation can be managed into a published book, etc. > >Any comments would be welcome. FYI, here is the table of contents from my PostgreSQL book published in Japan at the beginning of this year (I do not guarantee the accuracy of translation to English, however). Note that the second edition about to be released will contain many more topics including MVCC, transactions, views, rules, triggers... --- Tatsuo Ishii ----------------------------------------------------------- Chapter 1 Introduction to PostgreSQL 1.1 History of PostgreSQL 1.2 Advantages of PostgreSQL Chapter 2 Installation 2.1 Before installation 2.2 Preparing for installation 2.3 Compiling and installation 2.4 Setting your environment 2.5 Initialization 2.6 Adding users and creating database 2.7 Using psql 2.8 Security Chapter 3 Learning PostgreSQL 3.1 Processes and modules 3.2 Source tree 3.3 Data types 3.4 User defined functions 3.5 User defined operators 3.6 User defined types Chapter 4 Make applications 4.1 Tcl/Tk 4.2 C 4.3 PHP 4.4 Perl 4.5 Java Chapter 5 Tips for PostgreSQL 5.1 Backuping database 5.2 Benchmark tests 5.3 Performance tuning 5.4 Troubles shooting 5.5 New functionalities (while writing this book 6.4 was about to release) 5.6 Developers and future plans 5.7 Resources on the Internet Appendix Total pages: 309
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > I had the insane plan of providing a German documentation (at least the > User's Guide) in time for 7.0. (big market) On the other hand, I have lots > of insane plans ... Hi Peter, I translated the FAQ and Linux-FAQ to german recently. I consider to translate the online doc, too. But it is so much for one person, so I didn't started yet. What about a cooperation? (Warning: I really need some advices to set up my sgml system ;)) have fun! Karsten
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> > Maybe "Advanced SQL Commands" could also contain:
> >
> > * Outer Joins
>
> But we don't have them yet.
As someone else mentioned previously, due to time required to write,
publish and get this out on the shelf, shouldn't we be revolving this
around the upcoming v7 release, which I believe Thomas has Outer Joins
target'd for?
Marc G. Fournier ICQ#7615664 IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org
primary: scrappy@hub.org secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org
Hello, I just joined this list and am getting into the middle of this thread, but I did go back and read the archives. Just a few comments. To answer a previous question, I like PDFs. I like the approach that Bruce Eckel has taken to writing his last couple of books. It was somewhat of an opensource approach. He wrote the book and kept it on his site in PDF format and released regular updates based on either his additions to the book or corrections of errors and such by readers. It helped him to develop a good rapport with his audience. I do not believe the book being available on the web really impacted the sales of the published book that much. I know I printed one copy and purchased one copy. http://www.BruceEckel.com/ One thing to consider when writing the book is keeping it on target about PostgreSQL. I was browsing Amazon and SQL books and was reading about the MySQL book by O'Reilly. It got some really bad reviews based it being to general on databases and not specific about MySQL. Many said great db book, poor MySQL book. Read about it at, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565924347 . Their are many books which cover the basics of databases and database design and you list a few below. What is needed is a PostgreSQL book. Their will be overlap, but the emphasis should be on database development with PostgreSQL. That is what will differentiate it from others. Addison Wesley is an excellent publisher as is O'Reilly. I would recommend trying the above approach when writing the book and find a publisher friendly to the idea. Bruce's Thinking in Java was published by Prentice Hall. I don't know about any of the other publishers. Jimmie Houchin Bruce Momjian wrote: [snip] > FYI, I just did bibliography, and got: > > (a) The Practical SQL Handbook, Bowman et al., Addison Wesley > (b) Web Development with PHP and PostgreSQL, \ldots{}, Addison Wesley > (c) A Guide to The SQL Standard, C.J. Date, Addison Wesley > (d) An Introduction to Database Systems, C.J. Date, Addison Wesley > (e) SQL For Smarties, Joe Celko, Morgan, Kaufmann > > Looks like Addision Wesley is the winner. > > -- > Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle > maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 > + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue > + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026 > > ************
