Обсуждение: pgAdmin 4 1.0-beta4 - Query Tool, Select file popup issues

Hi,

If this is not the correct place for pgAdmin 4 feedback, please let me 
know. I am trying to switch to pgAdmin 4, even though its beta, because 
pgAdmin 3 often crashes, and I lose work - I see that is a known issue, 
but am not sure if a fix is in progress?

Anyway, in pgAdmin 4, I have noticed the following when Opening a File 
in Query Tool:

- Clicking the icon to open the "Select file" popup is very slow 
(Windows 10). >3 seconds for pgAdmin4 wheras <1 second for pgAdmin 3.

- I am presented with a list of directories, but no idea which 
drive/directory I'm already in (e.g. C:\) and no obvious way to switch 
to my other drives where the files I want are located. I can't edit the 
file path directly to change this. This makes pgAdmin 4 unworkable for 
me currently. Beta 1 did allow directory changes.

- Only the first 10 characters of filenames are shown even though 
there's much more space available. This means I can't distinguish 
between a lot of the files I need to.

- When viewed as a tables, the order of directories seems random - not 
by name, size or date, and ordering by those columns doesn't work

I appreciate the preference for a consistent look and feel, but the 
native Windows Open File dialog (as used in pgAdmin 3) seems quicker and 
more fully featured e.g. I can rename and move files and directories 
within it. Perhaps it doesn't work with the new web based paradigm though.

I appreciate the work you are doing,

Regards,
Mark

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Mark Lascelles <mark@lascell.es> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If this is not the correct place for pgAdmin 4 feedback, please let me know.
> I am trying to switch to pgAdmin 4, even though its beta, because pgAdmin 3
> often crashes, and I lose work - I see that is a known issue, but am not
> sure if a fix is in progress?
>
> Anyway, in pgAdmin 4, I have noticed the following when Opening a File in
> Query Tool:
>
> - Clicking the icon to open the "Select file" popup is very slow (Windows
> 10). >3 seconds for pgAdmin4 wheras <1 second for pgAdmin 3.
>
> - I am presented with a list of directories, but no idea which
> drive/directory I'm already in (e.g. C:\) and no obvious way to switch to my
> other drives where the files I want are located. I can't edit the file path
> directly to change this. This makes pgAdmin 4 unworkable for me currently.
> Beta 1 did allow directory changes.
>
> - Only the first 10 characters of filenames are shown even though there's
> much more space available. This means I can't distinguish between a lot of
> the files I need to.
>
> - When viewed as a tables, the order of directories seems random - not by
> name, size or date, and ordering by those columns doesn't work
>
> I appreciate the preference for a consistent look and feel, but the native
> Windows Open File dialog (as used in pgAdmin 3) seems quicker and more fully
> featured e.g. I can rename and move files and directories within it. Perhaps
> it doesn't work with the new web based paradigm though.
>
> I appreciate the work you are doing,

Hi

It uses it's own dialogue because it has to work with file storage
either on the local machine in desktop mode, or on the server if
running in server mode. You can control the root of the storage area
by specifying a path in the config_local.py file - this is the
default:

##########################################################################
# Storage Manager storage url config settings
# If user sets STORAGE_DIR to empty it will show all volumes if platform
# is Windows, '/' if it is Linux, Mac or any other unix type system.

# For example:
# 1. STORAGE_DIR = get_drive("C") or get_drive() # return C:/ by default
# where C can be any drive character such as "D", "E", "G" etc
# 2. Set path manually like
# STORAGE_DIR = "/path/to/directory/"
##########################################################################
STORAGE_DIR = os.path.join(   DATA_DIR,   'storage'
)

In desktop mode, you should have access to all filesystems.

