Обсуждение: Fwd: Postfix Relay Hub SMTP server: errors from postgresql.org[64.49.215.8]

Somebody needs to fix this.

=====================================

>Date: Wed,  1 May 2002 17:04:35 +0200 (CEST)
>From: MAILER-DAEMON@mgw1.MEIway.com (Mail Delivery System)
>To: spambox@meiway.com (Postmaster)
>Subject: Postfix Relay Hub SMTP server: errors from
>postgresql.org[64.49.215.8]
>X-Virus-Scanned: by VirusGate.MEIway.com
>
>Transcript of session follows.
>
>  Out: 220 mgw1.MEIway.com - ESMTP - Postfix Relay Hub - ATTN: UCE trespassers
>      will be pursued.
>  In:  EHLO postgresql.org
>  Out: 250-mgw1.MEIway.com
>  Out: 250-PIPELINING
>  Out: 250-SIZE 40000000
>  Out: 250-ETRN
>  Out: 250 8BITMIME
>  In:  MAIL
>      FROM:<pgsql-general-owner+M23991=go2france.com=lconrad@postgresql.org>
>      SIZE=2042
>  Out: 250 Ok
>  In:  RCPT TO:<lconrad@go2france.com>
>  Out: 554 Service unavailable; [64.49.215.8] blocked using
>      spews.relays.osirusoft.com, reason: [1] ScottRichter, see
>      http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S511
>  In:  DATA
>  Out: 503 Error: need RCPT command
>  In:  RSET
>  Out: 250 Ok
>  In:  QUIT
>  Out: 221 Bye
>
>No message was collected successfully.

nadda we can do about it ... appears to be someone using Rackspace
server(s) causing it:

    http://spews.org/html/S511.html

Funny thing is, looking at the above URL, there is no specific reference
to 64.49.215.*, and, unless I'm reading my 'netmasks' wrong, none of the
ranges should include us either :9


On Wed, 1 May 2002, Len Conrad wrote:

> Somebody needs to fix this.
>
> =====================================
>
> >Date: Wed,  1 May 2002 17:04:35 +0200 (CEST)
> >From: MAILER-DAEMON@mgw1.MEIway.com (Mail Delivery System)
> >To: spambox@meiway.com (Postmaster)
> >Subject: Postfix Relay Hub SMTP server: errors from
> >postgresql.org[64.49.215.8]
> >X-Virus-Scanned: by VirusGate.MEIway.com
> >
> >Transcript of session follows.
> >
> >  Out: 220 mgw1.MEIway.com - ESMTP - Postfix Relay Hub - ATTN: UCE trespassers
> >      will be pursued.
> >  In:  EHLO postgresql.org
> >  Out: 250-mgw1.MEIway.com
> >  Out: 250-PIPELINING
> >  Out: 250-SIZE 40000000
> >  Out: 250-ETRN
> >  Out: 250 8BITMIME
> >  In:  MAIL
> >      FROM:<pgsql-general-owner+M23991=go2france.com=lconrad@postgresql.org>
> >      SIZE=2042
> >  Out: 250 Ok
> >  In:  RCPT TO:<lconrad@go2france.com>
> >  Out: 554 Service unavailable; [64.49.215.8] blocked using
> >      spews.relays.osirusoft.com, reason: [1] ScottRichter, see
> >      http://spews.org/ask.cgi?S511
> >  In:  DATA
> >  Out: 503 Error: need RCPT command
> >  In:  RSET
> >  Out: 250 Ok
> >  In:  QUIT
> >  Out: 221 Bye
> >
> >No message was collected successfully.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 2: you can get off all lists at once with the unregister command
>     (send "unregister YourEmailAddressHere" to majordomo@postgresql.org)
>

On Wed, 2002-05-01 at 16:25, Len Conrad wrote:
> Somebody needs to fix this.
>
> =====================================
>
> >Date: Wed,  1 May 2002 17:04:35 +0200 (CEST)
> >From: MAILER-DAEMON@mgw1.MEIway.com (Mail Delivery System)
> >To: spambox@meiway.com (Postmaster)
> >Subject: Postfix Relay Hub SMTP server: errors from
> >postgresql.org[64.49.215.8]
> >X-Virus-Scanned: by VirusGate.MEIway.com

It appears that the SPEWS people have spotted this and are fixing their
database -it was a typo that took out all IPs from 4.49.220.231 -
64.49.220.227 (seems a little careless not to have some sanity checking,
but that's very OT for here...)