Bruce Momjian wrote: > Actually, I want to make sure the book is accessible on the web. I will > keep your translation idea in mind. Good point. Talk to Philip Greenspun. Morgan-Kaufman cut him a deal where his book, "Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing" is also available free on the web (http://photo.net/wtr/thebook). His e-mail is philg@mit.edu. And you gotta see the quality of his book! Amazon carries it. (although, I must say, some of his choices for pictures were a little over the top....) -- Lamar Owen WGCR Internet Radio Pisgah Forest, North Carolina 1 Peter 4:11
> On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > Maybe "Advanced SQL Commands" could also contain: > > > > > > * Outer Joins > > > > But we don't have them yet. > > As someone else mentioned previously, due to time required to write, > publish and get this out on the shelf, shouldn't we be revolving this > around the upcoming v7 release, which I believe Thomas has Outer Joins > target'd for? Yes, for 7.0, but no sense in writing stuff until it is completed. I don't even have WAL mentioned. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
> On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > > > I had the insane plan of providing a German documentation (at least the > > User's Guide) in time for 7.0. (big market) On the other hand, I have lots > > of insane plans ... > > Hi Peter, > > I translated the FAQ and Linux-FAQ to german recently. I consider to > translate the online doc, too. But it is so much for one person, so I > didn't started yet. What about a cooperation? > (Warning: I really need some advices to set up my sgml system ;)) I got sgmltools 2.0.1 and installed it on BSDI with no problems. Only issue was that I needed install GNU m4. See SGML docs for sgmltools install notes. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
Hello, I agree with your comments here. When I posted my message I had forgotten about Philip's book. Excellent book and website, photos, many are great and many are as you say "a little over the top". Based on his book which I learned about from his articles on LinuxWorld I have decided to deploy my website with AOLserver. I currently am planning to use PostgreSQL for the database. He does a great job of discussing how to develop excellent websites. Jimmie Houchin At 11:52 AM -0400 10/13/99, Lamar Owen wrote: >Bruce Momjian wrote: >> Actually, I want to make sure the book is accessible on the web. I will >> keep your translation idea in mind. Good point. > >Talk to Philip Greenspun. Morgan-Kaufman cut him a deal where his book, >"Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing" is also available free on >the web (http://photo.net/wtr/thebook). His e-mail is philg@mit.edu. > >And you gotta see the quality of his book! Amazon carries it. >(although, I must say, some of his choices for pictures were a little >over the top....) > >-- >Lamar Owen >WGCR Internet Radio >Pisgah Forest, North Carolina >1 Peter 4:11 > >************
> Hello, > > I just joined this list and am getting into the middle of this thread, > but I did go back and read the archives. > > Just a few comments. > > To answer a previous question, I like PDFs. > > I like the approach that Bruce Eckel has taken to writing his last > couple of books. It was somewhat of an opensource approach. He wrote the > book and kept it on his site in PDF format and released regular updates > based on either his additions to the book or corrections of errors and > such by readers. It helped him to develop a good rapport with his > audience. I do not believe the book being available on the web really > impacted the sales of the published book that much. I know I printed one > copy and purchased one copy. > http://www.BruceEckel.com/ Yes, I would like to do that, and the publisher I was talking to today seemed to think it was fine. He said it helps sell books. I would be very unhappy if the book could not be put on the web. In fact, he is subscribed to the hackers list, so he may be reading this. > One thing to consider when writing the book is keeping it on target > about PostgreSQL. I was browsing Amazon and SQL books and was reading > about the MySQL book by O'Reilly. It got some really bad reviews based > it being to general on databases and not specific about MySQL. Many said > great db book, poor MySQL book. > Read about it at, http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1565924347 . Good point. I will keep it in mind. > Their are many books which cover the basics of databases and database > design and you list a few below. What is needed is a PostgreSQL book. > Their will be overlap, but the emphasis should be on database > development with PostgreSQL. That is what will differentiate it from > others. Good. And I will show actual PostgreSQL examples in the book, with PostgreSQL output from psql, etc. > Addison Wesley is an excellent publisher as is O'Reilly. I would > recommend trying the above approach when writing the book and find a > publisher friendly to the idea. Bruce's Thinking in Java was published > by Prentice Hall. I don't know about any of the other publishers. Yes, I am a big Addison Wesley fan. I realized this when I found most of the books I like were from them. I am not a big O'Reilly fan, though I have a few of their books. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
> Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Actually, I want to make sure the book is accessible on the web. I will > > keep your translation idea in mind. Good point. > > Talk to Philip Greenspun. Morgan-Kaufman cut him a deal where his book, > "Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing" is also available free on > the web (http://photo.net/wtr/thebook). His e-mail is philg@mit.edu. > > And you gotta see the quality of his book! Amazon carries it. > (although, I must say, some of his choices for pictures were a little > over the top....) Again, having it on the web will be done. No better way to have it available to everyone, and it helps sell books, and the publisher thinks that is fine. Morgan-Kaufmann is good, but I don't have many of their books. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> writes: > PostgreSQL Book Proposal > > Bruce Momjian [...] > 4. > Advanced SQL Commands [...] > 6. > Interfacing to the POSTGRESQL Database > (a) > C Language API > (b) > Embedded C > (c) > C++ > (d) > JAVA > (e) > ODBC > (f) > PERL > (g) > TCL/TK > (h) > PYTHON > (i) > Web access (PHP) > (j) > Server-side programming (PLPGSQL and SPI) Isn't (j) logically part of chapter 4? (Or 5, if it's PostgreSQL specific.) Or am I completely confused? (Where can I read about PLPGSQL and/or SPI, other than in the forthcoming book?) If it came to a choice between having very short sections in chapter 6, and having two or three of them covered in more depth, I'd go for the latter. (Of course, you'll inevitably choose two or three which don't match what many readers will want (whichever two or three you choose), but even so, I think I'd get more out of a reasonably thorough coverage of a couple of languages that I won't use than superficial coverage of all of them which doesn't really reveal anything useful.)
> Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> writes: > > > PostgreSQL Book Proposal > > > > Bruce Momjian > > [...] > > > 4. > > Advanced SQL Commands > > [...] > > > > 6. > > Interfacing to the POSTGRESQL Database > > (a) > > C Language API > > (b) > > Embedded C > > (c) > > C++ > > (d) > > JAVA > > (e) > > ODBC > > (f) > > PERL > > (g) > > TCL/TK > > (h) > > PYTHON > > (i) > > Web access (PHP) > > (j) > > Server-side programming (PLPGSQL and SPI) > > Isn't (j) logically part of chapter 4? (Or 5, if it's PostgreSQL > specific.) Or am I completely confused? (Where can I read about > PLPGSQL and/or SPI, other than in the forthcoming book?) > > If it came to a choice between having very short sections in chapter > 6, and having two or three of them covered in more depth, I'd go for > the latter. Not sure. They are properly 'programming' to me, so I put them there. They address a similar programmatic need in the database. > (Of course, you'll inevitably choose two or three which don't match > what many readers will want (whichever two or three you choose), but > even so, I think I'd get more out of a reasonably thorough coverage of > a couple of languages that I won't use than superficial coverage of > all of them which doesn't really reveal anything useful.) I was going to do a newbie thing and show the advantages of each one. Not sure I want to go into great depth on any of them. Just enough to get people started, and using the documentation. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
Bruce Stephens wrote: > > Bruce Momjian <maillist@candle.pha.pa.us> writes: > > > PostgreSQL Book Proposal > > > > Bruce Momjian > > [...] > > > 4. > > Advanced SQL Commands > > [...] > > > 6. > > Interfacing to the POSTGRESQL Database > > (a) > > C Language API > > (b) > > Embedded C > > (c) > > C++ > > (d) > > JAVA > > (e) > > ODBC > > (f) > > PERL > > (g) > > TCL/TK > > (h) > > PYTHON > > (i) > > Web access (PHP) > > (j) > > Server-side programming (PLPGSQL and SPI) > > Isn't (j) logically part of chapter 4? (Or 5, if it's PostgreSQL > specific.) Or am I completely confused? (Where can I read about > PLPGSQL and/or SPI, other than in the forthcoming book?) > > If it came to a choice between having very short sections in chapter > 6, and having two or three of them covered in more depth, I'd go for > the latter. > > (Of course, you'll inevitably choose two or three which don't match > what many readers will want (whichever two or three you choose), but > even so, I think I'd get more out of a reasonably thorough coverage of > a couple of languages that I won't use than superficial coverage of > all of them which doesn't really reveal anything useful.) > > ************ I second this opinion.
