Обсуждение: Efficiency of timestamps

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Efficiency of timestamps

От
Martin Foster
Дата:
As I keep looking through code to see where I can make things more
efficient, I noticed that in some cases timestamps seem horribly
inefficient.   This leads to very long run times for certain queries.

Here is an example:

-- USING TIMESTAMPS TO NARROW DOWN --

SELECT
  Post.PostIDNumber,
  Post.PuppeteerLogin,
  Post.PuppetName,
  Post.PostCmd,
  Post.PostClass
  FROM ethereal.Post
  WHERE Post.PostTimeStamp > (LOCALTIMESTAMP - INTERVAL '10 Minutes')
  AND Post.RealmName='Amalgam'
  AND (Post.PostTo='all' OR Post.PostTo='root')
  AND (NOT EXISTS (SELECT PuppetIgnore.PuppetLogin
  FROM ethereal.PuppetIgnore
  WHERE PuppetIgnore.PuppetIgnore='global'
  AND PuppetIgnore.PuppeteerLogin='root'
  AND PuppetIgnore.PuppetLogin=Post.PuppeteerLogin)
  OR Post.PuppeteerLogin IS NULL)
  AND (NOT EXISTS (SELECT PuppetIgnore.PuppetName
  FROM ethereal.PuppetIgnore
  WHERE PuppetIgnore='single'
  AND PuppetIgnore.PuppeteerLogin='root'
  AND PuppetIgnore.PuppetName=Post.PuppetName)
  OR Post.PuppetName IS NULL)
  ORDER BY Post.PostIDNumber LIMIT 100

-- Explain of Above--
Limit  (cost=0.00..260237.32 rows=100 width=48)
   ->  Index Scan using pkpost on post  (cost=0.00..3020594.00 rows=1161
width=48)
         Filter: ((posttimestamp > (('now'::text)::timestamp(6) without
time zone - '00:10'::interval)) AND (realmname = 'Amalgam'::character
varying) AND ((postto = 'all'::character varying) OR (postto =
'root'::character varying)) AND ((NOT (subplan)) OR (puppeteerlogin IS
NULL)) AND ((NOT (subplan)) OR (puppetname IS NULL)))
         SubPlan
           ->  Index Scan using pkpuppetignore on puppetignore
(cost=0.00..13.31 rows=1 width=10)
                 Index Cond: (puppeteerlogin = 'root'::character varying)
                 Filter: ((puppetignore = 'global'::character varying)
AND (puppetlogin = $0))
           ->  Index Scan using pkpuppetignore on puppetignore
(cost=0.00..5.84 rows=1 width=15)
                 Index Cond: ((puppeteerlogin = 'root'::character
varying) AND (puppetname = $1))
                 Filter: (puppetignore = 'single'::character varying)


Result : 22 rows fetched (17.21 sec)


-- USING A GENERATED ID NUMBER --

SELECT
  Post.PostIDNumber,
  Post.PuppeteerLogin,
  Post.PuppetName,
  Post.PostCmd,
  Post.PostClass
  FROM ethereal.Post
  WHERE Post.PostIDNumber > 1
  AND Post.RealmName='Amalgam'
  AND (Post.PostTo='all' OR Post.PostTo='root')
  AND (NOT EXISTS (SELECT PuppetIgnore.PuppetLogin
  FROM ethereal.PuppetIgnore
  WHERE PuppetIgnore.PuppetIgnore='global'
  AND PuppetIgnore.PuppeteerLogin='root'
  AND PuppetIgnore.PuppetLogin=Post.PuppeteerLogin)
  OR Post.PuppeteerLogin IS NULL)
  AND (NOT EXISTS (SELECT PuppetIgnore.PuppetName
  FROM ethereal.PuppetIgnore
  WHERE PuppetIgnore='single'
  AND PuppetIgnore.PuppeteerLogin='root'
  AND PuppetIgnore.PuppetName=Post.PuppetName)
  OR Post.PuppetName IS NULL)
  ORDER BY Post.PostIDNumber LIMIT 100