Regards

John

--
John Gray    ECHOES: sponsored walks for Christian Aid to the highest
Azuli IT        points of English counties, 4th-6th May 2002
www.azuli.co.uk        www.stannesmoseley.care4free.net/echoes.html

On Wed, May 01, 2002 at 10:25:46AM -0500, Len Conrad wrote:

> Somebody needs to fix this.
>

No kidding! Every single time I send something to this list, I get all
the bounces coming back to me. I admin five lists, and bounces never go
back to the person posting, only the admin for handling. But not this
list. I got to a point where I just bounce them back to the originating
mailer daemon, since I can't find an actual person to send complaints to
about the list. Sorry for the list administrivia, but this struck a
nerve.

Paul

Paul M Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com> writes:
> No kidding! Every single time I send something to this list, I get all
> the bounces coming back to me. I admin five lists, and bounces never go
> back to the person posting, only the admin for handling. But not this
> list.

Oh?  AFAICT the PG lists mail out with envelope sender and Sender:
header both pointing to list-bot addresses.  What else would you have
it do?

As a frequent poster to the PG lists, I'm sure I see as many problems
as anyone.  But they're rare.  Once in awhile some subscriber's mail
software starts bouncing complaints back to the message author instead
of the list-sender address.  I complain to Marc, he unsubscribes the
offenders, and that's that.  I can't recall that there was ever more
than one such bogosity active at the same time.

> ... since I can't find an actual person to send complaints to
> about the list.

Marc Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> is the man to talk to about list
problems.  IMHO he runs these lists pretty well (and yes, I have
some experience as a list admin, too).

            regards, tom lane

On Wed, 1 May 2002, Tom Lane wrote:

> > ... since I can't find an actual person to send complaints to
> > about the list.

Of course you can also look at the message headers and find the
list owner's address.  In this case: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org

> Marc Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> is the man to talk to about list
> problems.  IMHO he runs these lists pretty well (and yes, I have
> some experience as a list admin, too).

Agree and ditto.

Vince.
--
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH    email: vev@michvhf.com    http://www.pop4.net
         56K Nationwide Dialup from $16.00/mo at Pop4 Networking
        Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com
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==========================================================================

On Wed, May 01, 2002 at 10:33:00PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:

> Paul M Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com> writes:
> > No kidding! Every single time I send something to this list, I get all
> > the bounces coming back to me. I admin five lists, and bounces never go
> > back to the person posting, only the admin for handling. But not this
> > list.
>
> Oh?  AFAICT the PG lists mail out with envelope sender and Sender:
> header both pointing to list-bot addresses.  What else would you have
> it do?
>

Here's what it's supposed to do: 1) I send a message to the list. 2)
Listserv echos the message out to subscribers. 3) Subscriber X's email
is messed up. 4) Listserv receives a bounce because of this. 5) Listserv
emails a notice to the list admin, detailing the bounce.

Here's what _shouldn't_ happen: 5) Listserv emails a notice to the
original poster, detailing the bounce. Unfortunately, this is what
_does_ happen.

> As a frequent poster to the PG lists, I'm sure I see as many problems
> as anyone.  But they're rare.  Once in awhile some subscriber's mail
> software starts bouncing complaints back to the message author instead
> of the list-sender address.  I complain to Marc, he unsubscribes the
> offenders, and that's that.  I can't recall that there was ever more
> than one such bogosity active at the same time.
>

From my original post on this thread, I have received 37 bounces from
different addresses subscribed to the pg list. Be glad to forward them
if anyone cares to see. I didn't check all the headers, but on my
original post, the headers contain an Errors-To that points back to me.
In most other cases, Errors-To points to
pgsql-general-owner+M23998@postgresql.org. This is probably why this is
happening. But I don't have this with any other list. I'm posting to
postgresql-general@postgresql.org.

I'm used to getting bounces on the five lists I admin, just not on lists
I _don't_ admin. I haven't examined the headers on the current bounces
to determine why they might have come to me, though I doubt they'd be
much help, since the bounce messages are originating from the listserv.