Last night Marc and i picked up
Object Relation DBMS
Michael Stonebraker & Paul Brown
Pub: Morgan Kaufman
ISBN 1 55860 452 9
It was reccommented by a potential client, i'll put up
a review when i finish it.
Jeff
On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:
> [Charset KOI8-R unsupported, filtering to ASCII...]
> >
> > On 13-Oct-99 Vince Vielhaber wrote:
> > >
> > > On 13-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote:
> >
> > 2BOOK Authors:
> > Please, try to keep rights for translating this book into another
> > languages by you self, not by publisher.
> >
> >
> > I may ask some St.Pitersburg's publishing company
> > to make russian translation of this book, but some publishers
> > like O'Reilly have too hard license policy
> > and too long reaction time.
> >
>
> FYI, I just did bibliography, and got:
>
> (a) The Practical SQL Handbook, Bowman et al., Addison Wesley
> (b) Web Development with PHP and PostgreSQL, \ldots{}, Addison Wesley
> (c) A Guide to The SQL Standard, C.J. Date, Addison Wesley
> (d) An Introduction to Database Systems, C.J. Date, Addison Wesley
> (e) SQL For Smarties, Joe Celko, Morgan, Kaufmann
>
> Looks like Addision Wesley is the winner.
>
>
> --
> Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle
> maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000
> + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue
> + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
>
> ************
>
Jeff MacDonald
jeff@hub.org
===================================================================
So long as the Universe had a beginning, we can suppose it had a
creator, but if the Universe is completly self contained , having
no boundry or edge, it would neither be created nor destroyed
It would simply be.
===================================================================
> Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Actually, I want to make sure the book is accessible on the web. I will > > keep your translation idea in mind. Good point. > > Talk to Philip Greenspun. Morgan-Kaufman cut him a deal where his book, > "Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing" is also available free on > the web (http://photo.net/wtr/thebook). His e-mail is philg@mit.edu. I have this from Addison Wesley. It is online now. > And you gotta see the quality of his book! Amazon carries it. > (although, I must say, some of his choices for pictures were a little > over the top....) Much thanks for sending me this suggestion. I read it at: http://photo.net/wtr/dead-trees/story.html First, it is very long, so let me give you a quick summary. He did his first book for MacMillan, which is like Sams, Waite, etc. Basically your fat book for dummies, and had a pretty terrible experience. You have to read it to appreciate it. This reminds me of Thomas's comment that we need a good, quality publisher for our books. If the first book that came out on PostgreSQL was "PostgreSQL for Dummies", Marc would have a fit. And I have seen him in fits -- it is not pretty. He did his second book for Morgan Kaufmann, who is a quality publisher like Addison Wesley. Totally different experience, and a different quality book. This is required reading for anyone who is interested in the book writing experience or is considering writing a book. People, we need to stay with the quality publishers, if possible. I am sure there will be a "PostgreSQL Unleashed" book one day, with tons of graphic arrows and very little content, but let's put it off as long as we can. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
If I may add.. I would highly recommend that you all read Phil Greenspun's story about his experience in publishing his book with MacMillan. Read between the lines, however. Where ever reference is made to MacMillan you could substitue almost <any publisher>. Greenspun is a great story teller so the material is a good read. I'm sure he embellished a lot on his experiences. He strikes me as being a puckish kind of guy, somewhat rare amongst engineers. Read some of his other material. A Day at the Zoo is a good one. Paul Paul W. Becker Addison Wesley Longman 671 Andover Road Valley Cottage, NY 10989 914-268-8003 (v) 914-268-3874 (f) Assistant: Ross Venables 781-944-3700 x2501 -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Momjian [mailto:maillist@candle.pha.pa.us] Sent: Wednesday, October 20, 1999 11:49 PM To: Lamar Owen Cc: Dmitry Samersoff; Vince Vielhaber; Oliver Elphick; PostgreSQL-documentation; "PostgreSQL-development"@candle.pha.pa.us; pgsql-hackers@postgreSQL.org; Jan Wieck Subject: Re: [DOCS] Re: [HACKERS] Outline for PostgreSQL book > Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Actually, I want to make sure the book is accessible on the web. I will > > keep your translation idea in mind. Good point. > > Talk to Philip Greenspun. Morgan-Kaufman cut him a deal