Обсуждение: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

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wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Pavel Stehule
Дата:
It works perfect with pager "less", but it works badly with default "more"

see attached screenshots, pls

It is expected behave?

Regards

Pavel
Вложения

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Emre Hasegeli
Дата:
Pavel Stehule <pavel.stehule@gmail.com>:
> Hello
>
> I am checking feature
> http://git.postgresql.org/gitweb/?p=postgresql.git;a=commitdiff;h=6513633b94173fc1d9e2b213c43f9422ddbf5faa
>
> It works perfect with pager "less", but it works badly with default "more"
>
> see attached screenshots, pls
>
> It is expected behave?

I do not think so. It looks broken with or without any pager when
border != 2. Your less configuration might be hiding the problem from you.

I think it is because of miscalculation of the width used by
the separators. Increasing this variable for border = 0 and 1 fixed
the problem, but it might not be the right fix. The patch without
regression test changes attached.

While looking at it, I found another problem. It seems to me, a minus sign
is missing after -[RECORD  ] when border = 1.

Вложения

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Tom Lane
Дата:
Emre Hasegeli <emre@hasegeli.com> writes:
> Pavel Stehule <pavel.stehule@gmail.com>:
>> I am checking feature
>> http://git.postgresql.org/gitweb/?p=postgresql.git;a=commitdiff;h=6513633b94173fc1d9e2b213c43f9422ddbf5faa
>> 
>> It works perfect with pager "less", but it works badly with default "more"

> I do not think so. It looks broken with or without any pager when
> border != 2. Your less configuration might be hiding the problem from you.

This seems broken in several ways.  I tried this test case:

regression=# \x \pset format wrapped
Expanded display (expanded) is on.
Output format (format) is wrapped.
regression=# select * from pg_proc where prolang!=12;

In 9.3, the output looks like this:

-[ RECORD 1 ]---+---------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------
proname         | to_timestamp
pronamespace    | 11
proowner        | 10
prolang         | 14
procost         | 1
prorows         | 0
provariadic     | 0
protransform    | -
...

In HEAD, I see:

-[ RECORD 1 ]---+---------------------------------------------------------------proname         | to_timestamp
                                       pronamespace    | 11
proowner       | 10                                                            prolang         | 14
                                      procost         | 1
prorows        | 0                                                             provariadic     | 0
                                      protransform    | -                                                             
 
After "\pset columns 77" it looks a little better:

-[ RECORD 1 ]---+------------------------------------------------------------proname         | to_timestamp
                                  pronamespace    | 11
proowner       | 10                                                          prolang         | 14
                                  procost         | 1                                                           prorows
       | 0                                                           provariadic     | 0
                          protransform    | -                                                           proisagg
|f                                                           proiswindow     | f
                  
 

but where did those leading spaces come from?  The header line is
definitely not on board with that, and I think those spaces are
contributing to the lines being too long for the window.  I think
possibly the code is also adding a space that shouldn't be there
at the end of the lines, because it prints lines that wrap around
if I \pset columns to either 79 or 80 in an 80-column window, so
the accounting is off by 2 someplace.

Also, this code looks quite broken:
        width = dwidth + swidth + hwidth;        if ((output_columns > 0) && (width > output_columns))        {
  dwidth = output_columns - hwidth - swidth;            width = output_columns;        }
 

What happens if output_columns is less than hwidth + swidth?  The code
goes crazy is what happens, because all of these are unsigned ints and so
wraparound leads to setting dwidth to something approaching 4 billion.
Try the same example after "\pset columns 10".  I don't necessarily expect
it to produce beautiful output, but I do expect it to not lock up.
        regards, tom lane



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> but where did those leading spaces come from?  The header line is
> definitely not on board with that, and I think those spaces are
> contributing to the lines being too long for the window.  I think
> possibly the code is also adding a space that shouldn't be there
> at the end of the lines, because it prints lines that wrap around
> if I \pset columns to either 79 or 80 in an 80-column window, so
> the accounting is off by 2 someplace.

Hm, there was an off by one error earlier in some cases, maybe we
fixed it by breaking other case. Will investigate.


-- 
greg



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> wrote:
> Hm, there was an off by one error earlier in some cases, maybe we
> fixed it by breaking other case. Will investigate.

Those spaces are coming from the ascii wrapping indicators. i.e. the periods in:

+-----------------+--------------------+
|        a       +|         a         +|
|                +|         b          |
|        b        |                    |
+-----------------+--------------------+
| xx              | yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy |
| xxxx           +| yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy  +|
| xxxxxx         +| yyyyyyyyyyyyyy    +|
| xxxxxxxx       +| yyyyyyyyyyyy      +|
| xxxxxxxxxx     +| yyyyyyyyyy        +|
| xxxxxxxxxxxx   +| yyyyyyyy          +|
| xxxxxxxxxxxxxx +| yyyyyy            +|
| xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.| yyyy              +|
|.x              +| yy                +|
| xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.|                    |
|.xxx            +|                    |
| xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.|                    |
|.xxxxx           |                    |
+-----------------+--------------------+

Apparently we used to print those with border=1 in normal mode but in
expanded mode we left out the space for those on the outermost edges
since there was no need for them. If we put them in for wrapped mode
then we'll be inconsistent if we don't for nonwrapped mode though. And
if we don't put them in for wrapped mode then there's no way to
indicate wrapping versus newlines.