-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

<div dir="ltr"><span style="font-size:12.8px">Where is config_local.py located on OS X and Windows?</span><br
/></div><divclass="gmail_extra"><br /><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Dave Page <span
dir="ltr"><<ahref="mailto:dpage@pgadmin.org" target="_blank">dpage@pgadmin.org</a>></span> wrote:<br
/><blockquoteclass="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">On Fri, Sep 2,
2016at 12:03 PM, Mark Lascelles <<a href="mailto:mark@lascell.es">mark@lascell.es</a>> wrote:<br /> > Hi,<br
/>><br /> > If this is not the correct place for pgAdmin 4 feedback, please let me know.<br /> > I am trying
toswitch to pgAdmin 4, even though its beta, because pgAdmin 3<br /> > often crashes, and I lose work - I see that
isa known issue, but am not<br /> > sure if a fix is in progress?<br /> ><br /> > Anyway, in pgAdmin 4, I have
noticedthe following when Opening a File in<br /> > Query Tool:<br /> ><br /> > - Clicking the icon to open
the"Select file" popup is very slow (Windows<br /> > 10). >3 seconds for pgAdmin4 wheras <1 second for pgAdmin
3.<br/> ><br /> > - I am presented with a list of directories, but no idea which<br /> > drive/directory I'm
alreadyin (e.g. C:\) and no obvious way to switch to my<br /> > other drives where the files I want are located. I
can'tedit the file path<br /> > directly to change this. This makes pgAdmin 4 unworkable for me currently.<br />
>Beta 1 did allow directory changes.<br /> ><br /> > - Only the first 10 characters of filenames are shown
eventhough there's<br /> > much more space available. This means I can't distinguish between a lot of<br /> > the
filesI need to.<br /> ><br /> > - When viewed as a tables, the order of directories seems random - not by<br />
>name, size or date, and ordering by those columns doesn't work<br /> ><br /> > I appreciate the preference
fora consistent look and feel, but the native<br /> > Windows Open File dialog (as used in pgAdmin 3) seems quicker
andmore fully<br /> > featured e.g. I can rename and move files and directories within it. Perhaps<br /> > it
doesn'twork with the new web based paradigm though.<br /> ><br /> > I appreciate the work you are doing,<br /><br
/>Hi<br /><br /> It uses it's own dialogue because it has to work with file storage<br /> either on the local machine
indesktop mode, or on the server if<br /> running in server mode. You can control the root of the storage area<br /> by
specifyinga path in the config_local.py file - this is the<br /> default:<br /><br />
##############################<wbr/>##############################<wbr />##############<br /> # Storage Manager storage
urlconfig settings<br /> # If user sets STORAGE_DIR to empty it will show all volumes if platform<br /> # is Windows,
'/'if it is Linux, Mac or any other unix type system.<br /><br /> # For example:<br /> # 1. STORAGE_DIR =
get_drive("C")or get_drive() # return C:/ by default<br /> # where C can be any drive character such as "D", "E", "G"
etc<br/> # 2. Set path manually like<br /> # STORAGE_DIR = "/path/to/directory/"<br />
##############################<wbr/>##############################<wbr />##############<br /> STORAGE_DIR =
os.path.join(<br/>     DATA_DIR,<br />     'storage'<br /> )<br /><br /> In desktop mode, you should have access to all
filesystems.<br/><span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br /> --<br /> Dave Page<br /> Blog: <a
href="http://pgsnake.blogspot.com"rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://pgsnake.blogspot.com</a><br /> Twitter:
@pgsnake<br/><br /> EnterpriseDB UK: <a href="http://www.enterprisedb.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.enterprisedb.com</a><br/> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company<br /><br /><br /> --<br /> Sent
viapgadmin-support mailing list (<a href="mailto:pgadmin-support@postgresql.org">pgadmin-support@postgresql.<wbr
/>org</a>)<br/> To make changes to your subscription:<br /><a href="http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgadmin-support"
rel="noreferrer"target="_blank">http://www.postgresql.org/<wbr />mailpref/pgadmin-support</a><br
/></font></span></blockquote></div><br/></div> 

On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Anthony DeBarros <adebarros@gmail.com> wrote:
> Where is config_local.py located on OS X and Windows?

In the web/ directory of the installation. In a Mac app bundle you'll
find that in Contents/Resources (right-click the bundle, and select
Show Package Contents).

