Обсуждение: Interesting Quote you might enjoy about PGSQL.

Found this quote by Philip Greenspun (who is unabashedly in love with
Oracle) in a LinuxWorld article:
"> The open source purist's only realistic choice for an RDBMS
>  is PostgreSQL (see Resources for the URL). In some ways,
>  PostgreSQL has more advanced features than any commercial
>  RDBMS. Most important, the loosely organized, unpaid 
>  developers of PostgreSQL were able to convert to an 
>  Oracle-style multiversion concurrency system (see below),
>  leaving all the rest of the commercial competition 
>  deadlocked in the dust. If you've decided to accept John
>  Ousterhout as your personal savior, you'll be delighted
>  to learn that you can run Tcl procedures inside the 
>  PostgreSQL database. And if your business can't live without
>  commercial support for your RDBMS, you can buy it 
>  (see Resources for a link). 

Cheers!  (the full series of articles, which are about AOLserver, is
available at http://linuxworld.com)

--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11

> Found this quote by Philip Greenspun (who is unabashedly in love with
> Oracle) in a LinuxWorld article:
> "> The open source purist's only realistic choice for an RDBMS
> >  is PostgreSQL (see Resources for the URL). In some ways,
> >  PostgreSQL has more advanced features than any commercial
> >  RDBMS. Most important, the loosely organized, unpaid 
> >  developers of PostgreSQL were able to convert to an 
> >  Oracle-style multiversion concurrency system (see below),
> >  leaving all the rest of the commercial competition 
> >  deadlocked in the dust. If you've decided to accept John

That is am amazing quotation.  Vince, can we get a link to it on the
webpage?



> >  Ousterhout as your personal savior, you'll be delighted
> >  to learn that you can run Tcl procedures inside the 
> >  PostgreSQL database. And if your business can't live without
> >  commercial support for your RDBMS, you can buy it 
> >  (see Resources for a link). 
> 
> Cheers!  (the full series of articles, which are about AOLserver, is
> available at http://linuxworld.com)
> 
> --
> Lamar Owen
> WGCR Internet Radio
> 1 Peter 4:11
> 
> ************
> 


--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

Lamar Owen wrote:
> 
> Found this quote by Philip Greenspun (who is unabashedly in love with
> Oracle) in a LinuxWorld article:

It's nice to know he is a fan. btw, Philip was inquiring about the
feasibility of making PostgreSQL more compatible with Oracle to allow
him to port a large software project he built (in fact, you referred
us to his web site on some other topic recently). Until we have outer
joins it is a non-starter for him, but it was nice he asked :)
                  - Thomas

-- 
Thomas Lockhart                lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
South Pasadena, California

> > ... PostgreSQL has more advanced features than any commercial
> >  RDBMS. Most important, the loosely organized, unpaid
> >  developers of PostgreSQL were able to convert to an
> >  Oracle-style multiversion concurrency system (see below),
> >  leaving all the rest of the commercial competition
> >  deadlocked in the dust.

There we go, riding Vadim's coattails to glory :))
                   - Thomas

-- 
Thomas Lockhart                lockhart@alumni.caltech.edu
South Pasadena, California

> > > ... PostgreSQL has more advanced features than any commercial
> > >  RDBMS. Most important, the loosely organized, unpaid
> > >  developers of PostgreSQL were able to convert to an
> > >  Oracle-style multiversion concurrency system (see below),
> > >  leaving all the rest of the commercial competition
> > >  deadlocked in the dust.
> 
> There we go, riding Vadim's coattails to glory :))

Yep.  The article makes it sound like we all did MVCC.  No one told him
is was just one person.

I was mentioning to the MySQL folks that we have some brilliant
developers.  Certainly most database companies have only a few really
good developers.  Because we have the entire Internet to get people, we
draw the best database developers in the world.

Added to developers page:

We don't hire people to develop PostgreSQL.  We have the entire Internet
to get people, so we draw the best database developers in the world.    

[Jan, can we get a better image for the developers page?]

--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

> > > ... PostgreSQL has more advanced features than any commercial
> > >  RDBMS. Most important, the loosely organized, unpaid
> > >  developers of PostgreSQL were able to convert to an
> > >  Oracle-style multiversion concurrency system (see below),
> > >  leaving all the rest of the commercial competition
> > >  deadlocked in the dust.
> 
> There we go, riding Vadim's coattails to glory :))
> 

New text:

We don't hire developers.  We reach across the Internet, drawing the
best database developers in the world to PostgreSQL.

