Re: On future conferences

mdean wrote:
> Bruce Momjian wrote:
>> Andy Astor wrote:
>>
>>> ...and EnterpriseDB.
>>>
>>
>> What isn't clear is whether EnterpriseDB offers straight PostgreSQL
>> training, rather than EnterpriseDB product training.
>>
>>
> I see only expensive courses in North Carolina, Ottawa, and
> Swizerland.  The Enterprisedb site does not mention training.
> Postgresql vendors need to adopt the SAS model and offer lower priced
> courses in many more cities, such as in San Francisco, Oakland, Des
> Moines, etc.  or let users kill two birds with one stone and take
> courses AND certification at major conferences, like linux is doing
> with Linuxworld.  We all know the Pervasive model for "support" does
> not work, I would question how popular these training courses are
> either.  Personally  my company would not pay 3-5 grand plus travel
> costs for one week courses.  So like the conferences, the courses
> relate only to elitest elements, and offer nothing for the masses,
> which are good reasons why postgresql is NOT used by the masses.
> After over a full year in reviewing the operations of the postgresql
> community, I sense a strong elitest mentality and an unwillingness to
> define and take care of customers.  A formula for failure.
We've tried offering courses (and advertising them quite a bit - even at
LinuxWorld) in California (I think Josh B was even poking people who
might be interested) - we ended up without enough people to run the
class - and we were willing to run it at a loss with 3 students.

I think the term "expensive" is in the eye of the "purse-holder".  We
offer PostgreSQL Admin training (5 days) for $2,195 including hotel and
round-trip airfare .  That's well below the national average for a 5 day
class (oracle university is much more than that for 5 days), and I don't
think you'll find a single open source training company that is
competitive with that price - and is looking at a national audience.
And that's not including the gov't/education discounts.

The question is would your company pay 2.2k for 1 week plus travel -
'cause that's what we charge (travel included).  I won't speak to the
numbers, but we're doing well enough to support the PostgreSQL project
through SPI....

The problem with offering courses at a low cost in many cities is one of
volume - there isn't enough PostgreSQL training volume in these cities
to consistently fill classes.  I think when you refer to SAS you're
referring to a beast that is used in pretty much every fortune 500
company out there...and many others.  Their problem is more one of
offering training to support their sales machine (I'd wonder if it is
even a profit center for them)...

The certification issue is a whole different ball of wax.  It's quite
expensive (~ 25k/year from what I've read) maintain a certification with
a PearsonVUE or Prometric...and while a "practicum" type model would be
great, there is a question as to how you maintain its consistencty,
quality and integrity - without becoming an asterisk-type certification
that is available from only 1 source...which is difficult from a
community perspective.  I think if PostgreSQL gains enough popularity
and there isn't a community supported certification, you'll see some
company or companies come out with bogus certifications designed to fool
consumers into coming to them for training...with various "we guarantee
you'll pass" type assertions (it's what we've seen before with other
Open Source products...)  Consumers become sorely disappointed when they
find such certifications aren't work anything to employers (and they
blame the community, not the vendor that gave 'em the bogus cert).

Chander Ganesan
Open Technology Group, Inc.
One Copley Parkway, Suite 210
Morrisville, NC  27560
Phone: 877-258-8987/919-463-0999


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