Обсуждение: New project launched : PostgreSQL GUI Installer for Linux/Unix systems

Hi,

As you know, many databases that run on Linux / Unix systems have a GUI
installer which make installation easier and more attractive for some
people.

Our Windows Installer is very attractive, for example.

Now, I and Burcu Guzel, who is a Senior Programmer, decided to launch a
new project: pgnixinstaller :

http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/

We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me
an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you
need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase,
if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas.

Regards,
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/

Devrim GUNDUZ <devrim@commandprompt.com> writes:

> http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/
>
> We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me
> an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you
> need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase,
> if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas.

What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system
and up-to-date repositories?  I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu
using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and
adminsiter it.

For systems like Solaris I can see it maybe being a win.

Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or
put everything in /usr/local?

-Doug

Hi,

On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:03 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote:

> > We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me
> > an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you
> > need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase,
> > if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas.
>
> What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system
> and up-to-date repositories?  I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu
> using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and
> adminsiter it.

You can install, but what if you need different configure options than
the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we
will build and install that package via the installer.

OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI
RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a
lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the
prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites)

> For systems like Solaris I can see it maybe being a win.

Agreed.

> Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or
> put everything in /usr/local?

We'll work with the package manager -- I'm an RPM guy ;)

Regards,
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/

Devrim GUNDUZ wrote:

>OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI
>RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a
>lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the
>prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites)
>
>
>


There's yumex ... http://fedoranews.org/tchung/yumex/

cheers

andrew

Devrim GUNDUZ <devrim@commandprompt.com> writes:

> On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:03 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote:
>
>> What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system
>> and up-to-date repositories?  I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu
>> using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and
>> adminsiter it.
>
> You can install, but what if you need different configure options than
> the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we
> will build and install that package via the installer.

That's actually a pretty cool idea--compile and generate debs/rpms
that reflect the user's choices, then install them.  But the
dependency on a compiler adds a twist of complexity--"sorry, you need
to install the following system packages (gcc, etc) before you can
install Postgres as you've configured it."  Not horrible, but perhaps
intimidating for the GUI crowd?  :)  Is gcc in the bog-standard
default install on FC these days?

Certainly you can install pre-built binaries without a compiler, and
let the user choose database location, autovacuum settings and stuff
like that.

Good luck!

-Doug

Hi,

On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:27 -0500, Andrew Dunstan wrote:

> >OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI
> >RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a
> >lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the
> >prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites)
>
> There's yumex ... http://fedoranews.org/tchung/yumex/

Thanks for the info. I haven't heard about it before...

However none of them are PostgreSQL Installers,  none of them has the
ability to customize the packages and none of them has the ability to
install the community packages, etc. :)

Regards,
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote:

> Hi,
>
> On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:03 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote:
>
>>> We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me
>>> an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you
>>> need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase,
>>> if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas.
>>
>> What value does this bring to systems that have a good package system
>> and up-to-date repositories?  I can install Postgres today on Ubuntu
>> using a GUI tool, and install another GUI tool to configure and
>> adminsiter it.
>
> You can install, but what if you need different configure options than
> the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we
> will build and install that package via the installer.
>
> OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI
> RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a
> lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the
> prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites)

And pull down/build/install the various extensions on pgFoundry? :)

----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org           Yahoo!: yscrappy              ICQ: 7615664

Hi,

On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:31 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote:
>
> Certainly you can install pre-built binaries without a compiler, and
> let the user choose database location, autovacuum settings and stuff
> like that.

That's another good point. We can adjust many settings before
installing.

Regards,
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/

Hi,

On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 21:34 -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > OTOH, exluding Synaptic that I hate to use, FC / RH does not have a GUI
> > RPM interface for the repositories. So our installer will help them a
> > lot. Also, our installer will have an option to download and install the
> > prebuilt binaries from PostgreSQL FTP site (and possible other sites)
>
> And pull down/build/install the various extensions on pgFoundry? :)

Another good idea. Thanks Marc.

Regards,
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/

Hi,

On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 20:31 -0500, Doug McNaught wrote:
> > You can install, but what if you need different configure options than
> > the package provides? This means a rebuild of the package. Instead, we
> > will build and install that package via the installer.
>
> That's actually a pretty cool idea--compile and generate debs/rpms
> that reflect the user's choices, then install them.  But the
> dependency on a compiler adds a twist of complexity--"sorry, you need
> to install the following system packages (gcc, etc) before you can
> install Postgres as you've configured it."  Not horrible, but perhaps
> intimidating for the GUI crowd?  :)  Is gcc in the bog-standard
> default install on FC these days?