-- Explain of Above--
Limit  (cost=0.00..86712.10 rows=100 width=48)
   ->  Index Scan using pkpost on post  (cost=0.00..3019119.56 rows=3482
width=48)
         Index Cond: (postidnumber > 1)
         Filter: ((realmname = 'Amalgam'::character varying) AND
((postto = 'all'::character varying) OR (postto = 'root'::character
varying)) AND ((NOT (subplan)) OR (puppeteerlogin IS NULL)) AND ((NOT
(subplan)) OR (puppetname IS NULL)))
         SubPlan
           ->  Index Scan using pkpuppetignore on puppetignore
(cost=0.00..13.31 rows=1 width=10)
                 Index Cond: (puppeteerlogin = 'root'::character varying)
                 Filter: ((puppetignore = 'global'::character varying)
AND (puppetlogin = $0))
           ->  Index Scan using pkpuppetignore on puppetignore
(cost=0.00..5.84 rows=1 width=15)
                 Index Cond: ((puppeteerlogin = 'root'::character
varying) AND (puppetname = $1))
                 Filter: (puppetignore = 'single'::character varying)


Result : 100 rows fetched ( 0.19 sec)


-- USING A MIXTURE OF BOTH --

SELECT
  Post.PostIDNumber,
  Post.PuppeteerLogin,
  Post.PuppetName,
  Post.PostCmd,
  Post.PostClass
  FROM ethereal.Post
  WHERE Post.PostIDNumber > (SELECT MIN(PostIDNumber)
  FROM ethereal.Post
  WHERE Post.PostTimeStamp > (LOCALTIMESTAMP - INTERVAL '10 minutes'))::INT
  AND Post.RealmName='Amalgam'
  AND (Post.PostTo='all' OR Post.PostTo='root')
  AND (NOT EXISTS (SELECT PuppetIgnore.PuppetLogin
  FROM ethereal.PuppetIgnore
  WHERE PuppetIgnore.PuppetIgnore='global'
  AND PuppetIgnore.PuppeteerLogin='root'
  AND PuppetIgnore.PuppetLogin=Post.PuppeteerLogin)
  OR Post.PuppeteerLogin IS NULL)
  AND (NOT EXISTS (SELECT PuppetIgnore.PuppetName
  FROM ethereal.PuppetIgnore
  WHERE PuppetIgnore='single'
  AND PuppetIgnore.PuppeteerLogin='root'
  AND PuppetIgnore.PuppetName=Post.PuppetName)
  OR Post.PuppetName IS NULL)
  ORDER BY Post.PostIDNumber LIMIT 100

-- Explain of Above--
Limit  (cost=0.00..87101.38 rows=100 width=48)
   InitPlan
     ->  Aggregate  (cost=12412.82..12412.82 rows=1 width=4)
           ->  Index Scan using idxpost_timestamp on post
(cost=0.00..12282.42 rows=52160 width=4)
                 Index Cond: (posttimestamp >
(('now'::text)::timestamp(6) without time zone - '00:10'::interval))
   ->  Index Scan using pkpost on post  (cost=0.00..1010992.25 rows=1161
width=48)
         Index Cond: (postidnumber > $0)
         Filter: ((realmname = 'Amalgam'::character varying) AND
((postto = 'all'::character varying) OR (postto = 'root'::character
varying)) AND ((NOT (subplan)) OR (puppeteerlogin IS NULL)) AND ((NOT
(subplan)) OR (puppetname IS NULL)))
         SubPlan
           ->  Index Scan using pkpuppetignore on puppetignore
(cost=0.00..13.31 rows=1 width=10)
                 Index Cond: (puppeteerlogin = 'root'::character varying)
                 Filter: ((puppetignore = 'global'::character varying)
AND (puppetlogin = $1))
           ->  Index Scan using pkpuppetignore on puppetignore
(cost=0.00..5.84 rows=1 width=15)
                 Index Cond: ((puppeteerlogin = 'root'::character
varying) AND (puppetname = $2))
                 Filter: (puppetignore = 'single'::character varying)


Result : 18 rows fetched ( 0.04 sec)


Both PostIDNumber and PostTimestamp are indexed, so that should not be a
bottleneck in itself.    However, as you can see in the third example
the use of a sub-query actually accelerates the process considerably,
meaning that integer based searching is much much faster.

