Обсуждение: Re: Important Info on comp.databases.postgresql.general
On 9 Nov 2004 15:51:24 -0800, pvaurio@solaris.polarhome.com wrote:
>This is a very unfair limitation.
Stop top posting.
>If there is a ballot, it should be posted to each of the individual mailing lists.
That's not how it works.
>When/if a ballot appears in News Announce Newgroups, I will copy/paste and e-mail the
>ballot to each of the PostgreSql mailing lists, once per week during
>the 3 weeks of voting. The mailing list users will be most affected by
>any voting outcome. I will not allow them to be left out of the
>process. Many of the list subscribers do not use Usenet. I never posted
>to a newsgroup before today.
>
>Additionally, I encourage all list members to vote yes. Please get
>everyone you know to vote. We need to exceed the no votes by 100 in
>order to pass. I am affiliated with a network of over 60 PostgreSql
>users/developers, and I will e-mail each one of those people a ballot,
>and it is safe to presume that essentially all of them will vote yes. I
>encourage all proponents of saving the lists to do exactly the same,
>within their scope of influence.
You're trying to get it to fail, eh? Nice going.
>I am stupefied by the downright arrogance of most of the news.groups
>readership.
Please. We're trying to help you fix something that's broken.
> You people have the audacity try and dictate rules of
>matters that do not affect your lives in the least.
I've dealt with the day to day workings of USENet for more than 10
years and there are a LOT of people who've been doing it longer.
Try not making so many assumptions.
>
>Mr. Pauli Vaurio
--
gburnore@databasix dot com
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--- "Gary L. Burnore" <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote: > On 9 Nov 2004 15:51:24 -0800, > pvaurio@solaris.polarhome.com wrote: > > >This is a very unfair limitation. > > Stop top posting. > > >If there is a ballot, it should be posted to each > of the individual mailing lists. > > That's not how it works. > > >When/if a ballot appears in News Announce > Newgroups, I will copy/paste and e-mail the > >ballot to each of the PostgreSql mailing lists, > once per week during > >the 3 weeks of voting. The mailing list users will > be most affected by > >any voting outcome. I will not allow them to be > left out of the > >process. Many of the list subscribers do not use > Usenet. I never posted > >to a newsgroup before today. > > > >Additionally, I encourage all list members to vote > yes. Please get > >everyone you know to vote. We need to exceed the no > votes by 100 in > >order to pass. I am affiliated with a network of > over 60 PostgreSql > >users/developers, and I will e-mail each one of > those people a ballot, > >and it is safe to presume that essentially all of > them will vote yes. I > >encourage all proponents of saving the lists to do > exactly the same, > >within their scope of influence. > > You're trying to get it to fail, eh? Nice going. > > > >I am stupefied by the downright arrogance of most > of the news.groups > >readership. > > Please. We're trying to help you fix something > that's broken. ??? As a longstanding reader of the pgsql- mailinglists, (including via news.postgresql.org on occasion), all I see is some outsiders trying to help us "fix" a problem that does not exist. And yes, I have read most of the messages that have passed by in these threads. After all that, I still don't see the benefit. Perhaps that is why these conversations have been carried on almost totally by people who do not post to the pgsql lists. > > > You people have the audacity try and dictate rules > of > >matters that do not affect your lives in the least. > > I've dealt with the day to day workings of USENet > for more than 10 > years and there are a LOT of people who've been > doing it longer. > > Try not making so many assumptions. > > > > >Mr. Pauli Vaurio > > > -- > gburnore@databasix dot com > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > How you look depends on where you > go. > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Gary L. Burnore | > ��������������������������������� > | > ��������������������������������� > DataBasix | > ��������������������������������� > | ��� 3 4 1 4 > 2 ���� 6 9 0 6 9 ��� > Black Helicopter Repair Svcs Division | Official > Proof of Purchase > =========================================================================== > Want one? GET one! > http://signup.databasix.com > =========================================================================== > > ---------------------------(end of > broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
Jeff Eckermann wrote: > ??? As a longstanding reader of the pgsql- > mailinglists, (including via news.postgresql.org on > occasion), all I see is some outsiders trying to help > us "fix" a problem that does not exist. And yes, I > have read most of the messages that have passed by in > these threads. After all that, I still don't see the > benefit. Perhaps in parallel with the Usenet community voting whether they want to receive posts from the mailing lists, we can have the mailing list subscribers vote on whether they want to receive messages from the Usenet or want to have their messages forwarded to the Usenet. That might be interesting. -- Peter Eisentraut http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
> Perhaps in parallel with the Usenet community voting whether they want > to receive posts from the mailing lists, we can have the mailing list > subscribers vote on whether they want to receive messages from the > Usenet or want to have their messages forwarded to the Usenet. That > might be interesting. If it isn't already in mailman, it would be an interesting option to add to mailman's web interface to give subscribers the option to include or exclude posts being gatewayed from USENET. (I could use that feature on some lists I run.) -- Mike Nolan
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Mike Nolan wrote: >> Perhaps in parallel with the Usenet community voting whether they want >> to receive posts from the mailing lists, we can have the mailing list >> subscribers vote on whether they want to receive messages from the >> Usenet or want to have their messages forwarded to the Usenet. That >> might be interesting. > > If it isn't already in mailman, it would be an interesting option to add > to mailman's web interface to give subscribers the option to include > or exclude posts being gatewayed from USENET. gatewaying means that there is an address subscribed to the lists that sends all email's to the news server ... a feature like the above would have to be akin to a "don't send to subscriber X" ... Also note that any such restrictions would end up affecting gmane and google as well ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
> ??? As a longstanding reader of the pgsql- > mailinglists, (including via news.postgresql.org on > occasion), all I see is some outsiders trying to help > us "fix" a problem that does not exist. And yes, I > have read most of the messages that have passed by in > these threads. After all that, I still don't see the > benefit. To me, this sounds pretty elitist and exclusionary. Is there a reason why you would not want more people particpating in the discussions here? I myself never participated here until I figured out I could point a usenet reader to news.postgresql.org to view and reply to the list. No way I was going to get hundreds of messages a day in my inbox. As for why not just keep the same system, there are times when news.postgresl.org runs like a dog. 2 or 3 days out of a month, messages take 5 or more seconds to come up. If I and others could use our local news servers, that's less bandwidth, less load for the postgres servers. And that means someone, somewhere is paying less for their contributions to the PG project.
