Обсуждение: Please give pgAdmin 4 its own GUI. The constant password inputs aredriving me insane...
Every single day, even after getting rid of the "master password" nonsense (which was a nightmare in itself), pgAdmin keeps asking me, again and again, to enter the password when I try to connect to my servers. This is cleared every single time I clear my browser data, which is an absolute necessity multiple times a day.
I don't want pgAdmin to have anything to do with my browser, and dealing with multiple "profiles" is very impractical and tedious to set up. I don't want them connected whatsoever. Please make a proper GUI that is entirely separate from your "normal browser", allowing it to remember passwords and not constantly forget them because it's attached to your normal browser's data.
The GUI can be an embedded browser and has no need whatsoever for constant security updates because all it does is load pgAdmin 4's code. It doesn't need to be able to do anything else, nor should it be able to. It shouldn't even be apparent to the user that it's a browser at all -- it should just open a GUI window with pgAdmin 4 inside of it -- not rely on my browser environment.
I almost recall that this actually was done in the past. Why you would abandon this idea is inexplicable to me, since "just using the normal browser" causes so many annoying problems.
I'm curious to know where the need for the master password arose and whether it can be disabled or made optional. I don't believe it is needed for personal PCs, the OS login is enough protection.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 1:07 PM <tutiluren@tutanota.com> wrote:
Every single day, even after getting rid of the "master password" nonsense (which was a nightmare in itself), pgAdmin keeps asking me, again and again, to enter the password when I try to connect to my servers. This is cleared every single time I clear my browser data, which is an absolute necessity multiple times a day.I don't want pgAdmin to have anything to do with my browser, and dealing with multiple "profiles" is very impractical and tedious to set up. I don't want them connected whatsoever. Please make a proper GUI that is entirely separate from your "normal browser", allowing it to remember passwords and not constantly forget them because it's attached to your normal browser's data.The GUI can be an embedded browser and has no need whatsoever for constant security updates because all it does is load pgAdmin 4's code. It doesn't need to be able to do anything else, nor should it be able to. It shouldn't even be apparent to the user that it's a browser at all -- it should just open a GUI window with pgAdmin 4 inside of it -- not rely on my browser environment.I almost recall that this actually was done in the past. Why you would abandon this idea is inexplicable to me, since "just using the normal browser" causes so many annoying problems.
Re: Please give pgAdmin 4 its own GUI. The constant password inputsare driving me insane...
От
Khushboo Vashi
Дата:
Hi,
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 1:51 PM Avin Kavish <avinkavish@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm curious to know where the need for the master password arose and whether it can be disabled or made optional. I don't believe it is needed for personal PCs, the OS login is enough protection.
Please refer https://www.pgadmin.org/docs/pgadmin4/4.10/master_password.html to disable to the master password.
Thanks,
Khushboo
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 1:07 PM <tutiluren@tutanota.com> wrote:Every single day, even after getting rid of the "master password" nonsense (which was a nightmare in itself), pgAdmin keeps asking me, again and again, to enter the password when I try to connect to my servers. This is cleared every single time I clear my browser data, which is an absolute necessity multiple times a day.I don't want pgAdmin to have anything to do with my browser, and dealing with multiple "profiles" is very impractical and tedious to set up. I don't want them connected whatsoever. Please make a proper GUI that is entirely separate from your "normal browser", allowing it to remember passwords and not constantly forget them because it's attached to your normal browser's data.The GUI can be an embedded browser and has no need whatsoever for constant security updates because all it does is load pgAdmin 4's code. It doesn't need to be able to do anything else, nor should it be able to. It shouldn't even be apparent to the user that it's a browser at all -- it should just open a GUI window with pgAdmin 4 inside of it -- not rely on my browser environment.I almost recall that this actually was done in the past. Why you would abandon this idea is inexplicable to me, since "just using the normal browser" causes so many annoying problems.
Re: Please give pgAdmin 4 its own GUI. The constant password inputsare driving me insane...
От
richard coleman
Дата:
Avin,
I agree, the master password nonsense was poorly implemented. I too wish the developers would rethink it. Until then there is a way to disable it by setting an option in a config file. I can provide more details if you would like (or you could look for other more expansive posts by myself on this topic in the list archives).
pgAdmin4 should save your connection passwords in an internal database (separate from the browser) there's a 'save password' option when you are setting up a connection. If that isn't working, you should submit a bug.