The biggest difference it makes is that in the border=1 mode the lines
ended at the end of the data previously. Now it's expanded to fill the
rectangle because of the plus symbols. ie. It used to look like:

-[ RECORD 1 ]-----------
a | xx |
b |
a | yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
b |
-[ RECORD 2 ]-----------
a | xxxx | xxxxxx
b | xxxxxxxx | xxxxxxxxxx | xxxxxxxxxxxx | xxxxxxxxxxxxxx | xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx | xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
a | yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
b | yyyyyyyyyyyyyy | yyyyyyyyyyyy | yyyyyyyyyy | yyyyyyyy | yyyyyy | yyyy | yy |

and now looks like:

-[ RECORD 1 ]-----------a+| xx +|b |a+| yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyb |
-[ RECORD 2 ]-----------a+| xxxx                + +| xxxxxx              +b | xxxxxxxx            +  | xxxxxxxxxx
  +  | xxxxxxxxxxxx        +  | xxxxxxxxxxxxxx      +  | xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx    +  | xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx  +  |
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxa+|yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy    +b | yyyyyyyyyyyyyy      +  | yyyyyyyyyyyy        +  | yyyyyyyyyy          +
| yyyyyyyy            +  | yyyyyy              +  | yyyy                +  | yy                  +  |
 



-- 
greg



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Tom Lane
Дата:
Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> writes:
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> wrote:
>> Hm, there was an off by one error earlier in some cases, maybe we
>> fixed it by breaking other case. Will investigate.

> Those spaces are coming from the ascii wrapping indicators. i.e. the periods in:

Ah.  I wonder whether anyone will complain that the format changed?

> Apparently we used to print those with border=1 in normal mode but in
> expanded mode we left out the space for those on the outermost edges
> since there was no need for them. If we put them in for wrapped mode
> then we'll be inconsistent if we don't for nonwrapped mode though. And
> if we don't put them in for wrapped mode then there's no way to
> indicate wrapping versus newlines.

Barring anyone complaining that the format changed, I'd say the issue
is not that you added them but that the accounting for line length
fails to include them.
        regards, tom lane



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Sergey Muraviov
Дата:
Hi.

I'll try to fix it tomorrow.


2014-05-12 18:42 GMT+04:00 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>:
Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> writes:
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> wrote:
>> Hm, there was an off by one error earlier in some cases, maybe we
>> fixed it by breaking other case. Will investigate.

> Those spaces are coming from the ascii wrapping indicators. i.e. the periods in:

Ah.  I wonder whether anyone will complain that the format changed?

> Apparently we used to print those with border=1 in normal mode but in
> expanded mode we left out the space for those on the outermost edges
> since there was no need for them. If we put them in for wrapped mode
> then we'll be inconsistent if we don't for nonwrapped mode though. And
> if we don't put them in for wrapped mode then there's no way to
> indicate wrapping versus newlines.

Barring anyone complaining that the format changed, I'd say the issue
is not that you added them but that the accounting for line length
fails to include them.

                        regards, tom lane



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Sergey Muraviov
Дата:
Please check this patch.


2014-05-12 22:56 GMT+04:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:
Hi.

I'll try to fix it tomorrow.


2014-05-12 18:42 GMT+04:00 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>:

Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> writes:
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> wrote:
>> Hm, there was an off by one error earlier in some cases, maybe we
>> fixed it by breaking other case. Will investigate.

> Those spaces are coming from the ascii wrapping indicators. i.e. the periods in:

Ah.  I wonder whether anyone will complain that the format changed?

> Apparently we used to print those with border=1 in normal mode but in
> expanded mode we left out the space for those on the outermost edges
> since there was no need for them. If we put them in for wrapped mode
> then we'll be inconsistent if we don't for nonwrapped mode though. And
> if we don't put them in for wrapped mode then there's no way to
> indicate wrapping versus newlines.

Barring anyone complaining that the format changed, I'd say the issue
is not that you added them but that the accounting for line length
fails to include them.

                        regards, tom lane



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov



--
Best regards,
Sergey MuraviovH
Вложения

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Pavel Stehule
Дата:
Hello

With this patch it works perfect

Thank you

Regards

Pavel


2014-05-13 21:33 GMT+02:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:
Please check this patch.


2014-05-12 22:56 GMT+04:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:

Hi.

I'll try to fix it tomorrow.


2014-05-12 18:42 GMT+04:00 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>:

Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> writes:
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> wrote:
>> Hm, there was an off by one error earlier in some cases, maybe we
>> fixed it by breaking other case. Will investigate.

> Those spaces are coming from the ascii wrapping indicators. i.e. the periods in:

Ah.  I wonder whether anyone will complain that the format changed?

> Apparently we used to print those with border=1 in normal mode but in
> expanded mode we left out the space for those on the outermost edges
> since there was no need for them. If we put them in for wrapped mode
> then we'll be inconsistent if we don't for nonwrapped mode though. And
> if we don't put them in for wrapped mode then there's no way to
> indicate wrapping versus newlines.

Barring anyone complaining that the format changed, I'd say the issue
is not that you added them but that the accounting for line length
fails to include them.

