Обсуждение: [GENERAL] CRM where pg is a first class citizen?
Hi, I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large community where Postgresql is a first class citizen. I'd prefer ease of use over features. Thanks -- Ivan Sergio Borgonovo http://www.webthatworks.it http://www.borgonovo.net
On 12/13/2016 08:58 AM, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo wrote: > Hi, > > I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large > community where Postgresql is a first class citizen. > > I'd prefer ease of use over features. DjangoCMS Drupal 7+ JD > > Thanks > -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them.
On 12/13/2016 10:19 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large
community where Postgresql is a first class citizen.
I'd prefer ease of use over features.
DjangoCMS
Drupal 7+
CRM (Customer Relationship Manager) != CMS (Content Management System).
-- john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz
On 12/13/2016 12:19 PM, John R Pierce wrote: > On 12/13/2016 10:19 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >>> I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large >>> community where Postgresql is a first class citizen. >>> >>> I'd prefer ease of use over features. >> >> DjangoCMS >> Drupal 7+ > > CRM (Customer Relationship Manager) != CMS (Content Management System). Correct, sorry, even after I read your email I had to read it twice. Go Acronyms! Tryton is an ERP that has CRM functionality. Although it is a bit of a beast. JD > > > -- > john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz > -- Command Prompt, Inc. http://the.postgres.company/ +1-503-667-4564 PostgreSQL Centered full stack support, consulting and development. Everyone appreciates your honesty, until you are honest with them.
On 12/13/2016 12:24 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > > Tryton is an ERP that has CRM functionality. Although it is a bit of a > beast. indeed, most any ERP is pretty much a kitchen sink, trying to be all things. AR/AP/PR/PO/Inventory/etc/etc/etc. -- john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016, John R Pierce wrote: > CRM (Customer Relationship Manager) != CMS (Content Management System). John, True, and Django can be used for a CRM; there's an example by a North Carolina shop. Search the web for "django crm". I was going to use django but decided to make my CRM a stand-alone application. Rich
I've never used it but what about: https://developer.sugarcrm.com/2012/08/03/like-postgresql-and-want-to-use-it-with-sugarcrm-check-out-a-new-community-project/ Cheers, George On 13/12/2016 2:24 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: > On 12/13/2016 12:19 PM, John R Pierce wrote: >> On 12/13/2016 10:19 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >>>> I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large >>>> community where Postgresql is a first class citizen. >>>> >>>> I'd prefer ease of use over features. >>> >>> DjangoCMS >>> Drupal 7+ >> >> CRM (Customer Relationship Manager) != CMS (Content Management System). > > Correct, sorry, even after I read your email I had to read it twice. > Go Acronyms! > > Tryton is an ERP that has CRM functionality. Although it is a bit of a > beast. > > JD > >> >> >> -- >> john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz >> > > -- Cleartag Software, Inc. 972 McMillan Avenue Winnipeg, MB R3M 0V7 (204) 284-9839 phone/cell (204) 284-9838 fax gweaver@cleartagsoftware.com Fast. Accurate. Easy.
On Tue, Dec 13, 2016 at 3:36 PM, George Weaver <gweaver@shaw.ca> wrote:
I've never used it but what about:
https://developer.sugarcrm.com/2012/08/03/like-postgresql- and-want-to-use-it-with- sugarcrm-check-out-a-new-commu nity-project/
Cheers,
George
Looks like not much came out of it: https://community.sugarcrm.com/ideas/1503
They seem hesitant to support PG because of "market demand" which kinda sucks, since actions like that are part of the reason for Postgres' lower adoption rate than MySQL.