If you want to do away with the need for passwords, you can do that at the postgreSQL level by either setting your database to trust the ip address that you are connecting from (in the pg_hba.conf file), or connecting via another means such as SSL.
I hope that helps,
rik.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 4:21 AM Avin Kavish <avinkavish@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm curious to know where the need for the master password arose and whether it can be disabled or made optional. I don't believe it is needed for personal PCs, the OS login is enough protection.On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 1:07 PM <tutiluren@tutanota.com> wrote:Every single day, even after getting rid of the "master password" nonsense (which was a nightmare in itself), pgAdmin keeps asking me, again and again, to enter the password when I try to connect to my servers. This is cleared every single time I clear my browser data, which is an absolute necessity multiple times a day.I don't want pgAdmin to have anything to do with my browser, and dealing with multiple "profiles" is very impractical and tedious to set up. I don't want them connected whatsoever. Please make a proper GUI that is entirely separate from your "normal browser", allowing it to remember passwords and not constantly forget them because it's attached to your normal browser's data.The GUI can be an embedded browser and has no need whatsoever for constant security updates because all it does is load pgAdmin 4's code. It doesn't need to be able to do anything else, nor should it be able to. It shouldn't even be apparent to the user that it's a browser at all -- it should just open a GUI window with pgAdmin 4 inside of it -- not rely on my browser environment.I almost recall that this actually was done in the past. Why you would abandon this idea is inexplicable to me, since "just using the normal browser" causes so many annoying problems.
Re: Please give pgAdmin 4 its own GUI. The constant password inputsare driving me insane...
От
richard coleman
Дата:
Dave,
There is no attack of any kind in that post. I am sympathizing with Avin. While I agree that there are use cases where a master password feature makes sense, I disagree that it is the majority of cases, or even applicable to the majority of users. Therefore I believe that it is implemented poorly. If history is any guide there will be plenty more users stumbling across this list frustrated and just wanting to know how to 'get rid of' or simply 'turn it off'.
So where I wrote sympathy and solutions, you choose to see attacks. I think that says more about you than about myself.
If the pgAdmin developers want nothing but praise and the occasional sterile bug report they should probably stop reading, or shut down this list. After all, a link to the redmine bug report page would suffice for the latter.
Whether writing commercial or open source software, paid or volunteer, some people are not going to agree with your choices or decisions (just as Linus). As long as we are criticizing the software and not the people writing it, the software and all of us, end up better for it.
I hope you take the time to think about what I've written,
rik.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 8:49 AM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:
Richard,--On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 1:08 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:Avin,I agree, the master password nonsense was poorly implemented. I too wish the developers would rethink it. Until then there is a way to disable it by setting an option in a config file. I can provide more details if you would like (or you could look for other more expansive posts by myself on this topic in the list archives).You've made your feelings known many times now, and we're all well aware of them - just as you are aware that there are legitimate security concerns that caused it to be implemented (that were raised by end users), ones that arguably warrant a medium level CVSS vulnerability score (CVSS:3.0/AV:L/AC:H/PR:N/UI:R/S:C/C:H/I:N/A:N), and other concerns such as allowing a network administrator to enforce security policy that led to the design.Please refrain from any further remarks that disparage the work of people who - in many cases, voluntarily - spend hundreds or thousands of hours of their time developing software that you get to use freely. Constructive feedback and better yet ideas or code are welcome always, but repeated negativity that is borderline ad hominem is not.
Guys I think we should take a breather on both sides, all I did was ask for clarification on why it was implemented. While I appreciate it, there's no need to sympathise with me, I don't have any feelings regarding it. Only that me as personal user does not need it. The original somewhat confrontational/ranty email was by someone else. Maybe replying to that was a bad idea since it may have set up the tone for the rest of the conversation.
I think corporate security needs to be prioritised over the slight inconvenience presented to personal users. I think it is okay to be enabled by default. Perhaps maybe a more convenient menu option to turn it off would be nice, (but I am not asking for it maybe I'll get around to it when I have the time.)