Under MySQL timestamps where in Unix time, which is why I may have never
noticed such an extreme slowdown when doing similar on that script.   Of
course to boggle the mind, here is a view that works very well:

CREATE VIEW ethereal.Who AS
   SELECT
     Po.PuppetName     AS PuppetName,
     Po.PuppeteerLogin AS PuppeteerLogin,
     Po.RealmName      AS RealmName,
     Re.RealmPublic    AS RealmPublic,
     Re.RealmVerified  AS RealmVerified
   FROM ethereal.Post Po, ethereal.Puppet Ch, ethereal.Realm Re
   WHERE Po.PuppeteerLogin = Ch.PuppeteerLogin
     AND Po.RealmName = Re.RealmName
     AND Po.PostTimestamp > (LOCALTIMESTAMP - INTERVAL '10 minutes')
     AND Po.PuppetName IS NOT NULL
   GROUP BY Po.PuppeteerLogin, Po.PuppetName, Po.RealmName,
Re.RealmPublic, Re.RealmVerified
   ORDER BY Po.RealmName, Po.PuppetName;

Sort  (cost=309259.89..309629.34 rows=147780 width=79)
   Sort Key: po.realmname, po.puppetname
   ->  Group  (cost=270648.27..292815.19 rows=147780 width=79)
         ->  Sort  (cost=270648.27..274342.75 rows=1477795 width=79)
               Sort Key: po.puppeteerlogin, po.puppetname, po.realmname,
re.realmpublic, re.realmverified
               ->  Merge Join  (cost=22181.60..41087.65 rows=1477795
width=79)
                     Merge Cond: ("outer".puppeteerlogin =
"inner".puppeteerlogin)
                     ->  Sort  (cost=17172.82..17300.26 rows=50978 width=69)
                           Sort Key: po.puppeteerlogin
                           ->  Hash Join  (cost=12.41..13186.95
rows=50978 width=69)
                                 Hash Cond: ("outer".realmname =
"inner".realmname)
                                 ->  Index Scan using idxpost_timestamp
on post po  (cost=0.00..12282.42 rows=50978 width=42)
                                       Index Cond: (posttimestamp >
(('now'::text)::timestamp(6) without time zone - '00:10'::interval))
                                       Filter: (puppetname IS NOT NULL)
                                 ->  Hash  (cost=11.93..11.93 rows=193
width=27)
                                       ->  Seq Scan on realm re
(cost=0.00..11.93 rows=193 width=27)
                     ->  Sort  (cost=5008.78..5100.22 rows=36574 width=10)
                           Sort Key: ch.puppeteerlogin
                           ->  Seq Scan on puppet ch
(cost=0.00..2236.74 rows=36574 width=10)


Result : 48 rows fetched ( 0.55 sec)


It uses the exact same time restraint as the first three examples, looks
through the same table, does a tipple join and still gets off at higher
speeds.   This seems to indicate that timestamps are actually efficient,
which contradicts above examples.

Any ideas?   Code for the table creation is below signature:

    Martin Foster
    Creator/Designer Ethereal Realms
    martin@ethereal-realms.org


--
--
-- NAME        : Post
-- REFERENCES  : Realm*
--               Puppet*
--               PuppeteerLogin*
--
-- DESCRIPTION : Post is the hive of activity for all realms.
Associated with all three
--               major tables, it is not actually linked because of the
nature of storing
--               posts for statistics and auditing.

CREATE TABLE ethereal.Post (
   PostIDNumber         INT           NOT NULL DEFAULT
NEXTVAL('ethereal.seqPost'),
   RealmName            VARCHAR(30)   NOT NULL,
   PuppetName           VARCHAR(30),
   PuppeteerLogin       VARCHAR(10),
   PostTo               VARCHAR(30),
   PostTimestamp        TIMESTAMP     NOT NULL DEFAULT LOCALTIMESTAMP,
   PostClass            VARCHAR(10)   NOT NULL DEFAULT 'general',
   PostCmd              VARCHAR(10)   NOT NULL DEFAULT 'none',
   PostFullFormat       TEXT,
   PostImagelessFormat  TEXT,
   PostPartialFormat    TEXT,
   CONSTRAINT pkPost                  PRIMARY KEY (PostIDNumber),
   CONSTRAINT enumPostClass           CHECK (PostCLass IN
('banner','dice','duplicate','general','play','private','special','system')),
   CONSTRAINT enumPostCmd             CHECK (PostCmd IN
('general','none','play','stream'))
) WITHOUT OIDS;