--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

> > > ... PostgreSQL has more advanced features than any commercial
> > >  RDBMS. Most important, the loosely organized, unpaid
> > >  developers of PostgreSQL were able to convert to an
> > >  Oracle-style multiversion concurrency system (see below),
> > >  leaving all the rest of the commercial competition
> > >  deadlocked in the dust.
> 
> There we go, riding Vadim's coattails to glory :))

Wow, that web page looks good now, with the quote at the bottom.  Jan,
we need the nicer world image.

--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

Bruce Momjian wrote:

>
> > > > ... PostgreSQL has more advanced features than any commercial
> > > >  RDBMS. Most important, the loosely organized, unpaid
> > > >  developers of PostgreSQL were able to convert to an
> > > >  Oracle-style multiversion concurrency system (see below),
> > > >  leaving all the rest of the commercial competition
> > > >  deadlocked in the dust.
> >
> > There we go, riding Vadim's coattails to glory :))
>
> Wow, that web page looks good now, with the quote at the bottom.  Jan,
> we need the nicer world image.

    You mean one with the mountains - no?

    Well, I'll spend some time, polish up the Povray sources etc.
    so Vince can easily maintain the map after  -  only  that  he
    needs  Povray  3.1  and  maybe  Tcl/Tk 8.0 to do it, but that
    shouldn't be a problem since both are  freely  available  and
    easily to install.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#========================================= wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #

On Mon, 11 Oct 1999, Jan Wieck wrote:

> Bruce Momjian wrote:
> 
> >
> > > > > ... PostgreSQL has more advanced features than any commercial
> > > > >  RDBMS. Most important, the loosely organized, unpaid
> > > > >  developers of PostgreSQL were able to convert to an
> > > > >  Oracle-style multiversion concurrency system (see below),
> > > > >  leaving all the rest of the commercial competition
> > > > >  deadlocked in the dust.
> > >
> > > There we go, riding Vadim's coattails to glory :))
> >
> > Wow, that web page looks good now, with the quote at the bottom.  Jan,
> > we need the nicer world image.
> 
>     You mean one with the mountains - no?
> 
>     Well, I'll spend some time, polish up the Povray sources etc.
>     so Vince can easily maintain the map after  -  only  that  he
>     needs  Povray  3.1  and  maybe  Tcl/Tk 8.0 to do it, but that
>     shouldn't be a problem since both are  freely  available  and
>     easily to install.

Not a problem.  I may have some questions re Povray's setup (I've 
never used it).

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null # include <std/disclaimers.h>       Have you
seenhttp://www.pop4.net?       Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com      Online Giftshop
Superstore   http://www.cloudninegifts.com
 
==========================================================================

> > Wow, that web page looks good now, with the quote at the bottom.  Jan,
> > we need the nicer world image.
> 
>     You mean one with the mountains - no?
> 
>     Well, I'll spend some time, polish up the Povray sources etc.
>     so Vince can easily maintain the map after  -  only  that  he
>     needs  Povray  3.1  and  maybe  Tcl/Tk 8.0 to do it, but that
>     shouldn't be a problem since both are  freely  available  and
>     easily to install.

Yes.  I would also like to see the sources.

--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

> > > Wow, that web page looks good now, with the quote at the bottom.  Jan,
> > > we need the nicer world image.
> > 
> >     You mean one with the mountains - no?
> > 
> >     Well, I'll spend some time, polish up the Povray sources etc.
> >     so Vince can easily maintain the map after  -  only  that  he
> >     needs  Povray  3.1  and  maybe  Tcl/Tk 8.0 to do it, but that
> >     shouldn't be a problem since both are  freely  available  and
> >     easily to install.

I have tcl 8.0.5 and povray here too.