Peace ✌
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 6:56 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave,There is no attack of any kind in that post. I am sympathizing with Avin. While I agree that there are use cases where a master password feature makes sense, I disagree that it is the majority of cases, or even applicable to the majority of users. Therefore I believe that it is implemented poorly. If history is any guide there will be plenty more users stumbling across this list frustrated and just wanting to know how to 'get rid of' or simply 'turn it off'.So where I wrote sympathy and solutions, you choose to see attacks. I think that says more about you than about myself.If the pgAdmin developers want nothing but praise and the occasional sterile bug report they should probably stop reading, or shut down this list. After all, a link to the redmine bug report page would suffice for the latter.Whether writing commercial or open source software, paid or volunteer, some people are not going to agree with your choices or decisions (just as Linus). As long as we are criticizing the software and not the people writing it, the software and all of us, end up better for it.I hope you take the time to think about what I've written,rik.On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 8:49 AM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:Richard,--On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 1:08 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:Avin,I agree, the master password nonsense was poorly implemented. I too wish the developers would rethink it. Until then there is a way to disable it by setting an option in a config file. I can provide more details if you would like (or you could look for other more expansive posts by myself on this topic in the list archives).You've made your feelings known many times now, and we're all well aware of them - just as you are aware that there are legitimate security concerns that caused it to be implemented (that were raised by end users), ones that arguably warrant a medium level CVSS vulnerability score (CVSS:3.0/AV:L/AC:H/PR:N/UI:R/S:C/C:H/I:N/A:N), and other concerns such as allowing a network administrator to enforce security policy that led to the design.Please refrain from any further remarks that disparage the work of people who - in many cases, voluntarily - spend hundreds or thousands of hours of their time developing software that you get to use freely. Constructive feedback and better yet ideas or code are welcome always, but repeated negativity that is borderline ad hominem is not.
Re: Please give pgAdmin 4 its own GUI. The constant password inputsare driving me insane...
От
Michel Feinstein
Дата:
Avin,
There's a lengthy explanation about the vulnerabilies around the Master Password, solution, if you can't find it on the list, please let me know.
In a nutshell, a malware downloaded into a machine (or a malicious browser extension) could search for pgAdmin passwords and steal them.
Many people use pgAdmin on their personal laptops, specially on startups and people with remote jobs, junior developers with DB access and not security aware and etc.
Best wishes,
Michel.
PS: I am not a developer for the project, but I am the one who reported this issue.
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019, 10:44 Avin Kavish <avinkavish@gmail.com> wrote:
Guys I think we should take a breather on both sides, all I did was ask for clarification on why it was implemented. While I appreciate it, there's no need to sympathise with me, I don't have any feelings regarding it. Only that me as personal user does not need it. The original somewhat confrontational/ranty email was by someone else. Maybe replying to that was a bad idea since it may have set up the tone for the rest of the conversation.I think corporate security needs to be prioritised over the slight inconvenience presented to personal users. I think it is okay to be enabled by default. Perhaps maybe a more convenient menu option to turn it off would be nice, (but I am not asking for it maybe I'll get around to it when I have the time.)Peace ✌On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 6:56 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:Dave,There is no attack of any kind in that post. I am sympathizing with Avin. While I agree that there are use cases where a master password feature makes sense, I disagree that it is the majority of cases, or even applicable to the majority of users. Therefore I believe that it is implemented poorly. If history is any guide there will be plenty more users stumbling across this list frustrated and just wanting to know how to 'get rid of' or simply 'turn it off'.So where I wrote sympathy and solutions, you choose to see attacks. I think that says more about you than about myself.If the pgAdmin developers want nothing but praise and the occasional sterile bug report they should probably stop reading, or shut down this list. After all, a link to the redmine bug report page would suffice for the latter.Whether writing commercial or open source software, paid or volunteer, some people are not going to agree with your choices or decisions (just as Linus). As long as we are criticizing the software and not the people writing it, the software and all of us, end up better for it.I hope you take the time to think about what I've written,rik.On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 8:49 AM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:Richard,--On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 1:08 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:Avin,I agree, the master password nonsense was poorly implemented. I too wish the developers would rethink it. Until then there is a way to disable it by setting an option in a config file. I can provide more details if you would like (or you could look for other more expansive posts by myself on this topic in the list archives).You've made your feelings known many times now, and we're all well aware of them - just as you are aware that there are legitimate security concerns that caused it to be implemented (that were raised by end users), ones that arguably warrant a medium level CVSS vulnerability score (CVSS:3.0/AV:L/AC:H/PR:N/UI:R/S:C/C:H/I:N/A:N), and other concerns such as allowing a network administrator to enforce security policy that led to the design.Please refrain from any further remarks that disparage the work of people who - in many cases, voluntarily - spend hundreds or thousands of hours of their time developing software that you get to use freely. Constructive feedback and better yet ideas or code are welcome always, but repeated negativity that is borderline ad hominem is not.
