Обсуждение: Translation of the documentation
I'm starting a project to translate the PostgreSQL documentation to Brazilian Portuguese (pt-BR we'll try to keep it close to Portugal's Portuguese). This translation will be explicitely licensed under a free/open license. The current portuguese translation is not open. So my questions: 1) Can we contribute these docs to the PostgreSQL project? 2) What flags do we need to add to the docbook sources? (so that "make pt-BR" could be done, for example) 3) Under what license(s) should/must the translation be put? Thanks, -Roberto -- +----| http://fslc.usu.edu/ USU Free Software & GNU/Linux Club |------+ Roberto Mello - Computer Science, USU - http://www.brasileiro.net/ http://www.sdl.usu.edu/ - Space Dynamics Lab, Developer Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.
Roberto Mello writes: > 1) Can we contribute these docs to the PostgreSQL project? In general, yes. However, until there is an evident and sustained effort to keep these up to date, I'm not sure if we should keep them in the main source tree. > 2) What flags do we need to add to the docbook sources? (so that > "make pt-BR" could be done, for example) As far as DocBook sources, you put a lang="pt_br" attribute in the top-level element. As far as Makefiles, there are a couple of possibilities, depending on what becomes of 1). > 3) Under what license(s) should/must the translation be put? The current license? Btw., are you sure what you are getting into? A complete translation of the PG documentation is going to take an insane amount of time. You might also be interested in doing some translation work on program messages. See <http://www.postgresql.org/~petere/nls.php>. -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
> Btw., are you sure what you are getting into? A complete translation of
> the PG documentation is going to take an insane amount of time.
And once you're done, you face the ongoing herculean task of keeping it
up to date. You might care to compare 7.1 and 7.2 doc sets to get an
idea of the rate at which we change/extend/improve the docs.
Don't let me discourage you though, if you have the time available.
Just realize what you're signing up for.
regards, tom lane
On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 01:12:30PM -0500, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > > In general, yes. However, until there is an evident and sustained effort > to keep these up to date, I'm not sure if we should keep them in the main > source tree. Understandable. > As far as DocBook sources, you put a lang="pt_br" attribute in the > top-level element. As far as Makefiles, there are a couple of > possibilities, depending on what becomes of 1). Okay, sounds good. > The current license? What is the current license? BSD? Can this translation be put under something like the GFDL? > Btw., are you sure what you are getting into? A complete translation of > the PG documentation is going to take an insane amount of time. You might Oh, I'm not doing it alone, no sir. I'm starting a project and have been collecting volunteers to do the work with me. I'm spearheading (sp?) the project, but now way I'll do it alone. I have the same concerns with regards to maintainability. I won't take this ahead unless I know we have a sufficient number of people to maintain it. > also be interested in doing some translation work on program messages. > See <http://www.postgresql.org/~petere/nls.php>. Yes, I'm very interested in that too. I'm glad to see it off the ground. -Roberto -- +----| http://fslc.usu.edu/ USU Free Software & GNU/Linux Club |------+ Roberto Mello - Computer Science, USU - http://www.brasileiro.net/ http://www.sdl.usu.edu/ - Space Dynamics Lab, Developer If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.