> > ... since I can't find an actual person to send complaints to
> > about the list.
>
> Marc Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> is the man to talk to about list
> problems.  IMHO he runs these lists pretty well (and yes, I have
> some experience as a list admin, too).
>

Thanks. I'll CC Marc on this, and maybe he can assist.

Paul

Paul M Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com> writes:
> I didn't check all the headers, but on my
> original post, the headers contain an Errors-To that points back to me.

Hmm.  So does this one.  You sure you're not inserting that yourself?

            regards, tom lane

On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 08:42:20PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:

> Paul M Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com> writes:
> > I didn't check all the headers, but on my
> > original post, the headers contain an Errors-To that points back to me.
>
> Hmm.  So does this one.  You sure you're not inserting that yourself?
>
>             regards, tom lane

Guaranteed. I'm using mutt on Red Hat 7.2, with no provision for
massaging outbound mail that way. _Inbound_ mail goes through procmail
and spambouncer, so any number of things can happen to it that way. ;-}

Paul

Paul M Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com> writes:
> On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 08:42:20PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
>> Hmm.  So does this one.  You sure you're not inserting that yourself?

> Guaranteed. I'm using mutt on Red Hat 7.2, with no provision for
> massaging outbound mail that way.

Nonetheless, *something* in your outgoing mail path is sticking in the
errors-to header.  It's not postgresql.org (unless you think that that
machine is singling you out for special mistreatment).  Given the
header ordering:

Received: from glatton.cnchost.com (glatton.cnchost.com [207.155.248.47])
    by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE90A4758DD
    for <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>; Thu,  2 May 2002 23:15:42 -0400 (EDT)
Received: from quillandmouse.com (tamqfl1-ar4-4-47-193-218.tamqfl1.dsl-verizon.net [4.47.193.218])
    by glatton.cnchost.com
    id XAA19197; Thu, 2 May 2002 23:15:47 -0400 (EDT)
    [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14]
Errors-To: <paulf@quillandmouse.com>
Received: from paulf by quillandmouse.com with local (Exim 3.32 #1)
    id 173TYG-0005eH-00
    for pgsql-general@postgresql.org; Thu, 02 May 2002 23:16:08 -0400
Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 23:16:03 -0400
From: Paul M Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com>
To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org

I'd be inclined to bet that glatton.cnchost.com is the culprit.
But you shouldn't rule out the possibility that it's your own
machine doing it.

            regards, tom lane

On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 11:39:23PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:

> Paul M Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com> writes:
> > On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 08:42:20PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> >> Hmm.  So does this one.  You sure you're not inserting that yourself?
>
> > Guaranteed. I'm using mutt on Red Hat 7.2, with no provision for
> > massaging outbound mail that way.
>
> Nonetheless, *something* in your outgoing mail path is sticking in the
> errors-to header.

I'll bet you it's not. Samples of other outgoing mail show no such
Errors-To header.

Oddly enough, this email from you shows an Errors-To header with your
email address in it, whereas most others show the previously mentioned
address for the Errors-To.

> It's not postgresql.org (unless you think that that
> machine is singling you out for special mistreatment).

I believe it is. Though I suspect it has to do with the address I'm
sending to or somesuch. But again, I'm probably on fifteen other lists,
and none of the others act this way. Thus I must assume it is
configuration on the postgresql listserv.

> Given the
> header ordering:
>
> Received: from glatton.cnchost.com (glatton.cnchost.com [207.155.248.47])
>     by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE90A4758DD
>     for <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>; Thu,  2 May 2002 23:15:42 -0400
>     (EDT)
> Received: from quillandmouse.com
> (tamqfl1-ar4-4-47-193-218.tamqfl1.dsl-verizon.net [4.47.193.218])
>     by glatton.cnchost.com
>     id XAA19197; Thu, 2 May 2002 23:15:47 -0400 (EDT)
>     [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14]
> Errors-To: <paulf@quillandmouse.com>
> Received: from paulf by quillandmouse.com with local (Exim 3.32 #1)
>     id 173TYG-0005eH-00
>     for pgsql-general@postgresql.org; Thu, 02 May 2002 23:16:08 -0400
> Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 23:16:03 -0400
> From: Paul M Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com>
> To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
>
> I'd be inclined to bet that glatton.cnchost.com is the culprit.
> But you shouldn't rule out the possibility that it's your own
> machine doing it.