Sorry for repeating this, but the only replies I got were unrelated to what I typed, instead briefly discussing master passwords.
Every single day, even after getting rid of the "master password" nonsense (which was a nightmare in itself), pgAdmin keeps asking me, again and again, to enter the password when I try to connect to my servers. This is cleared every single time I clear my browser data, which is an absolute necessity multiple times a day.I don't want pgAdmin to have anything to do with my browser, and dealing with multiple "profiles" is very impractical and tedious to set up. I don't want them connected whatsoever. Please make a proper GUI that is entirely separate from your "normal browser", allowing it to remember passwords and not constantly forget them because it's attached to your normal browser's data.The GUI can be an embedded browser and has no need whatsoever for constant security updates because all it does is load pgAdmin 4's code. It doesn't need to be able to do anything else, nor should it be able to. It shouldn't even be apparent to the user that it's a browser at all -- it should just open a GUI window with pgAdmin 4 inside of it -- not rely on my browser environment.I almost recall that this actually was done in the past. Why you would abandon this idea is inexplicable to me, since "just using the normal browser" causes so many annoying problems.
Have you tried using more than one browser? Load pgAdmin and/or a small number of secured things you want to stay logged in for longer periods, while do your majority of activities or the ones you'd want to clear your browser for in others. I for example have Safari plus Firefox plus Chrome and compartmentalize my activity between them, and they're all mutually isolated. -- Darren Duncan On 2019-07-27 5:54 a.m., tutiluren@tutanota.com wrote: > Sorry for repeating this, but the only replies I got were unrelated to what I > typed, instead briefly discussing master passwords. > > Every single day, even after getting rid of the "master password" nonsense > (which was a nightmare in itself), pgAdmin keeps asking me, again and again, > to enter the password when I try to connect to my servers. This is cleared > every single time I clear my browser data, which is an absolute necessity > multiple times a day. > > I don't want pgAdmin to have anything to do with my browser, and dealing > with multiple "profiles" is very impractical and tedious to set up. I don't > want them connected whatsoever. Please make a proper GUI that is entirely > separate from your "normal browser", allowing it to remember passwords and > not constantly forget them because it's attached to your normal browser's data. > > The GUI can be an embedded browser and has no need whatsoever for constant > security updates because all it does is load pgAdmin 4's code. It doesn't > need to be able to do anything else, nor should it be able to. It shouldn't > even be apparent to the user that it's a browser at all -- it should just > open a GUI window with pgAdmin 4 inside of it -- not rely on my browser > environment. > > I almost recall that this actually was done in the past. Why you would > abandon this idea is inexplicable to me, since "just using the normal > browser" causes so many annoying problems. > >
Darren,
On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:03 PM Darren Duncan <darren@darrenduncan.net> wrote:
Have you tried using more than one browser?
that's what I've taken to doing, I have a separate install of Chromium just for pgAdmin4. I've even changed the browser command to
Load pgAdmin and/or a small number of secured things you want to stay logged in
for longer periods, while do your majority of activities or the ones you'd want
to clear your browser for in others.
I for example have Safari plus Firefox plus Chrome and compartmentalize my
activity between them, and they're all mutually isolated.
-- Darren Duncan
On 2019-07-27 5:54 a.m., tutiluren@tutanota.com wrote:
> Sorry for repeating this, but the only replies I got were unrelated to what I
> typed, instead briefly discussing master passwords.
>
> Every single day, even after getting rid of the "master password" nonsense
> (which was a nightmare in itself), pgAdmin keeps asking me, again and again,
> to enter the password when I try to connect to my servers. This is cleared
> every single time I clear my browser data, which is an absolute necessity
> multiple times a day.