On 12/13/2016 09:36 PM, George Weaver wrote: > I've never used it but what about: > > https://developer.sugarcrm.com/2012/08/03/like-postgresql-and-want-to-use-it-with-sugarcrm-check-out-a-new-community-project/ That's one of the first thing I've read and it doesn't look as a good premise to make pg a first class citizen. BTW Joshua D. Drake cited Drupal 7+ Drupal was the reason I started using postgres back in the days and it has been one of the reasons I was bothering you all on this list more frequently few years ago. I've spent a pretty huge amount of time locally patching Drupal to make it work with postgresql and to try to push some of the patches upstream. I don't develop on Drupal anymore but up to at least D7 Postgresql was still not a first class citizen. I've heard DB abstraction layer in D8 is much better but I don't have anything critical on Drupal anymore and life is too short to fight to see your patches refused from upstream because "supporting postgres is holding us back". Considering that most PHP web applications are not optimized for any DB and I wonder what features could a developer exploit to optimize for mysql, that's really a shame. I don't want to repeat the experience, especially on software I'm just going to use and not develop on. Forgive me for I have sinned: last Drupal I've installed was 7 and I picked up mysql and I still feel awkward when I've to deal with it. I'm using horde on postgres. Postgres is not a first class citizen in Horde but at least they were happy and quick to merge a couple of my patches. Working with pg was fun, it was a very nice piece of software, it has a great community and it got even better. I'm not anymore a hardcore user but I still enjoy using it. There are much more services offering Postgres on the internet (Amazon, Heroku, OpenStack...). Lack of proper support from "web applications" still drives me nuts. It comes to no surprise that Python and Java "web applications" tend to support postgres better. Python would be absolutely welcome, but I don't have that much experience managing Java on the web. https://www.odoo.com/ supports postgres but it is an ERP and it is far more complicated than I would like. -- Ivan Sergio Borgonovo http://www.webthatworks.it http://www.borgonovo.net
On 12/13/2016 12:36 PM, George Weaver wrote: > I've never used it but what about: > > https://developer.sugarcrm.com/2012/08/03/like-postgresql-and-want-to-use-it-with-sugarcrm-check-out-a-new-community-project/ This killed the community(Open Source) edition going forward: https://community.sugarcrm.com/thread/18434 > > > Cheers, > George > > On 13/12/2016 2:24 PM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >> On 12/13/2016 12:19 PM, John R Pierce wrote: >>> On 12/13/2016 10:19 AM, Joshua D. Drake wrote: >>>>> I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large >>>>> community where Postgresql is a first class citizen. >>>>> >>>>> I'd prefer ease of use over features. >>>> >>>> DjangoCMS >>>> Drupal 7+ >>> >>> CRM (Customer Relationship Manager) != CMS (Content Management System). >> >> Correct, sorry, even after I read your email I had to read it twice. >> Go Acronyms! >> >> Tryton is an ERP that has CRM functionality. Although it is a bit of a >> beast. >> >> JD >> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> john r pierce, recycling bits in santa cruz >>> >> >> > -- Adrian Klaver adrian.klaver@aklaver.com
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016, Adrian Klaver wrote: > This killed the community(Open Source) edition going forward: > https://community.sugarcrm.com/thread/18434 I'd like to comment regarding this paragraph from the above-referenced blog post: "In the course of the past five years, we have surveyed tens of thousands of Sugar Community Edition users and found that we see two types of users of Sugar Community Edition: 1) developers that wish to build on an open source CRM platform, and 2) users, generally first time CRM users, that are looking for a free/inexpensive CRM solution. We don’t believe that the current Sugar Community Edition serves both audiences effectively. We envision an open source solution targeted exclusively for developers. And, we also envision a simpler way for first-time CRM users to find and use CRM." This is an interesting perspective, but not surprising for a large for-profit corporation like SugarCRM. I'm an environmental consultant sole practitioner and have been looking for years for a postgres-supporting CRM that I could use. There is none. Every business is different and has different needs. This is why a generic CRM like Sugar that tries to fit every business regardless of type or size forces its customers to fit into their generic model rather than supporting a developer _and_ end-user framework that can be customized for each business's specific needs and way of working. That's why I'm developing my own using PyQt5, Python3, psychpg2, and postgres-9.6. The django example I mentioned in an earlier post is written for software companies; so is a PHP-based one (XRMS) that was abandoned a decade ago. Product providers are different from service providers and small companies (or solo practitioners). Neither fit my needs. I have the postgres schema that works for me and am willing to share it with others because of this thread. I had not planned on putting it on GitHub, but see no reason not to do so if there's interest by others. I'm starting to learn PyQt5 and Python3 after a decade of wxPython use with Python2 and am just about ready to start creating the UI. Rich
On 12/13/2016 10:49 PM, Adrian Klaver wrote: > On 12/13/2016 12:36 PM, George Weaver wrote: >> I've never used it but what about: >> >> https://developer.sugarcrm.com/2012/08/03/like-postgresql-and-want-to-use-it-with-sugarcrm-check-out-a-new-community-project/ >> > > This killed the community(Open Source) edition going forward: > > https://community.sugarcrm.com/thread/18434 There are several forks. It is not even clear if the forks support pg and that's not a good start. Wikipedia lists: https://www.dolibarr.org/ (EPR) seems a bit messy http://epe.si/ (CRM) not clear workflow http://www.tryton.org/ (EPR) very postgres oriented, same family of odoo supporting postgres. Still looking for some good advice. -- Ivan Sergio Borgonovo http://www.webthatworks.it http://www.borgonovo.net