You shouldn't need to modify the setting on a desktop installation -
but having said that, I don't actually see drives listed on my Windows
installation, only the folders at C:\. Ashesh; is there a Windows
issue here?

On Mac, there are no drives of course so it works fine here.

> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 8:39 AM, Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Mark Lascelles <mark@lascell.es> wrote:
>> > Hi,
>> >
>> > If this is not the correct place for pgAdmin 4 feedback, please let me
>> > know.
>> > I am trying to switch to pgAdmin 4, even though its beta, because
>> > pgAdmin 3
>> > often crashes, and I lose work - I see that is a known issue, but am not
>> > sure if a fix is in progress?
>> >
>> > Anyway, in pgAdmin 4, I have noticed the following when Opening a File
>> > in
>> > Query Tool:
>> >
>> > - Clicking the icon to open the "Select file" popup is very slow
>> > (Windows
>> > 10). >3 seconds for pgAdmin4 wheras <1 second for pgAdmin 3.
>> >
>> > - I am presented with a list of directories, but no idea which
>> > drive/directory I'm already in (e.g. C:\) and no obvious way to switch
>> > to my
>> > other drives where the files I want are located. I can't edit the file
>> > path
>> > directly to change this. This makes pgAdmin 4 unworkable for me
>> > currently.
>> > Beta 1 did allow directory changes.
>> >
>> > - Only the first 10 characters of filenames are shown even though
>> > there's
>> > much more space available. This means I can't distinguish between a lot
>> > of
>> > the files I need to.
>> >
>> > - When viewed as a tables, the order of directories seems random - not
>> > by
>> > name, size or date, and ordering by those columns doesn't work
>> >
>> > I appreciate the preference for a consistent look and feel, but the
>> > native
>> > Windows Open File dialog (as used in pgAdmin 3) seems quicker and more
>> > fully
>> > featured e.g. I can rename and move files and directories within it.
>> > Perhaps
>> > it doesn't work with the new web based paradigm though.
>> >
>> > I appreciate the work you are doing,
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> It uses it's own dialogue because it has to work with file storage
>> either on the local machine in desktop mode, or on the server if
>> running in server mode. You can control the root of the storage area
>> by specifying a path in the config_local.py file - this is the
>> default:
>>
>> ##########################################################################
>> # Storage Manager storage url config settings
>> # If user sets STORAGE_DIR to empty it will show all volumes if platform
>> # is Windows, '/' if it is Linux, Mac or any other unix type system.
>>
>> # For example:
>> # 1. STORAGE_DIR = get_drive("C") or get_drive() # return C:/ by default
>> # where C can be any drive character such as "D", "E", "G" etc
>> # 2. Set path manually like
>> # STORAGE_DIR = "/path/to/directory/"
>> ##########################################################################
>> STORAGE_DIR = os.path.join(
>>     DATA_DIR,
>>     'storage'
>> )
>>
>> In desktop mode, you should have access to all filesystems.
>>
>> --
>> Dave Page
>> Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
>> Twitter: @pgsnake
>>
>> EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via pgadmin-support mailing list (pgadmin-support@postgresql.org)
>> To make changes to your subscription:
>> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgadmin-support
>
>