We can pre-check the prerequisites for building the package and raise an
error before beginning to build the package. It is not that hard. For
example, RPMs have BuildRequires tags and we can compare those with the
packages installed in the system.

BTW, gcc is not installed on by default AFAIR.

Regards,
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote:

> BTW, gcc is not installed on by default AFAIR.

Wow, how do you update the kernel each week? :)

More seriously, I know under FreeBSD, one of the first things that gets
done after installing is to customize the kernel to get rid of all the
'cruft' part of the generic kernel, I take it that this isn't something
that ppl do with Linux?

----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org           Yahoo!: yscrappy              ICQ: 7615664

Hi,

On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 22:04 -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:

>> BTW, gcc is not installed on by default AFAIR.
>
> Wow, how do you update the kernel each week? :)
>
> More seriously, I know under FreeBSD, one of the first things that gets
> done after installing is to customize the kernel to get rid of all the
> 'cruft' part of the generic kernel, I take it that this isn't something
> that ppl do with Linux?

On systems that have a packaging system, you are supposed to download
and install vendor kernels. There is "no need" to build the kernel.
However, if you want to build, then you need to install development
environment.

On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat
does not provide support if I do so :)

Regards,
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote:

> On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat
> does not provide support if I do so :)

Is everything 'loadable modules' then?  I can't imagine you have some
mammoth kernel running on your system, do you?  with every conceivable
piece of hardware configured in?

----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org           Yahoo!: yscrappy              ICQ: 7615664

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

>
> More seriously, I know under FreeBSD, one of the first things that
> gets done after installing is to customize the kernel to get rid of
> all the 'cruft' part of the generic kernel, I take it that this isn't
> something that ppl do with Linux?
>

The Linux kernel has loadable modules, so it's much less of an issue.
For example, I just installed the Cisco VPN s/w on my FC4 box.  I didn't
have to rebuild the kernel, all I have to do is to load the kernel
module that puts a wedge in the IP stack.

The parts of the kernel that are optional are almost all loadable modules.

Some people do build static kernels. That makes sense when you have
tightly controlled hardware and software requirements. I mostly don't
bother.

cheers

andrew

"Marc G. Fournier" <scrappy@postgresql.org> writes:

> On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote:
>
>> On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat
>> does not provide support if I do so :)
>
> Is everything 'loadable modules' then?  I can't imagine you have some
> mammoth kernel running on your system, do you?  with every conceivable
> piece of hardware configured in?

Yes, vendor kernels are very modular--most drivers, packet filtering,
scsi etc are all loadable modules.  You can of course build your own
kernel with only the drivers you need built-in, but it usually doesn't
make very much difference.  The module system works, in general,
extremely well.

-Doug

On Jan 30, 2006, at 8:32 PM, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote:

> However none of them are PostgreSQL Installers,  none of them has the
> ability to customize the packages and none of them has the ability to
> install the community packages, etc. :)

You need to take a sniff over at the FreeBSD ports.  Lets you build
customized install of Pg quite easily, without need for a gui, which
none of my big servers have.

Marc G. Fournier wrote:

> On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Devrim GUNDUZ wrote:
>
>> On my RHEL boxes, I do never ever recompile the kernel since Red Hat
>> does not provide support if I do so :)
>
>
> Is everything 'loadable modules' then?  I can't imagine you have some
> mammoth kernel running on your system, do you?  with every conceivable
> piece of hardware configured in?

Yes except for "core" modules almost everything in Linux is a loadable
module.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

Devrim GUNDUZ wrote:

Have you looked at AutoPackage?

http://autopackage.org

screen shots.

http://autopackage.org/gallery.html

Has a GUI wizard if X windows is available and a command line wizard if
no X is available.


Using autopackage is similar to using MSI,Wise,Inno etc on Windows.

Later,

--
Tony Caduto
AM Software Design
Home of PG Lightning Admin for Postgresql
http://www.amsoftwaredesign.com

Devrim GUNDUZ schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> As you know, many databases that run on Linux / Unix systems have a GUI
> installer which make installation easier and more attractive for some
> people.

If you think of the *racle-GUI-Installer, most people find it very
s*cking ;)

> Our Windows Installer is very attractive, for example.
>
> Now, I and Burcu Guzel, who is a Senior Programmer, decided to launch a
> new project: pgnixinstaller :
>
> http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/
>
> We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me
> an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you
> need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase,
> if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas.

Might be fun of course. But on unix you usually have some kind
of package system anyway - how is the installer supposed to
play nicely with them?