>
> I don't want pgAdmin to have anything to do with my browser, and dealing
> with multiple "profiles" is very impractical and tedious to set up. I don't
> want them connected whatsoever. Please make a proper GUI that is entirely
> separate from your "normal browser", allowing it to remember passwords and
> not constantly forget them because it's attached to your normal browser's data.
>
> The GUI can be an embedded browser and has no need whatsoever for constant
> security updates because all it does is load pgAdmin 4's code. It doesn't
> need to be able to do anything else, nor should it be able to. It shouldn't
> even be apparent to the user that it's a browser at all -- it should just
> open a GUI window with pgAdmin 4 inside of it -- not rely on my browser
> environment.
>
> I almost recall that this actually was done in the past. Why you would
> abandon this idea is inexplicable to me, since "just using the normal
> browser" causes so many annoying problems.
>
>
(sorry about the last missive - continued)
On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:38 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:
Darren,On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:03 PM Darren Duncan <darren@darrenduncan.net> wrote:Have you tried using more than one browser?
that's what I've taken to doing, I have a separate install of Chromium just for pgAdmin4. I've even changed the browser command to
"chromium-browser %URL% " so that it starts with the right browser.
Although not all browsers are apparently equal. Back on 2019-06-19 04:10:13 Khushboo Vashi <khushboo(dot)vashi(at)enterprisedb(dot)com> wrote in response to an issue I was having under Chromium;
"I would suggest, try a different browser as well as Chromium is not the
supported browser for pgAdmin."
Which suggests that there is a supported browser for pgAdmin4. This begs the question, if there's only a single supported browser, what exactly is the point of a web app? It's like web sites that only worked correctly under IE6.
Developing pgAdmin4 as a web app/web server thing might make sense from a development standpoint, but personally I think it introduces way more problems than it solves.
just my $0.02.
Load pgAdmin and/or a small number of secured things you want to stay logged in
for longer periods, while do your majority of activities or the ones you'd want
to clear your browser for in others.
I for example have Safari plus Firefox plus Chrome and compartmentalize my
activity between them, and they're all mutually isolated.
-- Darren Duncan
On 2019-07-27 5:54 a.m., tutiluren@tutanota.com wrote:
> Sorry for repeating this, but the only replies I got were unrelated to what I
> typed, instead briefly discussing master passwords.
>
> Every single day, even after getting rid of the "master password" nonsense
> (which was a nightmare in itself), pgAdmin keeps asking me, again and again,
> to enter the password when I try to connect to my servers. This is cleared
> every single time I clear my browser data, which is an absolute necessity
> multiple times a day.
>
> I don't want pgAdmin to have anything to do with my browser, and dealing
> with multiple "profiles" is very impractical and tedious to set up. I don't
> want them connected whatsoever. Please make a proper GUI that is entirely
> separate from your "normal browser", allowing it to remember passwords and
> not constantly forget them because it's attached to your normal browser's data.
>
> The GUI can be an embedded browser and has no need whatsoever for constant
> security updates because all it does is load pgAdmin 4's code. It doesn't
> need to be able to do anything else, nor should it be able to. It shouldn't
> even be apparent to the user that it's a browser at all -- it should just
> open a GUI window with pgAdmin 4 inside of it -- not rely on my browser
> environment.
>
> I almost recall that this actually was done in the past. Why you would
> abandon this idea is inexplicable to me, since "just using the normal
> browser" causes so many annoying problems.
>
>
Hi
On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 8:50 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:
(sorry about the last missive - continued)On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:38 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:Darren,On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:03 PM Darren Duncan <darren@darrenduncan.net> wrote:Have you tried using more than one browser?
that's what I've taken to doing, I have a separate install of Chromium just for pgAdmin4. I've even changed the browser command to"chromium-browser %URL% " so that it starts with the right browser.Although not all browsers are apparently equal. Back on 2019-06-19 04:10:13 Khushboo Vashi <khushboo(dot)vashi(at)enterprisedb(dot)com> wrote in response to an issue I was having under Chromium;"I would suggest, try a different browser as well as Chromium is not the
supported browser for pgAdmin."Which suggests that there is a supported browser for pgAdmin4. This begs the question, if there's only a single supported browser, what exactly is the point of a web app? It's like web sites that only worked correctly under IE6.
Don't mistake the phrasing there as an implication that there's only a single supported browser. Khushboo's first language is not English.