-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 7:17 PM, Dave Page <span
dir="ltr"><<ahref="mailto:dpage@pgadmin.org" target="_blank">dpage@pgadmin.org</a>></span> wrote:<br /></div><div
class="gmail_extra"><divclass="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px
#cccsolid;padding-left:1ex">On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 1:46 PM, Anthony DeBarros <<a
href="mailto:adebarros@gmail.com">adebarros@gmail.com</a>>wrote:<br /> > Where is config_local.py located on OS X
andWindows?<br /><br /> In the web/ directory of the installation. In a Mac app bundle you'll<br /> find that in
Contents/Resources(right-click the bundle, and select<br /> Show Package Contents).<br /><br /> You shouldn't need to
modifythe setting on a desktop installation -<br /> but having said that, I don't actually see drives listed on my
Windows<br/> installation, only the folders at C:\. Ashesh; is there a Windows<br /> issue
here? </blockquote><blockquoteclass="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px
0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex"><div
class="gmail_default"style="font-size:small;display:inline">​I checked the code and found that​ this</div> is a
regressionof RM1397. ​I will fix i<div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:small;display:inline">​t​</div> and send
apatch.</blockquote><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc
solid;padding-left:1ex"><br/> On Mac, there are no drives of course so it works fine here.<br /><br /> > On Fri, Sep
2,2016 at 8:39 AM, Dave Page <<a href="mailto:dpage@pgadmin.org">dpage@pgadmin.org</a>> wrote:<br /> >><br
/>>> On Fri, Sep 2, 2016 at 12:03 PM, Mark Lascelles <<a href="mailto:mark@lascell.es">mark@lascell.es</a>>
wrote:<br/> >> > Hi,<br /> >> ><br /> >> > If this is not the correct place for pgAdmin 4
feedback,please let me<br /> >> > know.<br /> >> > I am trying to switch to pgAdmin 4, even though
itsbeta, because<br /> >> > pgAdmin 3<br /> >> > often crashes, and I lose work - I see that is a
knownissue, but am not<br /> >> > sure if a fix is in progress?<br /> >> ><br /> >> >
Anyway,in pgAdmin 4, I have noticed the following when Opening a File<br /> >> > in<br /> >> > Query
Tool:<br/> >> ><br /> >> > - Clicking the icon to open the "Select file" popup is very slow<br />
>>> (Windows<br /> >> > 10). >3 seconds for pgAdmin4 wheras <1 second for pgAdmin 3.<br />
>>><br /> >> > - I am presented with a list of directories, but no idea which<br /> >> >
drive/directoryI'm already in (e.g. C:\) and no obvious way to switch<br /> >> > to my<br /> >> >
otherdrives where the files I want are located. I can't edit the file<br /> >> > path<br /> >> >
directlyto change this. This makes pgAdmin 4 unworkable for me<br /> >> > currently.<br /> >> > Beta
1did allow directory changes.<br /> >> ><br /> >> > - Only the first 10 characters of filenames are
showneven though<br /> >> > there's<br /> >> > much more space available. This means I can't
distinguishbetween a lot<br /> >> > of<br /> >> > the files I need to.<br /> >> ><br />
>>> - When viewed as a tables, the order of directories seems random - not<br /> >> > by<br />
>>> name, size or date, and ordering by those columns doesn't work<br /> >> ><br /> >> > I
appreciatethe preference for a consistent look and feel, but the<br /> >> > native<br /> >> > Windows
OpenFile dialog (as used in pgAdmin 3) seems quicker and more<br /> >> > fully<br /> >> > featured
e.g.I can rename and move files and directories within it.<br /> >> > Perhaps<br /> >> > it doesn't
workwith the new web based paradigm though.<br /> >> ><br /> >> > I appreciate the work you are
doing,<br/> >><br /> >> Hi<br /> >><br /> >> It uses it's own dialogue because it has to work
withfile storage<br /> >> either on the local machine in desktop mode, or on the server if<br /> >> running
inserver mode. You can control the root of the storage area<br /> >> by specifying a path in the config_local.py
file- this is the<br /> >> default:<br /> >><br /> >> ##############################<wbr
/>##############################<wbr/>##############<br /> >> # Storage Manager storage url config settings<br />
>># If user sets STORAGE_DIR to empty it will show all volumes if platform<br /> >> # is Windows, '/' if it
isLinux, Mac or any other unix type system.<br /> >><br /> >> # For example:<br /> >> # 1.
STORAGE_DIR= get_drive("C") or get_drive() # return C:/ by default<br /> >> # where C can be any drive character
suchas "D", "E", "G" etc<br /> >> # 2. Set path manually like<br /> >> # STORAGE_DIR =
"/path/to/directory/"<br/> >> ##############################<wbr />##############################<wbr
/>##############<br/> >> STORAGE_DIR = os.path.join(<br /> >>     DATA_DIR,<br /> >>     'storage'<br
/>>> )<br /> >><br /> >> In desktop mode, you should have access to all filesystems.<br />
>><br/> >> --<br /> >> Dave Page<br /> >> Blog: <a href="http://pgsnake.blogspot.com"
rel="noreferrer"target="_blank">http://pgsnake.blogspot.com</a><br /> >> Twitter: @pgsnake<br /> >><br />
>>EnterpriseDB UK: <a href="http://www.enterprisedb.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.enterprisedb.com</a><br/> >> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company<br /> >><br />
>><br/> >> --<br /> >> Sent via pgadmin-support mailing list (<a
href="mailto:pgadmin-support@postgresql.org">pgadmin-support@postgresql.<wbr/>org</a>)<br /> >> To make changes
toyour subscription:<br /> >> <a href="http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgadmin-support" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.postgresql.org/<wbr/>mailpref/pgadmin-support</a><br /> ><br /> ><br /><span
class="HOEnZb"><fontcolor="#888888"><br /><br /><br /> --<br /> Dave Page<br /> Blog: <a
href="http://pgsnake.blogspot.com"rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://pgsnake.blogspot.com</a><br /> Twitter:
@pgsnake<br/><br /> EnterpriseDB UK: <a href="http://www.enterprisedb.com" rel="noreferrer"
target="_blank">http://www.enterprisedb.com</a><br/> The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company<br /><br /><br /> --<br /> Sent
viapgadmin-support mailing list (<a href="mailto:pgadmin-support@postgresql.org">pgadmin-support@postgresql.<wbr
/>org</a>)<br/> To make changes to your subscription:<br /><a href="http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgadmin-support"
rel="noreferrer"target="_blank">http://www.postgresql.org/<wbr />mailpref/pgadmin-support</a><br
/></font></span></blockquote></div><br/></div></div> 