On 12/13/2016 11:45 PM, Rich Shepard wrote: > On Tue, 13 Dec 2016, Adrian Klaver wrote: > >> This killed the community(Open Source) edition going forward: >> https://community.sugarcrm.com/thread/18434 > > I'd like to comment regarding this paragraph from the above-referenced > blog post: > "In the course of the past five years, we have surveyed tens of > thousands of > Sugar Community Edition users and found that we see two types of users of > Sugar Community Edition: 1) developers that wish to build on an open source > CRM platform, and 2) users, generally first time CRM users, that are > looking > for a free/inexpensive CRM solution. We don’t believe that the current > Sugar > Community Edition serves both audiences effectively. We envision an open > source solution targeted exclusively for developers. And, we also > envision a > simpler way for first-time CRM users to find and use CRM." > This is an interesting perspective, but not surprising for a large > for-profit corporation like SugarCRM. > I'm an environmental consultant sole practitioner and have been looking > for years for a postgres-supporting CRM that I could use. There is none. > Every business is different and has different needs. This is why a generic > CRM like Sugar that tries to fit every business regardless of type or size > forces its customers to fit into their generic model rather than supporting > a developer _and_ end-user framework that can be customized for each > business's specific needs and way of working. This reminds me of Drupal and the companies driving its development again... Drupal was interesting because it was a packaged product and a framework. Most SME can't afford customization of ERP and accounting programs (if you're not including invoice formatting). SalesForce is not offering custom products and it is still pretty successful. While at least here in Italy I think most accounting programs are a trap, I've realized that most of the times SME should learn from the procedures proposed by CRM/ERP/accounting programs and adapt rather than customize. Processes are generally not scientifically planned, rather built up as they go. A program that has been built to serve many through years may not be optimal but at least tend to be more rational. Still I'm not looking for something perfect, but something simple with low maintenance. *Postgres in this case is one of the ingredients of low maintenance or at least maintenance I'm familiar with.* > That's why I'm developing my own using PyQt5, Python3, psychpg2, and > postgres-9.6. > I have the postgres schema that works for me and am willing to share it > with others because of this thread. I had not planned on putting it on > GitHub, but see no reason not to do so if there's interest by others. I'm > starting to learn PyQt5 and Python3 after a decade of wxPython use with > Python2 and am just about ready to start creating the UI. Unfortunately I don't want to depend on something I'll have to put developing resources in and I need something that work reasonably quickly. But I admit that considering the few requirement I have I spent a couple of seconds considering the idea to write one. Nothing bad could come out by publishing your code on Github and if not to contribute I'll surely give a look to learn something. -- Ivan Sergio Borgonovo http://www.webthatworks.it http://www.borgonovo.net
>I was looking for a open source CRM, PHP or python based, with a large community where Postgresql is a first class citizen. About 20 months ago when I started trading I settled for EspoCRM which uses PHP + MySQL. Despite some bugs I was quite enjoying it before my local VPS company disappeared without paying their datacentre bills. I did submit a pull request for one bug and it was accepted quickly. If a few people are interested it may not be too laborious to add Postgres support, it looks like the database code could use improvement anyway: https://github.com/espocrm/espocrm/search?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=PDO KR Peter
> On Dec 13, 2016, at 3:25 PM, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo <mail@webthatworks.it> wrote: > > I don't develop on Drupal anymore but up to at least D7 Postgresql was still not a first class citizen. > > I've heard DB abstraction layer in D8 is much better but I don't have anything critical on Drupal anymore and life is tooshort to fight to see your patches refused from upstream because "supporting postgres is holding us back". > Considering that most PHP web applications are not optimized for any DB and I wonder what features could a developer exploitto optimize for mysql, that's really a shame. > > I don't want to repeat the experience, especially on software I'm just going to use and not develop on. > > Forgive me for I have sinned: last Drupal I've installed was 7 and I picked up mysql and I still feel awkward when I'veto deal with it. I have been using Drupal with Postgres since 2005. Yes, there are sometimes issues, but it is rarely a problem unless youexpect every third party module to support Postgres. All of the core modules work well with Postgres. The database abstractionlayer works for the most part. The main benefit of Drupal is to get a base website up and going quickly. You canthen write your own custom (Postgres only) module to implement the non-core features you need. John DeSoi, Ph.D.
Also check Odoo (Python & PostgreSQL) & it has large community support.
--
Regards,
On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 8:58 AM, John DeSoi <desoi@pgedit.com> wrote:
> On Dec 13, 2016, at 3:25 PM, Ivan Sergio Borgonovo <mail@webthatworks.it> wrote:
>
> I don't develop on Drupal anymore but up to at least D7 Postgresql was still not a first class citizen.
>
> I've heard DB abstraction layer in D8 is much better but I don't have anything critical on Drupal anymore and life is too short to fight to see your patches refused from upstream because "supporting postgres is holding us back".
> Considering that most PHP web applications are not optimized for any DB and I wonder what features could a developer exploit to optimize for mysql, that's really a shame.
>
> I don't want to repeat the experience, especially on software I'm just going to use and not develop on.
>
> Forgive me for I have sinned: last Drupal I've installed was 7 and I picked up mysql and I still feel awkward when I've to deal with it.
I have been using Drupal with Postgres since 2005. Yes, there are sometimes issues, but it is rarely a problem unless you expect every third party module to support Postgres. All of the core modules work well with Postgres. The database abstraction layer works for the most part. The main benefit of Drupal is to get a base website up and going quickly. You can then write your own custom (Postgres only) module to implement the non-core features you need.
John DeSoi, Ph.D.
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