                        regards, tom lane



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov



--
Best regards,
Sergey MuraviovH

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Pavel Stehule
Дата:
sorry

there is still small issue

I have a plpgsql function:

CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION public.foo_update_trg()
 RETURNS trigger
 LANGUAGE plpgsql
AS $function$
DECLARE t text;
BEGIN
  EXECUTE format('SELECT $1.%I', TG_ARGV[0]) INTO t USING old;
  RAISE NOTICE 'original value of "%" is "%"', TG_ARGV[0], t;
  RETURN NULL;
END;
$function$

Default expanded view of select * from pg_proc where proname = 'foo_update_trg'; is little bit broken (screenshoot 1)

After wrap mode, it add useless new line into source code (screenshoot 2)

but border2 fixes it (screenshots 3)

Regards

Pavel



2014-05-14 8:32 GMT+02:00 Pavel Stehule <pavel.stehule@gmail.com>:
Hello

With this patch it works perfect

Thank you

Regards

Pavel


2014-05-13 21:33 GMT+02:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:

Please check this patch.


2014-05-12 22:56 GMT+04:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:

Hi.

I'll try to fix it tomorrow.


2014-05-12 18:42 GMT+04:00 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>:

Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> writes:
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> wrote:
>> Hm, there was an off by one error earlier in some cases, maybe we
>> fixed it by breaking other case. Will investigate.

> Those spaces are coming from the ascii wrapping indicators. i.e. the periods in:

Ah.  I wonder whether anyone will complain that the format changed?

> Apparently we used to print those with border=1 in normal mode but in
> expanded mode we left out the space for those on the outermost edges
> since there was no need for them. If we put them in for wrapped mode
> then we'll be inconsistent if we don't for nonwrapped mode though. And
> if we don't put them in for wrapped mode then there's no way to
> indicate wrapping versus newlines.

Barring anyone complaining that the format changed, I'd say the issue
is not that you added them but that the accounting for line length
fails to include them.

                        regards, tom lane



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov



--
Best regards,
Sergey MuraviovH


Вложения

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Sergey Muraviov
Дата:
Hi.
Please review the new patch.

PS
Issues which were described by Tom and Pavel were relevant to single-line headers.
So I've added appropriate regression tests to the patch.

I've also attached complex regression tests for unicode linestyle and multibyte symbols.


2014-05-14 10:55 GMT+04:00 Pavel Stehule <pavel.stehule@gmail.com>:
sorry

there is still small issue

I have a plpgsql function:

CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION public.foo_update_trg()
 RETURNS trigger
 LANGUAGE plpgsql
AS $function$
DECLARE t text;
BEGIN
  EXECUTE format('SELECT $1.%I', TG_ARGV[0]) INTO t USING old;
  RAISE NOTICE 'original value of "%" is "%"', TG_ARGV[0], t;
  RETURN NULL;
END;
$function$

Default expanded view of select * from pg_proc where proname = 'foo_update_trg'; is little bit broken (screenshoot 1)

After wrap mode, it add useless new line into source code (screenshoot 2)

but border2 fixes it (screenshots 3)

Regards

Pavel



2014-05-14 8:32 GMT+02:00 Pavel Stehule <pavel.stehule@gmail.com>:

Hello

With this patch it works perfect

Thank you

Regards

Pavel


2014-05-13 21:33 GMT+02:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:

Please check this patch.


2014-05-12 22:56 GMT+04:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:

Hi.

I'll try to fix it tomorrow.


2014-05-12 18:42 GMT+04:00 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>:

Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> writes:
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> wrote:
>> Hm, there was an off by one error earlier in some cases, maybe we
>> fixed it by breaking other case. Will investigate.

> Those spaces are coming from the ascii wrapping indicators. i.e. the periods in:

Ah.  I wonder whether anyone will complain that the format changed?

> Apparently we used to print those with border=1 in normal mode but in
> expanded mode we left out the space for those on the outermost edges
> since there was no need for them. If we put them in for wrapped mode
> then we'll be inconsistent if we don't for nonwrapped mode though. And
> if we don't put them in for wrapped mode then there's no way to
> indicate wrapping versus newlines.

Barring anyone complaining that the format changed, I'd say the issue
is not that you added them but that the accounting for line length
fails to include them.

                        regards, tom lane



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov



--
Best regards,
Sergey MuraviovH





--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov
Вложения

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Pavel Stehule
Дата:
Hello


2014-05-15 15:04 GMT+02:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:
Hi.
Please review the new patch.

This version works perfect

Regards

Pavel
 

PS
Issues which were described by Tom and Pavel were relevant to single-line headers.
So I've added appropriate regression tests to the patch.

I've also attached complex regression tests for unicode linestyle and multibyte symbols.


2014-05-14 10:55 GMT+04:00 Pavel Stehule <pavel.stehule@gmail.com>:

sorry

there is still small issue

I have a plpgsql function:

CREATE OR REPLACE FUNCTION public.foo_update_trg()
 RETURNS trigger
 LANGUAGE plpgsql
AS $function$
DECLARE t text;
BEGIN
  EXECUTE format('SELECT $1.%I', TG_ARGV[0]) INTO t USING old;
  RAISE NOTICE 'original value of "%" is "%"', TG_ARGV[0], t;
  RETURN NULL;
END;
$function$

Default expanded view of select * from pg_proc where proname = 'foo_update_trg'; is little bit broken (screenshoot 1)

After wrap mode, it add useless new line into source code (screenshoot 2)

but border2 fixes it (screenshots 3)

Regards

Pavel



2014-05-14 8:32 GMT+02:00 Pavel Stehule <pavel.stehule@gmail.com>:

Hello

With this patch it works perfect

Thank you

Regards

Pavel


2014-05-13 21:33 GMT+02:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:

Please check this patch.