Hello. I just started using pgAdmin 4, and first of all let me say it looks
very promising. Works much better on high DPI displays.

And I especially like that it is no longer affected so much by high latency
network connections. The old pgAdmin really struggled when the database was
on a different continent than the client computer. It seems pgAdmin III was
doing a lot of round trips over the network for some operations.

That being said, I think there is still room for improvement for the user
interface. In particular, I don't think replacing the native operating
system file open dialog was the greatest idea. This introduces a lot of
limitations, and even the stuff that works has some issues.

My greatest problem with the file dialog is that you can't paste a
file/folder path in it. Or copy the current path for that matter. Or type
the file path manually in any way.

Aside from the inconvenience of having to navigate manually, that means
that, on Windows, you can't open a file directly from a network share that
is not mapped to a drive letter. Or save it directly to a network share. Or
navigate to a network share folder, because you can't type a file path like
\\host\share\folder\folder\file.sql

Also you can't open a file directly from the web, because you can't enter
something like http://host/path/file.sql in the dialog box.

And finally, when navigating through the folders/drives using the current
version (1.0), double clicking on the folder/drive icons doesn't seem to
work. You have to double click on the folder name/drive name. Also the
dialog opens quite slowly.

So, in my opinion, if technically feasible, the decision to replace the
native OS file open dialog with a platform independent dialog should be
reversed. I think the problems it introduces outweigh any benefits.




--
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http://postgresql.nabble.com/pgAdmin-4-1-0-beta4-Query-Tool-Select-file-popup-issues-tp5919048p5927613.html
Sent from the PostgreSQL - pgadmin support mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

Hi

On Tue, Oct 25, 2016 at 7:22 PM, vnicolici <vladnc@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hello. I just started using pgAdmin 4, and first of all let me say it looks
> very promising. Works much better on high DPI displays.

Thanks.

> And I especially like that it is no longer affected so much by high latency
> network connections. The old pgAdmin really struggled when the database was
> on a different continent than the client computer. It seems pgAdmin III was
> doing a lot of round trips over the network for some operations.