--- William Yu <wyu@talisys.com> wrote: > > ??? As a longstanding reader of the pgsql- > > mailinglists, (including via news.postgresql.org > on > > occasion), all I see is some outsiders trying to > help > > us "fix" a problem that does not exist. And yes, > I > > have read most of the messages that have passed by > in > > these threads. After all that, I still don't see > the > > benefit. > > To me, this sounds pretty elitist and exclusionary. > Is there a reason > why you would not want more people particpating in > the discussions here? > I myself never participated here until I figured > out I could point a > usenet reader to news.postgresql.org to view and > reply to the list. No > way I was going to get hundreds of messages a day in > my inbox. > > As for why not just keep the same system, there are > times when > news.postgresl.org runs like a dog. 2 or 3 days out > of a month, messages > take 5 or more seconds to come up. If I and others > could use our local > news servers, that's less bandwidth, less load for > the postgres servers. > And that means someone, somewhere is paying less > for their > contributions to the PG project. William, Thank you for your useful post. I was speaking from my personal point of view, as indeed you were. To explain: I have read the pgsql- lists for several years, and in that time I have seen many, many issues discussed, often to death and beyond. But never once have I seen a post saying "gee, wouldn't it be wonderful if we were a big 8 newsgroup", or "wow, it really is difficult to participate in these lists, perhaps we should get on Usenet". In short, the issue that is now being raised with us, the list participants, is not an issue for us. So, next we have a person whom we have never heard of, coming to us and saying "Hey, I am solving your problem; I am going to change the way your lists work, and I am saving you trouble by doing it myself without even asking your opinion". Do you blame me, and some others, for responding with "Huh?", and "What was that problem again?". The "problem" that is being solved is, as presented so far, too abstract to be convincing, at least for me. Your post is the first I have read that actually talks about something concrete, i.e. meaningful to an actual user. If we continue to see more discussion of this subject, as we no doubt will, I hope to see a higher ratio of useful posts like yours. Regards, Jeff > > ---------------------------(end of > broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 8: explain analyze is your friend > __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Check out the new Yahoo! Front Page. www.yahoo.com
jeff_eckermann@yahoo.com (Jeff Eckermann) wrote in news:20041110155940.40416.qmail@web20822.mail.yahoo.com: > --- "Gary L. Burnore" <gburnore@databasix.com> wrote: >> Please. We're trying to help you fix something >> that's broken. > > ??? As a longstanding reader of the pgsql- > mailinglists, (including via news.postgresql.org on > occasion), all I see is some outsiders trying to help > us "fix" a problem that does not exist. And yes, I I think it's a problem. Not a big one, but still a problem. > have read most of the messages that have passed by in > these threads. After all that, I still don't see the > benefit. > > Perhaps that is why these conversations have been > carried on almost totally by people who do not post to > the pgsql lists. > Or maybe that some of us longstanding (ok, only 4 years for my part) readers of pgslq-mailinglist like the proposal and just follow the discussion. By the way, from the header of your post i think that the only audience for your post is those who are members of the mailinglist and not so many others. Today everyone can access the news.postgresql.org server and the list is carried by some other news providers also. The benefit is that all potential new users would have better possibility of using their preffered news server to access the groups. (Well, you may not think that beneficial but i do). I have seen some discussion about the technicality of gatewaying and of the filtering of spam which is on post from the news side to the mailinglist side. Otherwise haven't I seen any disadvantages with getting some of the groups "approved". -- Rolf �stvik
Jeff Eckermann wrote: > The "problem" that is being solved is, as presented so > far, too abstract to be convincing, at least for me. If you say so. The problem that Mark (Marc?) is trying to solve is that his ISP doesn't give access to this newsgroup because it is NOT in the Big-8. The solution will probably not change anything for anyone currently enjoying access and may be un-noticeable to most if his efforts are successful. I haven't been able to detect anyone acting as a moderator, and with all the address spoofing going on I don't know what they could do to eliminate the spoofing and the childish rants that sometimes flair up. The volume of msgs to this group are so great that were it to become moderated and every post previewed to eliminate bandwidth wasting posts and ego-fights, the work load would be overwhelming for even two or three moderators. IMO -- -- GreyGeek