--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

Thomas Lockhart wrote:
> 
> Lamar Owen wrote:
> >
> > Found this quote by Philip Greenspun (who is unabashedly in love with
> > Oracle) in a LinuxWorld article:
> 
> It's nice to know he is a fan. btw, Philip was inquiring about the
> feasibility of making PostgreSQL more compatible with Oracle to allow
> him to port a large software project he built (in fact, you referred
> us to his web site on some other topic recently). Until we have outer
> joins it is a non-starter for him, but it was nice he asked :)

That would be the ArsDigita Community System -- ACS for short.  This is
an absolutely wonderful community system for database-backed web sites
-- www.arsdigita.com for more info. Version 7 territory! I have played
with ACS against the free development-only Oracle 8i for Linux -- very
comprehensive. However, Oracle for a database-backed web site is priced
sky-high -- I saw one quote for $25,000 to back a website with Oracle 8i
on a 500MHz Pentium III (their license factors server speed into the
cost -- a 386-16 might only cost $1,000 on that scale...;-)) 
Compatibility with Oracle is IMHO a pretty good thing, as long as we
don't become an Oracle clone -- PostgreSQL has too many nice extras for
that.

Yeah, it was _because_ of AOLserver and Philip Greenspun that I got into
PostgreSQL in the first place.  

BTW: RedHat 6.1 shipped, with the last RPM's I posted.
--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11

>
> > > > Wow, that web page looks good now, with the quote at the bottom.  Jan,
> > > > we need the nicer world image.
> > >
> > >     You mean one with the mountains - no?
> > >
> > >     Well, I'll spend some time, polish up the Povray sources etc.
> > >     so Vince can easily maintain the map after  -  only  that  he
> > >     needs  Povray  3.1  and  maybe  Tcl/Tk 8.0 to do it, but that
> > >     shouldn't be a problem since both are  freely  available  and
> > >     easily to install.
>
> I have tcl 8.0.5 and povray here too.

    I've setup an example for the new developers page at

    <http://www.PostgreSQL.ORG/~wieck>

    The image size is adjusted for the page width.

    To   maintain   the   hotspots  I  made  a  little,  slightly
    overspecialized, Tcl/Tk application that creates the imagemap
    so it can easily be pasted into the page.

    I'll  contact you and Vince via private mail after packing it
    up.


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#========================================= wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #

> >
> > > > > Wow, that web page looks good now, with the quote at the bottom.  Jan,
> > > > > we need the nicer world image.
> > > >
> > > >     You mean one with the mountains - no?
> > > >
> > > >     Well, I'll spend some time, polish up the Povray sources etc.
> > > >     so Vince can easily maintain the map after  -  only  that  he
> > > >     needs  Povray  3.1  and  maybe  Tcl/Tk 8.0 to do it, but that
> > > >     shouldn't be a problem since both are  freely  available  and
> > > >     easily to install.
> >
> > I have tcl 8.0.5 and povray here too.
> 
>     I've setup an example for the new developers page at
> 
>     <http://www.PostgreSQL.ORG/~wieck>
> 
>     The image size is adjusted for the page width.
> 
>     To   maintain   the   hotspots  I  made  a  little,  slightly
>     overspecialized, Tcl/Tk application that creates the imagemap
>     so it can easily be pasted into the page.
> 
>     I'll  contact you and Vince via private mail after packing it
>     up.

Yikes, that's amazingly good looking.

--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

> > I have tcl 8.0.5 and povray here too.
> 
>     I've setup an example for the new developers page at
> 
>     <http://www.PostgreSQL.ORG/~wieck>
> 
>     The image size is adjusted for the page width.
> 
>     To   maintain   the   hotspots  I  made  a  little,  slightly
>     overspecialized, Tcl/Tk application that creates the imagemap
>     so it can easily be pasted into the page.
> 
>     I'll  contact you and Vince via private mail after packing it
>     up.

I just realized I can put my mouse over a pin, and the name appears. 
That is great.

--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

Jan Wieck wrote:
>     I've setup an example for the new developers page at
> 
>     <http://www.PostgreSQL.ORG/~wieck>
> 
>     The image size is adjusted for the page width.
> 
>     To   maintain   the   hotspots  I  made  a  little,  slightly
>     overspecialized, Tcl/Tk application that creates the imagemap
>     so it can easily be pasted into the page.

I get a Javascript error:
JavaScript Error: http://www.PostgreSQL.ORG/~wieck/, line 51:

pg_dot_start is not defined.

Netscape Communicator 4.61.