That was one of the most important changes for us. Even if there is a
connection failure, recovery should be as seamless as possible.

> That being said, I think there is still room for improvement for the user
> interface. In particular, I don't think replacing the native operating
> system file open dialog was the greatest idea. This introduces a lot of
> limitations, and even the stuff that works has some issues.
>
> My greatest problem with the file dialog is that you can't paste a
> file/folder path in it. Or copy the current path for that matter. Or type
> the file path manually in any way.
>
> Aside from the inconvenience of having to navigate manually, that means
> that, on Windows, you can't open a file directly from a network share that
> is not mapped to a drive letter. Or save it directly to a network share. Or
> navigate to a network share folder, because you can't type a file path like
> \\host\share\folder\folder\file.sql
>
> Also you can't open a file directly from the web, because you can't enter
> something like http://host/path/file.sql in the dialog box.
>
> And finally, when navigating through the folders/drives using the current
> version (1.0), double clicking on the folder/drive icons doesn't seem to
> work. You have to double click on the folder name/drive name. Also the
> dialog opens quite slowly.
>
> So, in my opinion, if technically feasible, the decision to replace the
> native OS file open dialog with a platform independent dialog should be
> reversed. I think the problems it introduces outweigh any benefits.

I wouldn't be so sure about that :-/. There are various problems with
using native file dialogues - firstly, they won't work at all in
server mode where you actually need to browse the filesystem on the
server, not the client. Secondly, for security reasons browsers
(including webkit which is used in our desktop runtime) seriously
limit what can be done with files on the client. As a simple example,
if you edit a query that you loaded from a file in the query tool, you
couldn't just hit "Save" and carry on. You'd have to hit Save, then
use the native dialogue to download the file and save it. It would be
significantly more cumbersome.

So, I can't see us using native dialogues except in a few simple cases
where you really are downloading something (e.g. some query results).
However, I certainly do want us to improve the file management to
support features like you suggest.

-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

On 26.10.2016 10:58, Dave Page wrote:
> I wouldn't be so sure about that :-/. There are various problems with
> using native file dialogues - firstly, they won't work at all in
> server mode where you actually need to browse the filesystem on the
> server, not the client.
(...)
> So, I can't see us using native dialogues except in a few simple cases
> where you really are downloading something (e.g. some query results).
> However, I certainly do want us to improve the file management to
> support features like you suggest.

What server mode you mean? Doesn't sql file is intended to be loaded
into client app edit form from local machine? Server shouldn't be
involved into this process.
If making possible to open sql files from server space and storing them
onto server was a goal then to me it seems to be a misconception.

Another thing is using custom UI components which break user experience.
Applications should be designed to be seamless regarding look and usage
flow across operation system they run. For example file browser in image
editor should look and work the same way as in text or programming editor.

It all comes from best practices for UI design.

with regards
MK

On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 3:04 PM, Michal Kozusznik
<kozusznik.michal@ifortuna.cz> wrote:
> On 26.10.2016 10:58, Dave Page wrote:
>>
>> I wouldn't be so sure about that :-/. There are various problems with
>> using native file dialogues - firstly, they won't work at all in
>> server mode where you actually need to browse the filesystem on the
>> server, not the client.
>
> (...)
>>
>> So, I can't see us using native dialogues except in a few simple cases
>> where you really are downloading something (e.g. some query results).
>> However, I certainly do want us to improve the file management to
>> support features like you suggest.
>
>
> What server mode you mean?

pgAdmin server mode.

> Doesn't sql file is intended to be loaded into
> client app edit form from local machine? Server shouldn't be involved into
> this process.

No, in server mode storage is on the server.

> If making possible to open sql files from server space and storing them onto
> server was a goal then to me it seems to be a misconception.

Or a misunderstanding on your part on the goals of the project and
reasons for them.

> Another thing is using custom UI components which break user experience.
> Applications should be designed to be seamless regarding look and usage flow
> across operation system they run. For example file browser in image editor
> should look and work the same way as in text or programming editor.
>
> It all comes from best practices for UI design.