2014-05-12 22:56 GMT+04:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:

Hi.

I'll try to fix it tomorrow.


2014-05-12 18:42 GMT+04:00 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>:

Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> writes:
> On Mon, May 12, 2014 at 2:12 PM, Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> wrote:
>> Hm, there was an off by one error earlier in some cases, maybe we
>> fixed it by breaking other case. Will investigate.

> Those spaces are coming from the ascii wrapping indicators. i.e. the periods in:

Ah.  I wonder whether anyone will complain that the format changed?

> Apparently we used to print those with border=1 in normal mode but in
> expanded mode we left out the space for those on the outermost edges
> since there was no need for them. If we put them in for wrapped mode
> then we'll be inconsistent if we don't for nonwrapped mode though. And
> if we don't put them in for wrapped mode then there's no way to
> indicate wrapping versus newlines.

Barring anyone complaining that the format changed, I'd say the issue
is not that you added them but that the accounting for line length
fails to include them.

                        regards, tom lane



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov



--
Best regards,
Sergey MuraviovH





--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
I'm trying to review all the combinations of the options exhaustively
but in the process I noticed a few pre-existing psql oddities. Both of
these are present in 9.3:

Can anyone explain this? It's linestyle=old-style, border=1,
expanded=off, format=aligned. It looks like it's using new-style ascii
indicators in the header but old-style in the data cells:
         a           |         a
+                     |+        b
+         b           |+
----------------------+--------------------xx                   | yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyxxxx                 |
yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyxxxxxx              : yyyyyyyyyyyyyyxxxxxxxx             : yyyyyyyyyyyyxxxxxxxxxx           :
yyyyyyyyyyxxxxxxxxxxxx        : yyyyyyyyxxxxxxxxxxxxxx       : yyyyyyxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx     : yyyyxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   :
yyxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:
 
(2 rows)

Also the line-ending white-space is very odd here. It's
linestyle=old-ascii, border=0, expanded=off, format=aligned. There's
an extra space on the header and the first line of the data, but not
on the subsequent lines of the data:
        a                   a                   +        b        b          +
-------------------- ------------------
xx                   yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
xxxx                 yyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy
xxxxxx               yyyyyyyyyyyyyy
xxxxxxxx             yyyyyyyyyyyy
xxxxxxxxxx           yyyyyyyyyy
xxxxxxxxxxxx         yyyyyyyy
xxxxxxxxxxxxxx       yyyyyy
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx     yyyy
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx   yy
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
(2 rows)



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
Sorry, a couple things still look to not be quite right.

1) The width of the table when linestyle=old-ascii and border=0 or
border=1 (and expanded=on and format=wrapped) seems to off by one.

2) The hyphens following the RECORD NN are short by one

I'm surprised the last patch was so big since it sounded like a simple
off-by-one bug. It looks like you've removed the leading space on the
border=0 expanded case. I guess that makes sense but we should
probably stop making significant changes now and just focus on fixing
the off by one bugs.



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Sergey Muraviov
Дата:
I found some new bugs and fix them.
And I had to make many changes.


2014-05-17 21:31 GMT+04:00 Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu>:
Sorry, a couple things still look to not be quite right.

1) The width of the table when linestyle=old-ascii and border=0 or
border=1 (and expanded=on and format=wrapped) seems to off by one.

2) The hyphens following the RECORD NN are short by one

I'm surprised the last patch was so big since it sounded like a simple
off-by-one bug. It looks like you've removed the leading space on the
border=0 expanded case. I guess that makes sense but we should
probably stop making significant changes now and just focus on fixing
the off by one bugs.



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov
Вложения

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Alvaro Herrera
Дата:
Sergey Muraviov wrote:
> I found some new bugs and fix them.
> And I had to make many changes.

This version fixes some bugs I had noticed in expanded mode too.  For instance,
the original looked like this (five lines plus header):

-[ RECORD 49 ]-----+-------------------------------------------------------------------------pg_identify_object |
(rule,,,"""_RETURN""on pg_catalog.pg_available_extension_versions")     
 
pg_identify_object | (view,pg_catalog,pg_available_extension_versions,pg_catalog.pg_availabl
e.                   |._extension_versions)                                                     


whereas it's correctly only three lines plus header with this patch
applied.  I can't tell whether this patch is minimal enough.

Having a more comprehensive test case is good, of course, though I
didn't check the expected file.  Note that some things cannot be tested
correctly in this way, namely column count that actually match the
terminal -- to wit: I had to add line breaks manually to the above paste
so that it would look like what it does in my terminal.  If I just paste
it, it looks correct, but then my email terminal is wider than the one I
ran psql in.  I would presume that failure to account for this is what
caused (some of?) the bugs being fixed now ...

-- 
Álvaro Herrera                http://www.2ndQuadrant.com/
PostgreSQL Development, 24x7 Support, Training & Services



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Pavel Stehule
Дата:
Hello

where we are with this feature?

Is there some barriers to commit bugfix?

Regards

Pavel


2014-05-18 19:46 GMT+02:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:
I found some new bugs and fix them.
And I had to make many changes.