We (the team at EDB, I can't speak for others) test on Chrome, Firefox, Safari, IE and Edge. For anyone using other browsers, the first step for us in diagnosing an issue is going to be to try to reproduce it on one of the browsers we test with. It's not feasible for us to test with everything that is out there.
Developing pgAdmin4 as a web app/web server thing might make sense from a development standpoint, but personally I think it introduces way more problems than it solves.
It certainly does cause some problems that we didn't have before, but it's proven itself to solve a lot more.
There's also the fact that running over the web is exactly what many people want these days. I would guesstimate that we probably see something like 50% of users we interact with running in web mode, and 50% in desktop mode. Download-wise, the number of container pulls is far outstripping the number of other downloads these days with Docker hub reporting > 10 million. All of those users are running in web mode as that's the only way the container runs, so it's clear that the web app architecture is the right thing for a significant number of users.
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Hi
On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 1:55 PM <tutiluren@tutanota.com> wrote:
Sorry for repeating this, but the only replies I got were unrelated to what I typed, instead briefly discussing master passwords.
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Dave,
Thanks for helping to clear that up, I am sorry I misunderstood Khushboo's response. As for running in desktop mode, I didn't think that was possible for quite some time. I sure haven't been able to find out how to pull that off. If you could explain, I would imagine I am not the only one who would like that opportunity.
rik.
On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 4:45 AM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:
Hi--On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 8:50 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:(sorry about the last missive - continued)On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:38 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:Darren,On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:03 PM Darren Duncan <darren@darrenduncan.net> wrote:Have you tried using more than one browser?
that's what I've taken to doing, I have a separate install of Chromium just for pgAdmin4. I've even changed the browser command to"chromium-browser %URL% " so that it starts with the right browser.Although not all browsers are apparently equal. Back on 2019-06-19 04:10:13 Khushboo Vashi <khushboo(dot)vashi(at)enterprisedb(dot)com> wrote in response to an issue I was having under Chromium;"I would suggest, try a different browser as well as Chromium is not the
supported browser for pgAdmin."Which suggests that there is a supported browser for pgAdmin4. This begs the question, if there's only a single supported browser, what exactly is the point of a web app? It's like web sites that only worked correctly under IE6.Don't mistake the phrasing there as an implication that there's only a single supported browser. Khushboo's first language is not English.We (the team at EDB, I can't speak for others) test on Chrome, Firefox, Safari, IE and Edge. For anyone using other browsers, the first step for us in diagnosing an issue is going to be to try to reproduce it on one of the browsers we test with. It's not feasible for us to test with everything that is out there.Developing pgAdmin4 as a web app/web server thing might make sense from a development standpoint, but personally I think it introduces way more problems than it solves.It certainly does cause some problems that we didn't have before, but it's proven itself to solve a lot more.There's also the fact that running over the web is exactly what many people want these days. I would guesstimate that we probably see something like 50% of users we interact with running in web mode, and 50% in desktop mode. Download-wise, the number of container pulls is far outstripping the number of other downloads these days with Docker hub reporting > 10 million. All of those users are running in web mode as that's the only way the container runs, so it's clear that the web app architecture is the right thing for a significant number of users.Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Hi
On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 12:58 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave,Thanks for helping to clear that up, I am sorry I misunderstood Khushboo's response. As for running in desktop mode, I didn't think that was possible for quite some time. I sure haven't been able to find out how to pull that off. If you could explain, I would imagine I am not the only one who would like that opportunity.
You are running in desktop mode, otherwise you would see the login page when you first connect (and you wouldn't get the master password prompt). See https://www.pgadmin.org/docs/pgadmin4/4.11/getting_started.html (and the relevant child pages on Server and Desktop deployment)
Desktop vs. Server mode is not about the whether you access pgAdmin through a browser or not, but whether it's configured for running on a single user's desktop or on a web server that may be accessible to multiple users (or people who should not be using it at all; e.g. other people on the same LAN)
rik.On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 4:45 AM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:Hi--On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 8:50 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:(sorry about the last missive - continued)On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:38 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:Darren,On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:03 PM Darren Duncan <darren@darrenduncan.net> wrote:Have you tried using more than one browser?