-- STANDARD INDEX
CREATE INDEX idxPost_Class ON ethereal.Post
(
   PostClass
);

CREATE INDEX idxPost_Login ON ethereal.Post
(
   PuppeteerLogin
);

CREATE INDEX idxPost_Puppet ON ethereal.Post
(
   PuppetName
);

CREATE INDEX idxPost_Realm ON ethereal.Post
(
   RealmName
);

CREATE INDEX idxPost_Timestamp ON ethereal.Post
(
   PostTimestamp
);



Re: Efficiency of timestamps

От
Stephan Szabo
Дата:
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Martin Foster wrote:

> As I keep looking through code to see where I can make things more
> efficient, I noticed that in some cases timestamps seem horribly
> inefficient.   This leads to very long run times for certain queries.
>
> Here is an example:
>
> -- USING TIMESTAMPS TO NARROW DOWN --
>
> SELECT
>   Post.PostIDNumber,
>   Post.PuppeteerLogin,
>   Post.PuppetName,
>   Post.PostCmd,
>   Post.PostClass
>   FROM ethereal.Post
>   WHERE Post.PostTimeStamp > (LOCALTIMESTAMP - INTERVAL '10 Minutes')
>   AND Post.RealmName='Amalgam'
>   AND (Post.PostTo='all' OR Post.PostTo='root')
>   AND (NOT EXISTS (SELECT PuppetIgnore.PuppetLogin
>   FROM ethereal.PuppetIgnore
>   WHERE PuppetIgnore.PuppetIgnore='global'
>   AND PuppetIgnore.PuppeteerLogin='root'
>   AND PuppetIgnore.PuppetLogin=Post.PuppeteerLogin)
>   OR Post.PuppeteerLogin IS NULL)
>   AND (NOT EXISTS (SELECT PuppetIgnore.PuppetName
>   FROM ethereal.PuppetIgnore
>   WHERE PuppetIgnore='single'
>   AND PuppetIgnore.PuppeteerLogin='root'
>   AND PuppetIgnore.PuppetName=Post.PuppetName)
>   OR Post.PuppetName IS NULL)
>   ORDER BY Post.PostIDNumber LIMIT 100
>
> -- Explain of Above--
> Limit  (cost=0.00..260237.32 rows=100 width=48)
>    ->  Index Scan using pkpost on post  (cost=0.00..3020594.00 rows=1161
> width=48)
>          Filter: ((posttimestamp > (('now'::text)::timestamp(6) without
> time zone - '00:10'::interval)) AND (realmname = 'Amalgam'::character
> varying) AND ((postto = 'all'::character varying) OR (postto =
> 'root'::character varying)) AND ((NOT (subplan)) OR (puppeteerlogin IS
> NULL)) AND ((NOT (subplan)) OR (puppetname IS NULL)))

I think you might get better results with some kind of multi-column index.
It's using the index to avoid a sort it looks like, but it's not helping
to find the conditions. I can't remember the correct ordering, but maybe
(posttimestamp, realmname, postidnumber).  Having separate indexes on the
fields won't help currently since only one index will get chosen for the
scan.  Also, what does explain analyze show?