2014-05-17 21:31 GMT+04:00 Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu>:

Sorry, a couple things still look to not be quite right.

1) The width of the table when linestyle=old-ascii and border=0 or
border=1 (and expanded=on and format=wrapped) seems to off by one.

2) The hyphens following the RECORD NN are short by one

I'm surprised the last patch was so big since it sounded like a simple
off-by-one bug. It looks like you've removed the leading space on the
border=0 expanded case. I guess that makes sense but we should
probably stop making significant changes now and just focus on fixing
the off by one bugs.



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Noah Misch
Дата:
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 10:10:23AM -0400, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Sergey Muraviov wrote:
> > I found some new bugs and fix them.
> > And I had to make many changes.
>
> This version fixes some bugs I had noticed in expanded mode too.  For instance,
> the original looked like this (five lines plus header):
>
> -[ RECORD 49 ]-----+-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>  pg_identify_object | (rule,,,"""_RETURN"" on pg_catalog.pg_available_extension_versions")
>
>  pg_identify_object | (view,pg_catalog,pg_available_extension_versions,pg_catalog.pg_availabl
> e.
>                     |._extension_versions)
>
>
> whereas it's correctly only three lines plus header with this patch
> applied.

I had noticed a similar-looking behavior change with aligned format and
expanded display, so I gave psql-wrapped-expanded-fix-v4.patch a spin with
this test case:

\pset expanded on
\pset format aligned
select repeat('a', 2) union all select repeat('a', 500);

The patch did not restore 9.3 behavior for that one.  Starting with commit
6513633, the first line of letters is space-padded on the right to the width
of the second line of letters.  To illustrate, I have attached raw psql output
from both commit 6513633 and its predecessor.  Also note that
psql-wrapped-expanded-fix-v4.patch expands each [ RECORD x ] header from 509
bytes to 511 bytes; 509 is the longstanding width.

Thanks,
nm

--
Noah Misch
EnterpriseDB                                 http://www.enterprisedb.com

Вложения

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Peter Eisentraut
Дата:
On 6/8/14, 11:29 PM, Noah Misch wrote:
> The patch did not restore 9.3 behavior for that one.  Starting with commit
> 6513633, the first line of letters is space-padded on the right to the width
> of the second line of letters.  To illustrate, I have attached raw psql output
> from both commit 6513633 and its predecessor.  Also note that
> psql-wrapped-expanded-fix-v4.patch expands each [ RECORD x ] header from 509
> bytes to 511 bytes; 509 is the longstanding width.

I noticed that (or perhaps a related) problem today.  Here is a simple demo:

psql -X -q -t -x -c 'select * from (values (1),(2)) as _ (col)'

9.3:

col | 1
----+--
col | 2

9.4:
col | 1
----+--col | 2


This breaks check_postgres.  (Why check_postgres doesn't use unaligned
output is beyond me.)




Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 7:52 PM, Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> wrote:
> On 6/8/14, 11:29 PM, Noah Misch wrote:
>> The patch did not restore 9.3 behavior for that one.  Starting with commit
>> 6513633, the first line of letters is space-padded on the right to the width
>> of the second line of letters.  To illustrate, I have attached raw psql output
>> from both commit 6513633 and its predecessor.  Also note that
>> psql-wrapped-expanded-fix-v4.patch expands each [ RECORD x ] header from 509
>> bytes to 511 bytes; 509 is the longstanding width.
>
> I noticed that (or perhaps a related) problem today.  Here is a simple demo:

I don't think these two issues are related.

The leading space that you (ie Peter) are complaining about in:
col | 1
----+--col | 2

Is there because if the cell wrapped it would get an ellipsis (ie
'...' but it's a single unicode character) in that column to indicate
that it's wrapped. However we don't wrap headers so the only reason to
change it is for the "old-ascii" linestyle:

stark=***# select * from (values (1),(2)) as _ ("col
col");
stark"***#col | 1
+col ;
-----+-----col | 2
+col ;

Noah's complaint is about the space padding on the *right*. Ie

stark=***# select * from (values ('foo'),('foo bar baz')) as _ ("col");col | foo        <- This is the end of the line
-----+--------------------------------------------------------------------------<-
This is the end of the linecol | foo bar baz        <- This is the end of the line

We didn't used to do that in expanded and I kind of agree it would be
nice to avoid. But then there are lots of cases where it would still
be necessary:

stark=***# select * from (values ('foo'),('foo barbaz')) as _ ("col");
stark'***#col | foo        <- This is the end of the line
-----+--------------------------------------------------------------------------<-
This is the end of the linecol | foo bar       +<- This is the end of the line    |  baz       <- This is the end of
theline
 

Obviously we would need to space padd to insert the "+" there.

I think this whole exercise has mostly just convinced me we should
implement an HTTP interface and reimplement psql as a browser app.

-- 
greg



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
And Gmail has thoroughly mangled that email. Let me see if I can
resend it from Emacs more clearly.