Otherwise, this globe is stunning.

There are a couple of typos (to be pedantic...): (;-))
Under Thomas, 'documentation' is incorrectly spelled.
Under Tom Lane, 'He has works on the optimizer', unless some arcane
usage of works is in vogue, should be either 'He works on' or 'He has
worked on', with the latter fitting with the tense already used in his
description.

If Vince wants to add my name as RPM maintainer, and no one objects, I
volunteer to continue to maintain the RedHat Linux RPM set (the last
revision of which shipped with RedHat 6.1).

Again, THIS GLOBE IS STUNNING!

Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
1 Peter 4:11

> Again, THIS GLOBE IS STUNNING!
> 

Yep.  That's the word for it.  I will fix the wording once Jan is
finished.  The mistakes are mine.

--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Lamar Owen wrote:

> If Vince wants to add my name as RPM maintainer, and no one objects, I
> volunteer to continue to maintain the RedHat Linux RPM set (the last
> revision of which shipped with RedHat 6.1).

Vince always thought that was Bruce's page.

Vince.
-- 
==========================================================================
Vince Vielhaber -- KA8CSH   email: vev@michvhf.com   flame-mail: /dev/null # include <std/disclaimers.h>       Have you
seenhttp://www.pop4.net?       Online Campground Directory    http://www.camping-usa.com      Online Giftshop
Superstore   http://www.cloudninegifts.com
 
==========================================================================

> On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Lamar Owen wrote:
> 
> > If Vince wants to add my name as RPM maintainer, and no one objects, I
> > volunteer to continue to maintain the RedHat Linux RPM set (the last
> > revision of which shipped with RedHat 6.1).
> 
> Vince always thought that was Bruce's page.
> 

Sure, I'll add you once Jan finishes.

--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

Lamar Owen wrote:

>
> Jan Wieck wrote:
> >     I've setup an example for the new developers page at
> >
> >     <http://www.PostgreSQL.ORG/~wieck>
> >
> >     The image size is adjusted for the page width.
> >
> >     To   maintain   the   hotspots  I  made  a  little,  slightly
> >     overspecialized, Tcl/Tk application that creates the imagemap
> >     so it can easily be pasted into the page.
>
> I get a Javascript error:
> JavaScript Error: http://www.PostgreSQL.ORG/~wieck/, line 51:
>
> pg_dot_start is not defined.

    Ooops  -  thanks and corrected, try again. I forgot to remove
    the onLoad() in the <body>.  That  blinking-dot  stuff  isn't
    required  anymore  since  the globe looks already nice enough
    without animation.

> Again, THIS GLOBE IS STUNNING!


    Tnx :-)


Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#========================================= wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #

Jan Wieck wrote:
> > pg_dot_start is not defined.
> 
>     Ooops  -  thanks and corrected, try again. I forgot to remove
>     the onLoad() in the <body>.  That  blinking-dot  stuff  isn't
>     required  anymore  since  the globe looks already nice enough
>     without animation.

Ah, yes.  Much better.

--
Lamar Owen
WGCR Internet Radio
Pisgah Forest, North Carolina
1 Peter 4:11

On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, Bruce Momjian wrote:

> > > I have tcl 8.0.5 and povray here too.
> > 
> >     I've setup an example for the new developers page at
> > 
> >     <http://www.PostgreSQL.ORG/~wieck>
> > 
> >     The image size is adjusted for the page width.
> > 
> >     To   maintain   the   hotspots  I  made  a  little,  slightly
> >     overspecialized, Tcl/Tk application that creates the imagemap
> >     so it can easily be pasted into the page.
> > 
> >     I'll  contact you and Vince via private mail after packing it
> >     up.
> 
> I just realized I can put my mouse over a pin, and the name appears. 
> That is great.

most cool...one thing though...considering teh width of those tags, how
about adding location info in there also?  For instance "Edmund, Mergyl:
Stuttgart, Germany" ... :)

Marc G. Fournier                   ICQ#7615664               IRC Nick: Scrappy
Systems Administrator @ hub.org 
primary: scrappy@hub.org           secondary: scrappy@{freebsd|postgresql}.org 

> > >     I'll  contact you and Vince via private mail after packing it
> > >     up.
> > 
> > I just realized I can put my mouse over a pin, and the name appears. 
> > That is great.
> 
> most cool...one thing though...considering teh width of those tags, how
> about adding location info in there also?  For instance "Edmund, Mergyl:
> Stuttgart, Germany" ... :)

Marc, let's not get Jan upset.  :-)

Their location is already in the lower page next to their name anyway.

