Обсуждение: Re: [COMMITTERS] pgsql: Another attempt at fixing Windows Norwegian locale.

On 01/16/2015 07:05 PM, Heikki Linnakangas wrote:
> On 01/16/2015 04:17 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
>> Heikki Linnakangas <heikki.linnakangas@iki.fi> writes:
>>> Backpatch to 9.2 like the previous attempt. We haven't made a release that
>>> includes the previous fix yet, so we don't need to worry about changing the
>>> locale of existing clusters from "norwegian-bokmal" to "Norwegian_Norway".
>>> (Doing any mapping like this at all requires changing the locale of
>>> existing databases; the release notes need to include instructions for
>>> that).
>>
>> What instructions do you have in mind to give?
>
> I wrote preliminary instructions here:
> http://www.postgresql.org/message-id/attachment/35205/fix-bokmal-pg_database.txt.
> Another method is to use pg_upgrade. I'll need to format that for the
> release notes, and add more explanation of what the issue is and who it
> applies to.
>
> Or perhaps it would be better to put those instructions on a wiki page,
> so that we can easily add to it later if necessary?

Ok, I have created a wiki page for these instructions:

http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Changes_To_Norwegian_Locale

They can be moved to the release notes, or we can just add a note there 
with a link to the wiki page. I think the latter would be better. 
Suggested reference in the release notes:

Migration to Version X

If you are a Windows user, using the "Norwegian (Bokmål)" locale, manual 
action is needed after the upgrade, to replace the "Norwegian 
(Bokmål)_Norway" locale names stored in system catalogs with its 
pure-ASCII alias, "Norwegian_Norway". More information is available at 
http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Changes_To_Norwegian_Locale

- Heikki

Heikki Linnakangas <hlinnakangas@vmware.com> writes:
> On 01/16/2015 07:05 PM, Heikki Linnakangas wrote:
>> On 01/16/2015 04:17 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
>>> What instructions do you have in mind to give?

> Ok, I have created a wiki page for these instructions:

> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Changes_To_Norwegian_Locale

> They can be moved to the release notes, or we can just add a note there 
> with a link to the wiki page. I think the latter would be better. 
> Suggested reference in the release notes:

> Migration to Version X

> If you are a Windows user, using the "Norwegian (Bokm�l)" locale, manual 
> action is needed after the upgrade, to replace the "Norwegian 
> (Bokm�l)_Norway" locale names stored in system catalogs with its 
> pure-ASCII alias, "Norwegian_Norway". More information is available at 
> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Changes_To_Norwegian_Locale

I've looked at this issue a bit now.  I'm good with using essentially this
text in the release notes, but I think the instructions are one brick shy
of a load.  Specifically, you claimed in the second commit that we'd not
made any releases using "norwegian-bokmal", but that's utterly wrong:
9.4.0 uses that spelling.  What advice do we need to give 9.4 users?
        regards, tom lane

On 01/31/2015 09:52 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
> Heikki Linnakangas <hlinnakangas@vmware.com> writes:
>> On 01/16/2015 07:05 PM, Heikki Linnakangas wrote:
>>> On 01/16/2015 04:17 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
>>>> What instructions do you have in mind to give?
>
>> Ok, I have created a wiki page for these instructions:
>
>> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Changes_To_Norwegian_Locale
>
>> They can be moved to the release notes, or we can just add a note there
>> with a link to the wiki page. I think the latter would be better.
>> Suggested reference in the release notes:
>
>> Migration to Version X
>
>> If you are a Windows user, using the "Norwegian (Bokmål)" locale, manual
>> action is needed after the upgrade, to replace the "Norwegian
>> (Bokmål)_Norway" locale names stored in system catalogs with its
>> pure-ASCII alias, "Norwegian_Norway". More information is available at
>> http://wiki.postgresql.org/wiki/Changes_To_Norwegian_Locale
>
> I've looked at this issue a bit now.  I'm good with using essentially this
> text in the release notes, but I think the instructions are one brick shy
> of a load.  Specifically, you claimed in the second commit that we'd not
> made any releases using "norwegian-bokmal", but that's utterly wrong:
> 9.4.0 uses that spelling.

Oops, I didn't realize that.

>  What advice do we need to give 9.4 users?

I just downloaded the 9.4 EDB Windows installer and tried installing it. 
initdb fails with the same error that I got after upgrading to more 
recent MSVC version. "select version()" on the EDB binaries says:
                           version
------------------------------------------------------------- PostgreSQL 9.4.0, compiled by Visual C++ build 1800,
64-bit
(1 row)

So there shouldn't be any existing Windows 9.4 installations that need 
manual fixing, because the current binaries will just fail.