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Noah Misch
Дата:
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 08:59:34PM +0100, Greg Stark wrote:
> The leading space that you (ie Peter) are complaining about in:
> 
>  col | 1
> ----+--
>  col | 2
> 
> Is there because if the cell wrapped it would get an ellipsis (ie
> '...' but it's a single unicode character) in that column to indicate
> that it's wrapped. However we don't wrap headers so the only reason to
> change it is for the "old-ascii" linestyle:
> 
> stark=***# select * from (values (1),(2)) as _ ("col
> col");
> stark"***#
>  col | 1
> +col ;
> -----+-----
>  col | 2
> +col ;
> 
> Noah's complaint is about the space padding on the *right*. Ie
> 
> stark=***# select * from (values ('foo'),('foo bar baz')) as _ ("col");
>  col | foo
>          <- This is the end of the line
> -----+--------------------------------------------------------------------------<-
> This is the end of the line
>  col | foo bar baz
>          <- This is the end of the line
> 
> We didn't used to do that in expanded and I kind of agree it would be
> nice to avoid.

Based on the commit message and procedural history, I thought commit 6513633
was changing behavior solely for the combination of "\pset expanded" and
"\pset format wrapped".  Peter's and my test cases show that it also changed
behavior for "\pset expanded" alone.  That's a bug, unless someone sees to
argue that the new "\pset expanded" behavior is a desirable improvement in
spite of its origin as an accident.  Altering an entrenched psql output format
is a big deal.

-- 
Noah Misch
EnterpriseDB                                 http://www.enterprisedb.com



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Tom Lane
Дата:
Noah Misch <noah@leadboat.com> writes:
> Based on the commit message and procedural history, I thought commit 6513633
> was changing behavior solely for the combination of "\pset expanded" and
> "\pset format wrapped".  Peter's and my test cases show that it also changed
> behavior for "\pset expanded" alone.  That's a bug, unless someone sees to
> argue that the new "\pset expanded" behavior is a desirable improvement in
> spite of its origin as an accident.  Altering an entrenched psql output format
> is a big deal.

TBH I'm wondering if we shouldn't just revert that patch (and the
subsequent fix attempts).  It was not a major feature and I'm thinking
we have better things to do right now than try to fix the multiple
logic holes it evidently has.  The author's certainly welcome to try
again with a more carefully thought-through patch for 9.5.
        regards, tom lane



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Sergey Muraviov
Дата:
Hi.

I tried to take into account all of yours comments.

PS
This patch prints newline indicators in aligned mode, but this functionality can be easily disabled.

PPS
I'm on vacations now and don't read mail everyday.


2014-06-12 6:16 GMT+04:00 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>:
Noah Misch <noah@leadboat.com> writes:
> Based on the commit message and procedural history, I thought commit 6513633
> was changing behavior solely for the combination of "\pset expanded" and
> "\pset format wrapped".  Peter's and my test cases show that it also changed
> behavior for "\pset expanded" alone.  That's a bug, unless someone sees to
> argue that the new "\pset expanded" behavior is a desirable improvement in
> spite of its origin as an accident.  Altering an entrenched psql output format
> is a big deal.

TBH I'm wondering if we shouldn't just revert that patch (and the
subsequent fix attempts).  It was not a major feature and I'm thinking
we have better things to do right now than try to fix the multiple
logic holes it evidently has.  The author's certainly welcome to try
again with a more carefully thought-through patch for 9.5.

                        regards, tom lane



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov
Вложения

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Robert Haas
Дата:
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 10:16 PM, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote:
> Noah Misch <noah@leadboat.com> writes:
>> Based on the commit message and procedural history, I thought commit 6513633
>> was changing behavior solely for the combination of "\pset expanded" and
>> "\pset format wrapped".  Peter's and my test cases show that it also changed
>> behavior for "\pset expanded" alone.  That's a bug, unless someone sees to
>> argue that the new "\pset expanded" behavior is a desirable improvement in
>> spite of its origin as an accident.  Altering an entrenched psql output format
>> is a big deal.
>
> TBH I'm wondering if we shouldn't just revert that patch (and the
> subsequent fix attempts).  It was not a major feature and I'm thinking
> we have better things to do right now than try to fix the multiple
> logic holes it evidently has.  The author's certainly welcome to try
> again with a more carefully thought-through patch for 9.5.

So, it seems like we need to do something about this one way or
another.  Who's working on that?

-- 
Robert Haas
EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, it seems like we need to do something about this one way or
> another.  Who's working on that?

So I'm fine finishing what I started. I've just been a bit busy this past week.

My inclination is to try to push forward and commit this patch,
document the changes and make sure we check for any consequences of
them.

The alternate plan is to revert it for 9.4 and commit the changes to
9.5 and that gives us more time to be sure we're ok with them.


-- 
greg



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Jeff Janes
Дата:
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> wrote:

> I think this whole exercise has mostly just convinced me we should
> implement an HTTP interface and reimplement psql as a browser app.

I certainly hope not.  I've seen lots of browser apps that were nice
enough to use for casual use by a casual user.  I've never seen one
that was an effective power tool for power users, the way psql is.
Now maybe they are out there and I just don't know about them, but I
have my doubts.

As an additional tool, to each his own.  But a browser-based
replacement for psql, -1 from me.

And as far browser-based things apply to this patch, I must say I've
tried micromanaging the way large amounts of data wrap in a HTML table
when I found the default to be inadequate, and I have not found that
to be noticeably easy, either.

The original version of this patch was only a few lines long and did
one very simple and useful thing: avoiding the printing of whole
screens full of hyphens when in 'expanded mode'.  If we end up
reverting the other parts of this patch, hopefully we don't lose that
part.