As I understand it, that particular header is mandated by RFC to be in
that spot, and has no bearing on who put it there or how.

Glatton is one of a rotating set of smtp hosts on XO. One of many, all
configured identically. Your postulate and the observed behavior would
imply that somehow I manage to get glatton every time I post to the pg
list, and only when I post to the pg list. Not possible.

My captures of outbound mail indicate no such Errors-To header in any of
them; in fact, no Errors-To header at all. I also know that Exim (my
MTA) isn't configured to do anything like this.

In any case, this is really off topic, and I don't want to aggravate the
people on the list any more with it. Hopefully, the list admin will
contact me. Tom, if you want to continue this, we can do it offlist.

Paul

On Thu, 2 May 2002, Tom Lane wrote:

> Paul M Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com> writes:
> > On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 08:42:20PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> >> Hmm.  So does this one.  You sure you're not inserting that yourself?
>
> > Guaranteed. I'm using mutt on Red Hat 7.2, with no provision for
> > massaging outbound mail that way.
>
> Nonetheless, *something* in your outgoing mail path is sticking in the
> errors-to header.  It's not postgresql.org (unless you think that that
> machine is singling you out for special mistreatment).  Given the
> header ordering:
>
> Received: from glatton.cnchost.com (glatton.cnchost.com [207.155.248.47])
>     by postgresql.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE90A4758DD
>     for <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>; Thu,  2 May 2002 23:15:42 -0400 (EDT)
> Received: from quillandmouse.com (tamqfl1-ar4-4-47-193-218.tamqfl1.dsl-verizon.net [4.47.193.218])
>     by glatton.cnchost.com
>     id XAA19197; Thu, 2 May 2002 23:15:47 -0400 (EDT)
>     [ConcentricHost SMTP Relay 1.14]
> Errors-To: <paulf@quillandmouse.com>
> Received: from paulf by quillandmouse.com with local (Exim 3.32 #1)
>     id 173TYG-0005eH-00
>     for pgsql-general@postgresql.org; Thu, 02 May 2002 23:16:08 -0400
> Date: Thu, 2 May 2002 23:16:03 -0400
> From: Paul M Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com>
> To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
>
> I'd be inclined to bet that glatton.cnchost.com is the culprit.
> But you shouldn't rule out the possibility that it's your own
> machine doing it.

Actually, I'd say its quillandmouse.com ... from what I believe you said
in anothe rmessage, the first thing that the MTA does is adds the
Received: header, after which it would add Errors-To: before sending on to
the next one ...  no?  Which means that its getting added *before*
glatton.cnchost.com ...

So, unless postgresql.org is rewritting the Received headers, its being
added before it reaches us ... and I just looked at your full headers, and
there is no Errors-To: line added there ...

Is it something that Exim adds in?

On Fri, 3 May 2002, Paul M Foster wrote:

> On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 11:39:23PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
>
> > Paul M Foster <paulf@quillandmouse.com> writes:
> > > On Thu, May 02, 2002 at 08:42:20PM -0400, Tom Lane wrote:
> > >> Hmm.  So does this one.  You sure you're not inserting that yourself?
> >
> > > Guaranteed. I'm using mutt on Red Hat 7.2, with no provision for
> > > massaging outbound mail that way.
> >
> > Nonetheless, *something* in your outgoing mail path is sticking in the
> > errors-to header.
>
> I'll bet you it's not. Samples of other outgoing mail show no such
> Errors-To header.
>
> Oddly enough, this email from you shows an Errors-To header with your
> email address in it, whereas most others show the previously mentioned
> address for the Errors-To.
>
> > It's not postgresql.org (unless you think that that
> > machine is singling you out for special mistreatment).
>
> I believe it is. Though I suspect it has to do with the address I'm
> sending to or somesuch. But again, I'm probably on fifteen other lists,
> and none of the others act this way. Thus I must assume it is
> configuration on the postgresql listserv.

Sorry, but if that were the case a) its not something we set up, and b)
other messages to the lists would be similarly tagged, and they aren't.
Also, the 'tag' is coming in *before* it even reaches postgresql.org ...