that's what I've taken to doing, I have a separate install of Chromium just for pgAdmin4. I've even changed the browser command to"chromium-browser %URL% " so that it starts with the right browser.Although not all browsers are apparently equal. Back on 2019-06-19 04:10:13 Khushboo Vashi <khushboo(dot)vashi(at)enterprisedb(dot)com> wrote in response to an issue I was having under Chromium;"I would suggest, try a different browser as well as Chromium is not the
supported browser for pgAdmin."Which suggests that there is a supported browser for pgAdmin4. This begs the question, if there's only a single supported browser, what exactly is the point of a web app? It's like web sites that only worked correctly under IE6.Don't mistake the phrasing there as an implication that there's only a single supported browser. Khushboo's first language is not English.We (the team at EDB, I can't speak for others) test on Chrome, Firefox, Safari, IE and Edge. For anyone using other browsers, the first step for us in diagnosing an issue is going to be to try to reproduce it on one of the browsers we test with. It's not feasible for us to test with everything that is out there.Developing pgAdmin4 as a web app/web server thing might make sense from a development standpoint, but personally I think it introduces way more problems than it solves.It certainly does cause some problems that we didn't have before, but it's proven itself to solve a lot more.There's also the fact that running over the web is exactly what many people want these days. I would guesstimate that we probably see something like 50% of users we interact with running in web mode, and 50% in desktop mode. Download-wise, the number of container pulls is far outstripping the number of other downloads these days with Docker hub reporting > 10 million. All of those users are running in web mode as that's the only way the container runs, so it's clear that the web app architecture is the right thing for a significant number of users.Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Dave,
Ah, I guess the two of us have a different understanding of desktop mode. In your, and apparently pgAdmin4's case, it's a locally running web server with a couple of settings tweaked. In my, and perhaps many other people's, understanding desktop mode is a program that you install on your machine that contains it's own UI and isn't a server (even one that's running on your local machine) that you access with your web browser as you would google.com or facebook.com. Desktop mode is like pgAdmin3, non-desktop (server) mode is like running apache locally that has had phpPgAdmin installed. In pgAdmin4's case it's using python not php and the application and web server come as a bundle.
But thanks for pointing me to that web page.
rik.
On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 8:14 AM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:
HiOn Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 12:58 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:Dave,Thanks for helping to clear that up, I am sorry I misunderstood Khushboo's response. As for running in desktop mode, I didn't think that was possible for quite some time. I sure haven't been able to find out how to pull that off. If you could explain, I would imagine I am not the only one who would like that opportunity.You are running in desktop mode, otherwise you would see the login page when you first connect (and you wouldn't get the master password prompt). See https://www.pgadmin.org/docs/pgadmin4/4.11/getting_started.html (and the relevant child pages on Server and Desktop deployment)Desktop vs. Server mode is not about the whether you access pgAdmin through a browser or not, but whether it's configured for running on a single user's desktop or on a web server that may be accessible to multiple users (or people who should not be using it at all; e.g. other people on the same LAN)rik.On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 4:45 AM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:Hi--On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 8:50 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:(sorry about the last missive - continued)On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:38 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:Darren,On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:03 PM Darren Duncan <darren@darrenduncan.net> wrote:Have you tried using more than one browser?
that's what I've taken to doing, I have a separate install of Chromium just for pgAdmin4. I've even changed the browser command to"chromium-browser %URL% " so that it starts with the right browser.Although not all browsers are apparently equal. Back on 2019-06-19 04:10:13 Khushboo Vashi <khushboo(dot)vashi(at)enterprisedb(dot)com> wrote in response to an issue I was having under Chromium;"I would suggest, try a different browser as well as Chromium is not the
supported browser for pgAdmin."Which suggests that there is a supported browser for pgAdmin4. This begs the question, if there's only a single supported browser, what exactly is the point of a web app? It's like web sites that only worked correctly under IE6.Don't mistake the phrasing there as an implication that there's only a single supported browser. Khushboo's first language is not English.We (the team at EDB, I can't speak for others) test on Chrome, Firefox, Safari, IE and Edge. For anyone using other browsers, the first step for us in diagnosing an issue is going to be to try to reproduce it on one of the browsers we test with. It's not feasible for us to test with everything that is out there.Developing pgAdmin4 as a web app/web server thing might make sense from a development standpoint, but personally I think it introduces way more problems than it solves.It certainly does cause some problems that we didn't have before, but it's proven itself to solve a lot more.There's also the fact that running over the web is exactly what many people want these days. I would guesstimate that we probably see something like 50% of users we interact with running in web mode, and 50% in desktop mode. Download-wise, the number of container pulls is far outstripping the number of other downloads these days with Docker hub reporting > 10 million. All of those users are running in web mode as that's the only way the container runs, so it's clear that the web app architecture is the right thing for a significant number of users.Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company--Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Hi
On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 1:26 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:
Dave,Ah, I guess the two of us have a different understanding of desktop mode. In your, and apparently pgAdmin4's case, it's a locally running web server with a couple of settings tweaked. In my, and perhaps many other people's, understanding desktop mode is a program that you install on your machine that contains it's own UI and isn't a server (even one that's running on your local machine) that you access with your web browser as you would google.com or facebook.com. Desktop mode is like pgAdmin3, non-desktop (server) mode is like running apache locally that has had phpPgAdmin installed. In pgAdmin4's case it's using python not php and the application and web server come as a bundle.