Cheers,

Jeff



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Pavel Stehule
Дата:



2014-06-16 23:28 GMT+02:00 Jeff Janes <jeff.janes@gmail.com>:
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> wrote:

> I think this whole exercise has mostly just convinced me we should
> implement an HTTP interface and reimplement psql as a browser app.

I certainly hope not.  I've seen lots of browser apps that were nice
enough to use for casual use by a casual user.  I've never seen one
that was an effective power tool for power users, the way psql is.
Now maybe they are out there and I just don't know about them, but I
have my doubts.

As an additional tool, to each his own.  But a browser-based
replacement for psql, -1 from me.

We can integrate a text console browsers like links, elinks or lynx instead

and we can call a BROWSER instead PAGER when \pset is html

pavel@localhost postgresql92]$ PAGER="elinks -force-html" psql postgres
psql (9.4beta1)
Type "help" for help.

postgres=# \pset format html
Output format (format) is html.
postgres=# SELECT * FROM pg_proc;

works perfect

[pavel@localhost postgresql92]$ PAGER="lynx -stdin" psql postgres
psql (9.4beta1)
Type "help" for help.

postgres=# \pset format html
Output format (format) is html.
postgres=# SELECT * FROM pg_proc;

Writing html browsing into psql is useless now and I don't think so it is good idea. On second hand better integration mentioned browsers can be very useful.

Regards

Pavel
 

And as far browser-based things apply to this patch, I must say I've
tried micromanaging the way large amounts of data wrap in a HTML table
when I found the default to be inadequate, and I have not found that
to be noticeably easy, either.

The original version of this patch was only a few lines long and did
one very simple and useful thing: avoiding the printing of whole
screens full of hyphens when in 'expanded mode'.  If we end up
reverting the other parts of this patch, hopefully we don't lose that
part.

Cheers,

Jeff

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Sergey Muraviov
Дата:
Hi.

Is there any problem with the patch?


2014-06-17 0:21 GMT+04:00 Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu>:
On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, it seems like we need to do something about this one way or
> another.  Who's working on that?

So I'm fine finishing what I started. I've just been a bit busy this past week.

My inclination is to try to push forward and commit this patch,
document the changes and make sure we check for any consequences of
them.

The alternate plan is to revert it for 9.4 and commit the changes to
9.5 and that gives us more time to be sure we're ok with them.


--
greg



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Pavel Stehule
Дата:



2014-06-24 19:45 GMT+02:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:
Hi.

Is there any problem with the patch?

I tested it and I had not any issue with last version

So, please, commit it

Regards

Pavel
 


2014-06-17 0:21 GMT+04:00 Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu>:

On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, it seems like we need to do something about this one way or
> another.  Who's working on that?

So I'm fine finishing what I started. I've just been a bit busy this past week.

My inclination is to try to push forward and commit this patch,
document the changes and make sure we check for any consequences of
them.

The alternate plan is to revert it for 9.4 and commit the changes to
9.5 and that gives us more time to be sure we're ok with them.


--
greg



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Sergey Muraviov
Дата:
Hi.

Is there anyone who can commit the patch?


2014-06-25 20:17 GMT+04:00 Pavel Stehule <pavel.stehule@gmail.com>:



2014-06-24 19:45 GMT+02:00 Sergey Muraviov <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com>:

Hi.

Is there any problem with the patch?

I tested it and I had not any issue with last version

So, please, commit it

Regards

Pavel
 


2014-06-17 0:21 GMT+04:00 Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu>:

On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 9:05 PM, Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com> wrote:
> So, it seems like we need to do something about this one way or
> another.  Who's working on that?

So I'm fine finishing what I started. I've just been a bit busy this past week.

My inclination is to try to push forward and commit this patch,
document the changes and make sure we check for any consequences of
them.

The alternate plan is to revert it for 9.4 and commit the changes to
9.5 and that gives us more time to be sure we're ok with them.


--
greg



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov




--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Sergey Muraviov
<sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there anyone who can commit the patch?

So what I'm inclined to do here (sigh) is commit it into 9.5 and
revert it in 9.4. I think it's an improvement but I there's enough
confusion and surprise about the changes from people who weren't
expecting them and enough surprising side effects from things like
check_postgres that letting it simmer for a full release so people can
get used to it might be worthwhile.

-- 
greg



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Sergey Muraviov
Дата:
So what's wrong with the patch?
And what should I change in it for 9.5?


2014-07-07 3:12 GMT+04:00 Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu>:
On Sun, Jul 6, 2014 at 8:40 AM, Sergey Muraviov
<sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is there anyone who can commit the patch?

So what I'm inclined to do here (sigh) is commit it into 9.5 and
revert it in 9.4. I think it's an improvement but I there's enough
confusion and surprise about the changes from people who weren't
expecting them and enough surprising side effects from things like
check_postgres that letting it simmer for a full release so people can
get used to it might be worthwhile.

--
greg



--
Best regards,
Sergey Muraviov

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Sergey Muraviov
<sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com> wrote:
> So what's wrong with the patch?
> And what should I change in it for 9.5?

Possibly nothing. The concern was tha it's modifying the output in
cases where the output is not \expanded and/or not wrapped. Now I've
mostly convinced myself that those cases should change to be
consistent with the wrapped output but there was at least one tool
depending on that format (check_postgres) so perhaps it's not
worthwhile and having it be inconsistent would be safer.