Tom Lane wrote: > Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes: > > Btw., are you sure what you are getting into? A complete translation of > > the PG documentation is going to take an insane amount of time. > > And once you're done, you face the ongoing herculean task of keeping it > up to date. You might care to compare 7.1 and 7.2 doc sets to get an > idea of the rate at which we change/extend/improve the docs. > > Don't let me discourage you though, if you have the time available. > Just realize what you're signing up for. You may want to start with the ref/ manual pages. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 853-3000 + If your life is a hard drive, | 830 Blythe Avenue + Christ can be your backup. | Drexel Hill, Pennsylvania 19026
> Roberto Mello writes: > > > 1) Can we contribute these docs to the PostgreSQL project? > > In general, yes. However, until there is an evident and sustained effort > to keep these up to date, I'm not sure if we should keep them in the main > source tree. > > > 2) What flags do we need to add to the docbook sources? (so that > > "make pt-BR" could be done, for example) > > As far as DocBook sources, you put a lang="pt_br" attribute in the > top-level element. As far as Makefiles, there are a couple of > possibilities, depending on what becomes of 1). > > > 3) Under what license(s) should/must the translation be put? > > The current license? > > Btw., are you sure what you are getting into? A complete translation of > the PG documentation is going to take an insane amount of time. You might > also be interested in doing some translation work on program messages. > See <http://www.postgresql.org/~petere/nls.php>. > Using cvs diff and patching little by little periodically would save many time (althought still lots of work to do). I wish the documentation of different language could be maintained somewhere using cvs, thus we could encourage users of different languages to use it and make it better, in fact, I've done four version of it, from 6.5, 7.0, 7.1 to 7.2, and it seems those docs did very well in pushing the usage of PostgreSQL in China. And I wish the program messages could stable sometime later, especially those for backend, sometimes I'm doing `make update-po', there many message merged in and create too many `fuzzy' ones, and it would take lots of time to fix that. I can understand that, because there are many message still need to be done in source code, so I thing it's better for 7.3 loop to finished the whole NLS support. regards laser
Roberto Mello writes: > What is the current license? BSD? : Permission to use, copy, modify, and distribute this software and its : documentation for any purpose, without fee, and without a written agreement ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ : is hereby granted, provided that the above copyright notice and this : paragraph and the following two paragraphs appear in all copies. : [...] > Can this translation be put under something like the GFDL? That depends on what the GFDL says in detail, and as long as you obey the original license. Personally I think the GFDL is very complicated and unnecessary unless you're dead-sold on the GPL already. Especially for the PostgreSQL core we don't want to diverge from the existing licensing. -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net
Weiping He writes: > Using cvs diff and patching little by little periodically would save many time > (althought still lots of work to do). I wish the documentation of different language > could be maintained somewhere using cvs, thus we could encourage users of > different languages to use it and make it better, in fact, I've done four version of it, > from 6.5, 7.0, 7.1 to 7.2, and it seems those docs did very well in pushing the usage > of PostgreSQL in China. That's a great accomplishment! If you would like a CVS server and cannot set up one on your own site probably something can be worked out with postgresql.org. If people would like to setting up an integrated build system for general translations, I can try to help with that. We could probably auto-build and display them on the web site, too. In fact, we've had a couple of inquiries about this before, maybe it's time to do it now. > And I wish the program messages could stable sometime later, > especially those for backend, sometimes I'm doing `make update-po', > there many message merged in and create too many `fuzzy' ones, and it > would take lots of time to fix that. I can understand that, because there are > many message still need to be done in source code, so I thing it's better > for 7.3 loop to finished the whole NLS support. I think once you've actually done a full translation, keeping up from release to release should get much easier. Surely, there might be hundreds of strings you have to fix, but that's a matter of maybe 3 to 5 hours of work per release, if you just sit down and do it once at the end. I'm actually curious where NLS will go next release. This release has been a nice experience. -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net
Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> That's a great accomplishment! If you would like a CVS server and cannot
> set up one on your own site probably something can be worked out with
> postgresql.org. If people would like to setting up an integrated build
> system for general translations, I can try to help with that. We could
> probably auto-build and display them on the web site, too.
That's what I want, since many people often found the translated docs
through postgresql main site.
> I'm actually curious where NLS will go next release. This release has
> been a nice experience.
I think to integrate the error code would be a need. just error message
but no error code somtimes annoying
regards laser
On Wed, Jan 09, 2002 at 01:12:30PM -0500, Peter Eisentraut wrote: > > > 2) What flags do we need to add to the docbook sources? (so that > > "make pt-BR" could be done, for example) > > As far as DocBook sources, you put a lang="pt_br" attribute in the > top-level element. As far as Makefiles, there are a couple of > possibilities, depending on what becomes of 1). Sorry to be replying to this message after so long, but I just thought of this. So do we keep the same file names (e.g. user.sgml) or do you want us to rename the files to something different (e.g. user-pt_BR.sgml)? Translation is well under way. We have a project setup at Brazil's "sourceforge" codigolivre.org.br (which apparently will be part of the Savannah network). -Roberto -- +----| http://fslc.usu.edu/ USU Free Software & GNU/Linux Club |------+ Roberto Mello - Computer Science, USU - http://www.brasileiro.net/ http://www.sdl.usu.edu/ - Space Dynamics Lab, Developer All babies speak Klingonese.
Roberto Mello writes: > So do we keep the same file names (e.g. user.sgml) or do you want us to > rename the files to something different (e.g. user-pt_BR.sgml)? Keep the same file name. No need to make things complicated here. -- Peter Eisentraut peter_e@gmx.net