> -- NAME        : Post
> -- REFERENCES  : Realm*
> --               Puppet*
> --               PuppeteerLogin*
> --
> -- DESCRIPTION : Post is the hive of activity for all realms.
> Associated with all three
> --               major tables, it is not actually linked because of the
> nature of storing
> --               posts for statistics and auditing.
>
> CREATE TABLE ethereal.Post (
>    PostIDNumber         INT           NOT NULL DEFAULT
> NEXTVAL('ethereal.seqPost'),
>    RealmName            VARCHAR(30)   NOT NULL,
>    PuppetName           VARCHAR(30),
>    PuppeteerLogin       VARCHAR(10),
>    PostTo               VARCHAR(30),
>    PostTimestamp        TIMESTAMP     NOT NULL DEFAULT LOCALTIMESTAMP,
>    PostClass            VARCHAR(10)   NOT NULL DEFAULT 'general',
>    PostCmd              VARCHAR(10)   NOT NULL DEFAULT 'none',
>    PostFullFormat       TEXT,
>    PostImagelessFormat  TEXT,
>    PostPartialFormat    TEXT,
>    CONSTRAINT pkPost                  PRIMARY KEY (PostIDNumber),
>    CONSTRAINT enumPostClass           CHECK (PostCLass IN
> ('banner','dice','duplicate','general','play','private','special','system')),
>    CONSTRAINT enumPostCmd             CHECK (PostCmd IN
> ('general','none','play','stream'))
> ) WITHOUT OIDS;
>
> -- STANDARD INDEX
> CREATE INDEX idxPost_Class ON ethereal.Post
> (
>    PostClass
> );
>
> CREATE INDEX idxPost_Login ON ethereal.Post
> (
>    PuppeteerLogin
> );
>
> CREATE INDEX idxPost_Puppet ON ethereal.Post
> (
>    PuppetName
> );
>
> CREATE INDEX idxPost_Realm ON ethereal.Post
> (
>    RealmName
> );
>
> CREATE INDEX idxPost_Timestamp ON ethereal.Post
> (
>    PostTimestamp
> );
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
>



Re: Efficiency of timestamps

От
Martin Foster
Дата:
Stephan Szabo wrote:
>
>
> I think you might get better results with some kind of multi-column index.
> It's using the index to avoid a sort it looks like, but it's not helping
> to find the conditions. I can't remember the correct ordering, but maybe
> (posttimestamp, realmname, postidnumber).  Having separate indexes on the
> fields won't help currently since only one index will get chosen for the
> scan.  Also, what does explain analyze show?
>

Hope that shed's light on the matter.

  Limit  (cost=0.00..260237.32 rows=100 width=48) (actual
time=68810.26..68820.83 rows=55 loops=1)
    ->  Index Scan using pkpost on post  (cost=0.00..3020594.00
rows=1161 width=48) (actual time=68810.25..68820.72 rows=55 loops=1)
          Filter: ((posttimestamp > (('now'::text)::timestamp(6) without
time zone - '00:10'::interval)) AND (realmname = 'Amalgam'::character
varying) AND ((postto = 'all'::character varying) OR (postto =
'root'::character varying)) AND ((NOT (subplan)) OR (puppeteerlogin IS
NULL)) AND ((NOT (subplan)) OR (puppetname IS NULL)))
          SubPlan
            ->  Index Scan using pkpuppetignore on puppetignore
(cost=0.00..13.31 rows=1 width=10) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=0 loops=55)
                  Index Cond: (puppeteerlogin = 'root'::character varying)
                  Filter: ((puppetignore = 'global'::character varying)
AND (puppetlogin = $0))
            ->  Index Scan using pkpuppetignore on puppetignore
(cost=0.00..5.84 rows=1 width=15) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=0 loops=55)
                  Index Cond: ((puppeteerlogin = 'root'::character
varying) AND (puppetname = $1))
                  Filter: (puppetignore = 'single'::character varying)
  Total runtime: 68821.11 msec

--
    Martin Foster
    Creator/Designer Ethereal Realms
    martin@ethereal-realms.org



Re: Efficiency of timestamps

От
Stephan Szabo
Дата:
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Martin Foster wrote:

> Stephan Szabo wrote:
> >
> >
> > I think you might get better results with some kind of multi-column index.
> > It's using the index to avoid a sort it looks like, but it's not helping
> > to find the conditions. I can't remember the correct ordering, but maybe
> > (posttimestamp, realmname, postidnumber).  Having separate indexes on the
> > fields won't help currently since only one index will get chosen for the
> > scan.  Also, what does explain analyze show?
> >
>
> Hope that shed's light on the matter.
>
>   Limit  (cost=0.00..260237.32 rows=100 width=48) (actual
> time=68810.26..68820.83 rows=55 loops=1)
>     ->  Index Scan using pkpost on post  (cost=0.00..3020594.00
> rows=1161 width=48) (actual time=68810.25..68820.72 rows=55 loops=1)
>           Filter: ((posttimestamp > (('now'::text)::timestamp(6) without
> time zone - '00:10'::interval)) AND (realmname = 'Amalgam'::character
> varying) AND ((postto = 'all'::character varying) OR (postto =
> 'root'::character varying)) AND ((NOT (subplan)) OR (puppeteerlogin IS
> NULL)) AND ((NOT (subplan)) OR (puppetname IS NULL)))
>           SubPlan
>             ->  Index Scan using pkpuppetignore on puppetignore
> (cost=0.00..13.31 rows=1 width=10) (actual time=0.02..0.02 rows=0 loops=55)
>                   Index Cond: (puppeteerlogin = 'root'::character varying)
>                   Filter: ((puppetignore = 'global'::character varying)
> AND (puppetlogin = $0))
>             ->  Index Scan using pkpuppetignore on puppetignore
> (cost=0.00..5.84 rows=1 width=15) (actual time=0.01..0.01 rows=0 loops=55)
>                   Index Cond: ((puppeteerlogin = 'root'::character
> varying) AND (puppetname = $1))
>                   Filter: (puppetignore = 'single'::character varying)
>   Total runtime: 68821.11 msec