pgAdmin 3 is what we'd call a native (desktop) application. pgAdmin 4 is *always* going to have a client-server model, as that's how it was designed and built from the ground up (which I believe Avin noted in the other thread). What we call desktop mode for pgAdmin 4 is some behavioural configuration options as you note, and the way the client/server are bundled together; whether in a single Qt application with the client and server effectively hidden from the user as we had with v1.x and v2.x, or with a server application and the users browser as we have now.
But thanks for pointing me to that web page.
No problem.
rik.On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 8:14 AM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:HiOn Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 12:58 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:Dave,Thanks for helping to clear that up, I am sorry I misunderstood Khushboo's response. As for running in desktop mode, I didn't think that was possible for quite some time. I sure haven't been able to find out how to pull that off. If you could explain, I would imagine I am not the only one who would like that opportunity.You are running in desktop mode, otherwise you would see the login page when you first connect (and you wouldn't get the master password prompt). See https://www.pgadmin.org/docs/pgadmin4/4.11/getting_started.html (and the relevant child pages on Server and Desktop deployment)Desktop vs. Server mode is not about the whether you access pgAdmin through a browser or not, but whether it's configured for running on a single user's desktop or on a web server that may be accessible to multiple users (or people who should not be using it at all; e.g. other people on the same LAN)rik.On Mon, Jul 29, 2019 at 4:45 AM Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:Hi--On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 8:50 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:(sorry about the last missive - continued)On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:38 PM richard coleman <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com> wrote:Darren,On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 3:03 PM Darren Duncan <darren@darrenduncan.net> wrote:Have you tried using more than one browser?
that's what I've taken to doing, I have a separate install of Chromium just for pgAdmin4. I've even changed the browser command to"chromium-browser %URL% " so that it starts with the right browser.Although not all browsers are apparently equal. Back on 2019-06-19 04:10:13 Khushboo Vashi <khushboo(dot)vashi(at)enterprisedb(dot)com> wrote in response to an issue I was having under Chromium;"I would suggest, try a different browser as well as Chromium is not the
supported browser for pgAdmin."Which suggests that there is a supported browser for pgAdmin4. This begs the question, if there's only a single supported browser, what exactly is the point of a web app? It's like web sites that only worked correctly under IE6.Don't mistake the phrasing there as an implication that there's only a single supported browser. Khushboo's first language is not English.We (the team at EDB, I can't speak for others) test on Chrome, Firefox, Safari, IE and Edge. For anyone using other browsers, the first step for us in diagnosing an issue is going to be to try to reproduce it on one of the browsers we test with. It's not feasible for us to test with everything that is out there.Developing pgAdmin4 as a web app/web server thing might make sense from a development standpoint, but personally I think it introduces way more problems than it solves.It certainly does cause some problems that we didn't have before, but it's proven itself to solve a lot more.There's also the fact that running over the web is exactly what many people want these days. I would guesstimate that we probably see something like 50% of users we interact with running in web mode, and 50% in desktop mode. Download-wise, the number of container pulls is far outstripping the number of other downloads these days with Docker hub reporting > 10 million. All of those users are running in web mode as that's the only way the container runs, so it's clear that the web app architecture is the right thing for a significant number of users.Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company--Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company