--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

>
> > > >     I'll  contact you and Vince via private mail after packing it
> > > >     up.
> > >
> > > I just realized I can put my mouse over a pin, and the name appears.
> > > That is great.
> >
> > most cool...one thing though...considering teh width of those tags, how
> > about adding location info in there also?  For instance "Edmund, Mergyl:
> > Stuttgart, Germany" ... :)
>
> Marc, let's not get Jan upset.  :-)

    Bruce, to upset me Marc needs alot of more efford!

    And  why not? If you UPDATE you'll see that we can get rid of
    most of the entire body. Remember - a picture says more  than
    a thousand words :-)

    Instead  there  could  be more important information like our
    release policy  (no  features  in  bufix  releases,  backward
    compatibility    in    minor   releases),   how   to   submit
    patches/improvements, where to find documentation on  how  to
    enhance/hack PostgreSQL etc.

>
> Their location is already in the lower page next to their name anyway.



Jan

--

#======================================================================#
# It's easier to get forgiveness for being wrong than for being right. #
# Let's break this rule - forgive me.                                  #
#========================================= wieck@debis.com (Jan Wieck) #

Hi,

who is a maintainer of Developers List. 
I understand that I'm not a postgres coder but is't
possible to mention somewhere:

Bartunov, Oleg in Moscow, Russia (oleg@sai.msu.su)
has introduced locale support.

It was rather long ago and was very limited but
I still proud for this little hack many people
used. (take into account I'm not a C-programmer at all :-)

Regards,
    Oleg

_____________________________________________________________
Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet,
Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia)
Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/
phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83

> Hi,
> 
> who is a maintainer of Developers List. 
> I understand that I'm not a postgres coder but is't
> possible to mention somewhere:
> 
> Bartunov, Oleg in Moscow, Russia (oleg@sai.msu.su)
> has introduced locale support.
> 
> It was rather long ago and was very limited but
> I still proud for this little hack many people
> used. (take into account I'm not a C-programmer at all :-)

Sure, let me do that when Jan is done.

--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

> > Marc, let's not get Jan upset.  :-)
> 
>     Bruce, to upset me Marc needs alot of more efford!
> 
>     And  why not? If you UPDATE you'll see that we can get rid of
>     most of the entire body. Remember - a picture says more  than
>     a thousand words :-)

Wow, that is cool.  No need for text at bottom, except to list names and
e-mail addresses.

>     Instead  there  could  be more important information like our
>     release policy  (no  features  in  bufix  releases,  backward
>     compatibility    in    minor   releases),   how   to   submit
>     patches/improvements, where to find documentation on  how  to
>     enhance/hack PostgreSQL etc.

That's an interesting idea, though I think the documentation or download
page may be a better place for that.

--  Bruce Momjian                        |  http://www.op.net/~candle maillist@candle.pha.pa.us            |  (610)
853-3000+  If your life is a hard drive,     |  830 Blythe Avenue +  Christ can be your backup.        |  Drexel Hill,
Pennsylvania19026
 

Bruce Momjian wrote: >> > Marc, let's not get Jan upset.  :-) >>  >>     Bruce, to upset me Marc needs alot of more
efford!>>  >>     And  why not? If you UPDATE you'll see that we can get rid of >>     most of the entire body.
Remember- a picture says more  than >>     a thousand words :-) > >Wow, that is cool.  No need for text at bottom,
exceptto list names and >e-mail addresses.
 
Don't forget the people who use Lynx and other such browsers.

In Lynx the JavaScript stuff is not visible at all, so there ought to be
normal text for those who cannot display images.

--      Vote against SPAM: http://www.politik-digital.de/spam/                ========================================
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Isle of Wight                              http://www.lfix.co.uk/oliver              PGP key from public servers; key
ID32B8FAA1                ========================================    "Blessed is the man who makes the LORD his trust,
    who does not look to the proud, to those who turn      aside to false gods."            Psalms 40:4