I agree. Except where it is not possible to do so, or in cases where
it could lead to an inconsistent UI experience.


-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

On 26.10.2016 16:15, Dave Page wrote:
>
> Or a misunderstanding on your part on the goals of the project and
> reasons for them.

So just list the reasons, please.
IMO there is no single reason to work with files stored on the server.
It could be even considered non-safe in some scenarios. It's enough to
work with client-side files. It's valid for local as well as remote work

>
> I agree. Except where it is not possible to do so, or in cases where
> it could lead to an inconsistent UI experience.
>
What do you mean by inconsistent UI experience? If you mean pgadmin
having different file browser appearance across various operating
systems then it's non-relevant argument. Goal should be to have
UI-consistent app in environment it's running under.

With client-app responsible for opening files approach, everything would
work out together.

with regards
MK

Reason to work with files stored on server: dump/backup file

Do you already worked with Microsoft SQL Server? If you do, then you know some things are more secure at server side than client side... IMHO...

2016-10-26 13:00 GMT-02:00 Michal Kozusznik <kozusznik.michal@ifortuna.cz>:

On 26.10.2016 16:15, Dave Page wrote:

Or a misunderstanding on your part on the goals of the project and
reasons for them.

So just list the reasons, please.
IMO there is no single reason to work with files stored on the server. It could be even considered non-safe in some scenarios. It's enough to work with client-side files. It's valid for local as well as remote work

I agree. Except where it is not possible to do so, or in cases where
it could lead to an inconsistent UI experience.

What do you mean by inconsistent UI experience? If you mean pgadmin having different file browser appearance across various operating systems then it's non-relevant argument. Goal should be to have UI-consistent app in environment it's running under.

With client-app responsible for opening files approach, everything would work out together.

with regards
MK



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On Wed, Oct 26, 2016 at 4:00 PM, Michal Kozusznik
<kozusznik.michal@ifortuna.cz> wrote:
> On 26.10.2016 16:15, Dave Page wrote:
>>
>>
>> Or a misunderstanding on your part on the goals of the project and
>> reasons for them.
>
>
> So just list the reasons, please.
> IMO there is no single reason to work with files stored on the server. It
> could be even considered non-safe in some scenarios. It's enough to work
> with client-side files. It's valid for local as well as remote work

Server based deployments, where multiple users manage servers from one
or more instances of pgAdmin.

>> I agree. Except where it is not possible to do so, or in cases where
>> it could lead to an inconsistent UI experience.
>>
> What do you mean by inconsistent UI experience? If you mean pgadmin having
> different file browser appearance across various operating systems then it's
> non-relevant argument. Goal should be to have UI-consistent app in
> environment it's running under.

I mean having to use our own dialogues in some places where native
ones cannot work, and native ones in other places.

> With client-app responsible for opening files approach, everything would
> work out together.

Except as I pointed out, we have little control over native dialogues
because web browsers have security concerns that cause them to limit
access to the client filesystem.

-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company

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On 26.10.2016 17:38, Dave Page wrote:
> Server based deployments, where multiple users manage servers from one
> or more instances of pgAdmin.

After reading your recent responses to various posts I think I'm
starting to understand that the issue lays in the main role pgAdmin4 is
designed for.
It seems, you want it to be server administrative tool while pgAdmin3 is
not for sure.

pgAdmin3 is db design tool more than administration one. Actually it has
nothing to do with administration. Ability to make ad-hoc backups or
vacuums doesn't make it 'administration tool'
It's just GUI extended SQL console. Developers love it just because it's
lightweight, fast and simple.

What I understood, you want pgAdmin4 to be more administration tool than
design/development tool. It's ok. However in my opinion it's not going
to work this way. Probably it will cover a very subset of administrative
functions which might be useful for beginners. In turn, pro
administrators will still use a console while pgAdmin4 as administration
tool will end up unused.
Let's get backup feature as example. IMO no one will use it in
production. It's because production requires more complex scenarios than
execute single command. Even storing backup files onto server (which
server file browsers are intended to help with) might be bad idea in
production. On the other hand it could be useful for developers but they
usually stores backup file onto local disk. So again: browsing server
filesystem is useless.