Regards
Tino

Devrim GUNDUZ schrieb:
> Hi,
>
...
>>Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or
>>put everything in /usr/local?
>
>
> We'll work with the package manager -- I'm an RPM guy ;)
>
RPM isnt the only packaging system out there ;)

Jonah H. Harris schrieb:
> I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in Java...
> IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could build off
> some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as IzPack).  Just my 2
> cents :)

Yes! Use Java for ultimate suckiness of the installer ;) I love to
install all X11, Java and stuff on a server to be able to install
a package with about 1/10 the size ;)

SCNR
Tino

On Tue, 31 Jan 2006, Tino Wildenhain wrote:

> Devrim GUNDUZ schrieb:
>> Hi,
>>
> ...
>>> Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or
>>> put everything in /usr/local?
>>
>>
>> We'll work with the package manager -- I'm an RPM guy ;)
>>
> RPM isnt the only packaging system out there ;)

I thought that Linux had this 'Linux Standard File System' or some such
that described where files were supposed to be installed?  Or is this
another one of those Standards that nobody follows? :(

I know under FreeBSD, its simple: --prefix=/usr/local and away you go ...

----
Marc G. Fournier           Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org)
Email: scrappy@hub.org           Yahoo!: yscrappy              ICQ: 7615664

am  31.01.2006, um  8:46:44 +0100 mailte Tino Wildenhain folgendes:
> Jonah H. Harris schrieb:
> >I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in Java...
> >IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could build off
> >some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as IzPack).  Just my 2
> >cents :)
>
> Yes! Use Java for ultimate suckiness of the installer ;) I love to
> install all X11, Java and stuff on a server to be able to install
> a package with about 1/10 the size ;)

Yes! And so we are compatible with Oracle ;-)


Andreas
--
Andreas Kretschmer    (Kontakt: siehe Header)
Heynitz:  035242/47215,      D1: 0160/7141639
GnuPG-ID 0x3FFF606C http://wwwkeys.de.pgp.net
 ===    Schollglas Unternehmensgruppe    ===

Tino Wildenhain wrote:
> Jonah H. Harris schrieb:
>> I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in
>> Java... IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could
>> build off some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as
>> IzPack).  Just my 2 cents :)
>
> Yes! Use Java for ultimate suckiness of the installer ;) I love to
> install all X11, Java and stuff on a server to be able to install
> a package with about 1/10 the size ;)
>

How about postponing choice of implementation language until it's clear what it is that
should be implemented ;-)

Regards,
Thomas Hallgren

Hi,

On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 08:34 +0100, Tino Wildenhain wrote:

> > http://pgfoundry.org/projects/pgnixinstaller/
> >
> > We are actively looking for developers for the project. Please drop me
> > an e-mail if you want to join this project. We will use Python, so you
> > need to be a Python guy to join the project. We are in planning phase,
> > if you join us earlier, we will be able to share more ideas.
>
> Might be fun of course. But on unix you usually have some kind
> of package system anyway - how is the installer supposed to
> play nicely with them?

Yes,

We will try to stick the file locations of those package managers. We
already have that KB.

Regards,
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/

Hi,

On Tue, 2006-01-31 at 08:36 +0100, Tino Wildenhain wrote:

> >>Are you going to work with the underlying system's package manager, or
> >>put everything in /usr/local?
> >
> >
> > We'll work with the package manager -- I'm an RPM guy ;)
> >
> RPM isnt the only packaging system out there ;)

I used RPM as an alias to package managers :)

Regards,
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/

Hi,

On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 22:45 -0500, Vivek Khera wrote:
> > However none of them are PostgreSQL Installers,  none of them has the
> > ability to customize the packages and none of them has the ability to
> > install the community packages, etc. :)
>
> You need to take a sniff over at the FreeBSD ports.  Lets you build
> customized install of Pg quite easily, without need for a gui, which
> none of my big servers have.

There are some people who do use GUI on their servers and do not know
how to compile a software or do not want to build a software via command
line.

This is called "marketing". :)

Regards,
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/

Hi,

On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 21:27 -0500, Jonah H. Harris wrote:
> I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in
> Java... IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could
> build off some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as
> IzPack).  Just my 2 cents :)

Bundling Java is a pain, so we'd better stay away from that.

Regards,
--
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc. 1.503.667.4564
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Managed Services, Shared and Dedicated Hosting
Co-Authors: plPHP, plPerlNG - http://www.commandprompt.com/

Devrim GUNDUZ wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Mon, 2006-01-30 at 21:27 -0500, Jonah H. Harris wrote:
>> I had to deal with an installer written in python and several in
>> Java... IMHO, Java would be a better language for this and you could
>> build off some nice OSS installers that already exist (such as
>> IzPack).  Just my 2 cents :)
>
> Bundling Java is a pain, so we'd better stay away from that.
>

There's always gcj. It's pretty mature by now. I'm not sure about availability compared to
Python though, but I find it hard to believe it would be more painful.

Regards,
Thomas Hallgren