The row estimate is high. How many rows meet the various conditions and
some of the combinations? And how many rows does it estimate if you do a
simpler query on those with explain?

I still think some variety of multi-column index to make the above index
conditions would help, but you'd probably need to play with which ones
help, and with the cost cut for the limit, I don't know if it'd actually
get a better plan, but it may be worth trying a bunch and seeing which
ones are useful and then dropping the rest.



Re: Efficiency of timestamps

От
Martin Foster
Дата:
Stephan Szabo wrote:
>
>
> The row estimate is high. How many rows meet the various conditions and
> some of the combinations? And how many rows does it estimate if you do a
> simpler query on those with explain?
>
> I still think some variety of multi-column index to make the above index
> conditions would help, but you'd probably need to play with which ones
> help, and with the cost cut for the limit, I don't know if it'd actually
> get a better plan, but it may be worth trying a bunch and seeing which
> ones are useful and then dropping the rest.
>
>

At any given point in time you would not expect to see much more then 30
posts applying for a time based search.    That is primarily a result of
having more then one room for which posts are attached to, and then some
posts exist just to show people are there et cetera.

Simpler queries seem to do quiet well.   That view makes use of the same
table and seems to have no performance impact from doing as such, and
the position based search is considerably faster.

I can show EXPLAIN ANALYSE for all of those if you wish.

    Martin Foster
    Creator/Designer Ethereal Realms
    martin@ethereal-realms.org



Re: Efficiency of timestamps

От
Stephan Szabo
Дата:
On Tue, 8 Jul 2003, Martin Foster wrote:

> Stephan Szabo wrote:
>
> > The row estimate is high. How many rows meet the various conditions and
> > some of the combinations? And how many rows does it estimate if you do a
> > simpler query on those with explain?
> >
> > I still think some variety of multi-column index to make the above index
> > conditions would help, but you'd probably need to play with which ones
> > help, and with the cost cut for the limit, I don't know if it'd actually
> > get a better plan, but it may be worth trying a bunch and seeing which
> > ones are useful and then dropping the rest.
> >
> At any given point in time you would not expect to see much more then 30
> posts applying for a time based search.    That is primarily a result of
> having more then one room for which posts are attached to, and then some
> posts exist just to show people are there et cetera.
>
> Simpler queries seem to do quiet well.   That view makes use of the same
> table and seems to have no performance impact from doing as such, and
> the position based search is considerably faster.

Well, the reason I asked is to see both whether the estimates for the
various columns were somewhere near reality (if not, then you may need to
raise the statistics target for the column) which might affect whether
it'd consider using a multi-column index for the conditions and sort
rather than the index scan it was using.


Re: Efficiency of timestamps

От
Martin Foster
Дата:
Stephan Szabo wrote:
>
> Well, the reason I asked is to see both whether the estimates for the
> various columns were somewhere near reality (if not, then you may need to
> raise the statistics target for the column) which might affect whether
> it'd consider using a multi-column index for the conditions and sort
> rather than the index scan it was using.
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster

I'm going to have to pull out the 'Practical PostgreSQL' book and brush
up on optimizing.   This level of optimization is not something I have
had to deal with in the past.

Also to make this interesting.  The sub-query method is faster at times
and slower in others.   But doing two separate queries and working on
the PostIDNumber field exclusively is always blazingly fast...

     Martin Foster
     Creator/Designer Ethereal Realms
     martin@ethereal-realms.org