Mix of administration and development features wouldn't be bad at all,
if it doesn't negatively affect workflow of users belong to
developers/designers userbase. Unfortunately it's what happens right
now: pgAdmin4 is slow and stripped of some basic OS features as price of
being more server oriented.

I don't know if I'm expressing my self as clear as I want (language
barrier), but as you can see, people rise the same issue again and
again. All of them belongs to the same group: db developers/designers.
In my guess pgAdmin might loose great part of userbase, greater than is
able to acquire thanks to new functionality. Of course you can be OK
with it but for sure it doesn't seem to be win for anybody.

with regards
MK

On Thu, Oct 27, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Michal Kozusznik
<kozusznik.michal@ifortuna.cz> wrote:
> On 26.10.2016 17:38, Dave Page wrote:
>>
>> Server based deployments, where multiple users manage servers from one
>> or more instances of pgAdmin.
>
>
> After reading your recent responses to various posts I think I'm starting to
> understand that the issue lays in the main role pgAdmin4 is designed for.
> It seems, you want it to be server administrative tool while pgAdmin3 is not
> for sure.
>
> pgAdmin3 is db design tool more than administration one. Actually it has
> nothing to do with administration. Ability to make ad-hoc backups or vacuums
> doesn't make it 'administration tool'
> It's just GUI extended SQL console. Developers love it just because it's
> lightweight, fast and simple.
>
> What I understood, you want pgAdmin4 to be more administration tool than
> design/development tool. It's ok. However in my opinion it's not going to
> work this way. Probably it will cover a very subset of administrative
> functions which might be useful for beginners. In turn, pro administrators
> will still use a console while pgAdmin4 as administration tool will end up
> unused.
> Let's get backup feature as example. IMO no one will use it in production.
> It's because production requires more complex scenarios than execute single
> command. Even storing backup files onto server (which server file browsers
> are intended to help with) might be bad idea in production. On the other
> hand it could be useful for developers but they usually stores backup file
> onto local disk. So again: browsing server filesystem is useless.
>
> Mix of administration and development features wouldn't be bad at all, if it
> doesn't negatively affect workflow of users belong to developers/designers
> userbase. Unfortunately it's what happens right now: pgAdmin4 is slow and
> stripped of some basic OS features as price of being more server oriented.
>
> I don't know if I'm expressing my self as clear as I want (language
> barrier), but as you can see, people rise the same issue again and again.
> All of them belongs to the same group: db developers/designers. In my guess
> pgAdmin might loose great part of userbase, greater than is able to acquire
> thanks to new functionality. Of course you can be OK with it but for sure it
> doesn't seem to be win for anybody.

That is simply incorrect. pgAdmin 4 is aimed at exactly the same
audience as pgAdmin III - it just takes into account that more and
more people want a web based solution - so we aim to cater for both,
and in some cases, that means we have to do things in slightly
different ways.

This was not done on a whim - it was based on all manner of feedback
from users, as well as research into industry trends over a number of
years.

We have put over 15000 hours of development, QA, and doc writing time
into pgAdmin 4 and give it away for free. We're well aware there are
some rough edges and things that need improving; and fully intend to
put effort into doing so. Many of those issues only become apparent
when a product starts to be used in the field, and outside of our QA.

Ultimately though, we have a new product which frees us from much of
the technical debt in pgAdmin III (that caused many of the issues
you've complained of in the past that were very difficult to resolve),
and allows us the opportunity to vastly improve on what we had before.

pgAdmin remains Open Source, and whilst I wish I had another 10
developers to assign to it permanently, I simply don't so some things
will not get fixed or changed immediately. As is always the case
though, additional contributions are welcome. The best Open Source
projects are always the ones with a diverse set of contributors.

-- 
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake

EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company