where his book, > "Philip and Alex's Guide to Web Publishing" is also available free on > the web (http://photo.net/wtr/thebook). His e-mail is philg@mit.edu. I have this from Addison Wesley. It is online now. > And you gotta see the quality of his book! Amazon carries it. > (although, I must say, some of his choices for pictures were a little > over the top....) Much thanks for sending me this suggestion. I read it at: http://photo.net/wtr/dead-trees/story.html First, it is very long, so let me give you a quick summary. He did his first book for MacMillan, which is like Sams, Waite, etc. Basically your fat book for dummies, and had a pretty terrible experience. You have to read it to appreciate it. This reminds me of Thomas's comment that we need a good, quality publisher for our books. If the first book that came out on PostgreSQL was "PostgreSQL for Dummies", Marc would have a fit. And I have seen him in fits -- it is not pretty. He did his second book for Morgan Kaufmann, who is a quality publisher like Addison Wesley. Totally different experience, and a different quality book. This is required reading for anyone who is interested in the book writing experience or is considering writing a book. People, we need to stay with the quality publishers, if possible. I am sure there will be a "PostgreSQL Unleashed" book one day, with tons of graphic arrows and very little content, but let's put it off as long as we can. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
Paul Becker wrote: > a good read. I'm sure he embellished a lot on his experiences. He strikes > me as being a puckish kind of guy, somewhat rare amongst engineers. Read > some of his other material. A Day at the Zoo is a good one. And "Travels with Samantha" is a hoot. His coding style is very similar to his writing style -- lispish. But, then again, he's an old-hand MIT LISP hacker. You should read his tcl one day -- I've laughed till I've cried over some of his code. (I don't know if that's more of a statement about his coding style, or about my reading habits.....) Philip is certainly an interesting writer. Oh, BTW, Bruce, "You're Welcome." Lamar Owen WGCR Internet Radio 1 Peter 4:11
> Paul Becker wrote: > > a good read. I'm sure he embellished a lot on his experiences. He strikes > > me as being a puckish kind of guy, somewhat rare amongst engineers. Read > > some of his other material. A Day at the Zoo is a good one. > > And "Travels with Samantha" is a hoot. His coding style is very similar > to his writing style -- lispish. But, then again, he's an old-hand MIT > LISP hacker. You should read his tcl one day -- I've laughed till I've > cried over some of his code. (I don't know if that's more of a > statement about his coding style, or about my reading habits.....) > > Philip is certainly an interesting writer. Yes, he was interesting. He clearly caused some of his own problems with MacMillan, and I agreed with MacMillan on a number of issues. What I found interesting is something I had suspected for quite some time. I found that I have some great computer books, but when I go to the computer section of a book store, most books there are junk. Then I ordered Knuth's "Art of Computer Programming" directly from Addison Wesley, and I started receiving their quarterly book bulletins. I said, "Hey, I read that book, and that one, and that one..." I realized that most of my books are from a handful of book publishers, Addison Wesley being the most popular in my bookshelf. Basically, I realized that not all the publishers are the same. Some produce quality, and others take a much more marketing slant in book production, usually producing poor quality books. One of the reasons I am posting this to the list is so people considering book writing ( and I know some publishers have been lurking in the past months), be careful who you sign with. It can affect your whole outlook on the process, and in the end, it is your name that is on the cover of the book, not the publisher. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
> Dmitry Samersoff wrote: > > > > On 13-Oct-99 Vince Vielhaber wrote: > > > > > > On 13-Oct-99 Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > 2BOOK Authors: > > Please, try to keep rights for translating this book into another > > languages by you self, not by publisher. > > > > I may ask some St.Pitersburg's publishing company > > to make russian translation of this book, but some publishers > > like O'Reilly have too hard license policy > > and too long reaction time. > > > > I may ask some Indonesian's publishing company to make > Indonesian translation of this book too. > I may help the translation from English to Indonesian language. Addison-Wesley does a lot of foreign rights sales. Let me know when you want information. -- Bruce Momjian | http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026