-- 
greg



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Noah Misch
Дата:
This remains open for 9.4.  Your proposal to revert the feature in 9.4 and fix
it in 9.5 sounds reasonable.

On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 04:15:35PM +0100, Greg Stark wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Sergey Muraviov
> <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com> wrote:
> > So what's wrong with the patch?
> > And what should I change in it for 9.5?
> 
> Possibly nothing. The concern was tha it's modifying the output in
> cases where the output is not \expanded and/or not wrapped. Now I've
> mostly convinced myself that those cases should change to be
> consistent with the wrapped output but there was at least one tool
> depending on that format (check_postgres) so perhaps it's not
> worthwhile and having it be inconsistent would be safer.

I did try psql-wrapped-expanded-fix-v5.patch with the tests Peter and I posted
upthread, and those tests now behave as they do in released versions.  What
cases did you find that still change vs. 9.3?

Thanks,
nm

-- 
Noah Misch
EnterpriseDB                                 http://www.enterprisedb.com



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 3:41 AM, Noah Misch <noah@leadboat.com> wrote:
> This remains open for 9.4.  Your proposal to revert the feature in 9.4 and fix
> it in 9.5 sounds reasonable.

Ok, I've gone ahead and done this. I'm sorry for the delays and confusion.

> On Thu, Jul 10, 2014 at 04:15:35PM +0100, Greg Stark wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 7, 2014 at 8:35 AM, Sergey Muraviov
>> <sergey.k.muraviov@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > So what's wrong with the patch?
>> > And what should I change in it for 9.5?
>>
>> Possibly nothing. The concern was tha it's modifying the output in
>> cases where the output is not \expanded and/or not wrapped. Now I've
>> mostly convinced myself that those cases should change to be
>> consistent with the wrapped output but there was at least one tool
>> depending on that format (check_postgres) so perhaps it's not
>> worthwhile and having it be inconsistent would be safer.
>
> I did try psql-wrapped-expanded-fix-v5.patch with the tests Peter and I posted
> upthread, and those tests now behave as they do in released versions.  What
> cases did you find that still change vs. 9.3?

I was trying to build a spreadsheet of every combination of these
options. It turns out that 4-dimensional spreadsheets are kind of
awkward.

I think the fundamental dilemma was the same that was discussed
upthread. If wrapped expanded mode should have an extra space padding
column for the wrap indicators then all expanded modes should have
that column to be consistent since wrapping shouldn't change the
amount of padding. But that means unrelated queries changes format in
ways people weren't expecting. They were depending on the basically
inconsistent formatting where expanded didn't have the same padding
that non-expanded formats had which was only the case because nobody
had anticiapted expanded format needing space for wrapping indicators.

-- 
greg



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Michael Paquier
Дата:
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 8:30 PM, Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 3:41 AM, Noah Misch <noah@leadboat.com> wrote:
>> This remains open for 9.4.  Your proposal to revert the feature in 9.4 and fix
>> it in 9.5 sounds reasonable.
>
> Ok, I've gone ahead and done this. I'm sorry for the delays and confusion.
I imagine that you also need to fix the release notes accordingly.
Patch attached for master and REL9_4_STABLE.
Regards,
--
Michael

Вложения

Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Michael Paquier
<michael.paquier@gmail.com> wrote:
> I imagine that you also need to fix the release notes accordingly.
> Patch attached for master and REL9_4_STABLE.

Thanks.

Done for 9.4 but the patch is still in master. In fact it's the most
recent version and I'm still pretty convinced it's a good patch.


-- 
greg



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Michael Paquier
Дата:
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 10:02 PM, Greg Stark <stark@mit.edu> wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:55 PM, Michael Paquier
> <michael.paquier@gmail.com> wrote:
> Done for 9.4 but the patch is still in master. In fact it's the most
> recent version and I'm still pretty convinced it's a good patch.
If this feature is not going to be part of 9.4 anymore, the related
release notes should be updated in consequence on REL9_4_STABLE and
master, no? Am I missing something?
-- 
Michael



Re: wrapping in extended mode doesn't work well with default pager

От
Noah Misch
Дата:
On Mon, Aug 18, 2014 at 12:30:40PM +0100, Greg Stark wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 3:41 AM, Noah Misch <noah@leadboat.com> wrote:
> > This remains open for 9.4.  Your proposal to revert the feature in 9.4 and fix
> > it in 9.5 sounds reasonable.
> 
> Ok, I've gone ahead and done this. I'm sorry for the delays and confusion.

Thanks.

> > I did try psql-wrapped-expanded-fix-v5.patch with the tests Peter and I posted
> > upthread, and those tests now behave as they do in released versions.  What
> > cases did you find that still change vs. 9.3?
> 
> I was trying to build a spreadsheet of every combination of these
> options. It turns out that 4-dimensional spreadsheets are kind of
> awkward.

What's one query that still behaves differently in 9.5 vs. 9.3 (under
formatting options that exist in both versions)?

> I think the fundamental dilemma was the same that was discussed
> upthread. If wrapped expanded mode should have an extra space padding
> column for the wrap indicators then all expanded modes should have
> that column to be consistent since wrapping shouldn't change the
> amount of padding.

I might agree for a greenfield design, but -1 for changing expanded mode now
to improve consistency in this way.  I predict the complaints from users of
expanded mode in automation would overpower any applause for the consistency.