If there are any Norwegian users that have built Windows binaries 
themselves, though, using an older MSVC version, then they would need to 
follow the same manual fix-up steps to replace the "norwegian-bokmal" 
locale names in pg_database with "Norwegian_Norway". Until they do, 
CREATE DATABASE won't work (except with template=template0).


I suggest that we simply remove the notice about running the manual 
steps from the 9.4.1 release notes.

- Heikki

Heikki Linnakangas <hlinnakangas@vmware.com> writes:
> On 01/31/2015 09:52 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
>> What advice do we need to give 9.4 users?

> I just downloaded the 9.4 EDB Windows installer and tried installing it. 
> initdb fails with the same error that I got after upgrading to more 
> recent MSVC version. "select version()" on the EDB binaries says:

>                             version
> -------------------------------------------------------------
>   PostgreSQL 9.4.0, compiled by Visual C++ build 1800, 64-bit
> (1 row)

> So there shouldn't be any existing Windows 9.4 installations that need 
> manual fixing, because the current binaries will just fail.

> If there are any Norwegian users that have built Windows binaries 
> themselves, though, using an older MSVC version, then they would need to 
> follow the same manual fix-up steps to replace the "norwegian-bokmal" 
> locale names in pg_database with "Norwegian_Norway". Until they do, 
> CREATE DATABASE won't work (except with template=template0).

> I suggest that we simply remove the notice about running the manual 
> steps from the 9.4.1 release notes.

Hm.  My understanding of the situation was that the "norwegian-bokmal"
solution worked on some Windows versions but not others.  So it seems
like the risk for 9.4 users is that they installed on a version where
"norwegian-bokmal" works and then someday want to migrate the database
to one where it doesn't.  Maybe we don't need to address that, but
I'm strongly tempted to keep the same instructions but phrase them
as "change norwegian-bokmal to Norwegian_Norway if it's there".
        regards, tom lane

On 02/01/2015 04:56 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
> Heikki Linnakangas <hlinnakangas@vmware.com> writes:
>> On 01/31/2015 09:52 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
>>> What advice do we need to give 9.4 users?
>
>> I just downloaded the 9.4 EDB Windows installer and tried installing it.
>> initdb fails with the same error that I got after upgrading to more
>> recent MSVC version. "select version()" on the EDB binaries says:
>
>>                              version
>> -------------------------------------------------------------
>>    PostgreSQL 9.4.0, compiled by Visual C++ build 1800, 64-bit
>> (1 row)
>
>> So there shouldn't be any existing Windows 9.4 installations that need
>> manual fixing, because the current binaries will just fail.
>
>> If there are any Norwegian users that have built Windows binaries
>> themselves, though, using an older MSVC version, then they would need to
>> follow the same manual fix-up steps to replace the "norwegian-bokmal"
>> locale names in pg_database with "Norwegian_Norway". Until they do,
>> CREATE DATABASE won't work (except with template=template0).
>
>> I suggest that we simply remove the notice about running the manual
>> steps from the 9.4.1 release notes.
>
> Hm.  My understanding of the situation was that the "norwegian-bokmal"
> solution worked on some Windows versions but not others.

I'm no Windows expert, but believe that it's not the Windows version 
you're running on that matters, but the CRT library used when building 
the binaries.

> So it seems like the risk for 9.4 users is that they installed on a
> version where "norwegian-bokmal" works and then someday want to
> migrate the database to one where it doesn't.  Maybe we don't need to
> address that, but I'm strongly tempted to keep the same instructions
> but phrase them as "change norwegian-bokmal to Norwegian_Norway if
> it's there".

That's fine by me, that advice is correct, although I believe that you 
only encounter that situation if you had built the binaries yourself 
with an older MSVC version.

- Heikki

Heikki Linnakangas <hlinnakangas@vmware.com> writes:
> On 02/01/2015 04:56 PM, Tom Lane wrote:
>> Hm.  My understanding of the situation was that the "norwegian-bokmal"
>> solution worked on some Windows versions but not others.

> I'm no Windows expert, but believe that it's not the Windows version 
> you're running on that matters, but the CRT library used when building 
> the binaries.

I see.  Still, it's not too hard to credit that one might switch to a new
set of binaries built with a different library version.

>> So it seems like the risk for 9.4 users is that they installed on a
>> version where "norwegian-bokmal" works and then someday want to
>> migrate the database to one where it doesn't.  Maybe we don't need to
>> address that, but I'm strongly tempted to keep the same instructions
>> but phrase them as "change norwegian-bokmal to Norwegian_Norway if
>> it's there".

> That's fine by me, that advice is correct, although I believe that you 
> only encounter that situation if you had built the binaries yourself 
> with an older MSVC version.

OK, I'll make it so.
        regards, tom lane