Обсуждение: Wanted: new project slogan

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Wanted: new project slogan

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
All,

I'll disagree with Rob that there's any issue with our logo, and the
branding on the name is too entrenched to change.

However, I think for 9.0 it's time for a new project slogan.

There's several problems with our current slogan:

"The Most Advanced Open Source Database"

(1) "most advanced" suggests that PostgreSQL is complex and
unapproachable by non-DB-experts.  It doesn't exactly encourage Drupal
and Wordpress geeks to give us a try, and as a result some potential PG
users are turning to CouchDB and MongoDB.

(2) LucidDB, Hadoop, Cassandra and others could now argue that "most
advanced" really depends on how you define "advanced".  While we are
still the most advanced general-purpose OSDB, they are ahead of us in
specific areas.

(3) A new slogan for 9.0 could help punch up the release and get some
people to try 9 who turned away from previous versions.

Given the above, I'd like to start this thread asking for suggestions
for a new project slogan.  When we have 4-5 solid ideas, we can put it
to a vote on a survey site somewhere.

--Josh Berkus

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 11:30 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> All,
>
> I'll disagree with Rob that there's any issue with our logo, and the
> branding on the name is too entrenched to change.

> (3) A new slogan for 9.0 could help punch up the release and get some
> people to try 9 who turned away from previous versions.
>
> Given the above, I'd like to start this thread asking for suggestions
> for a new project slogan.  When we have 4-5 solid ideas, we can put it
> to a vote on a survey site somewhere.

Woot! +1

PostgreSQL
The world's open source database




--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Adrian Klaver
Дата:
On 01/25/2010 11:30 AM, Josh Berkus wrote:
> All,
>
> I'll disagree with Rob that there's any issue with our logo, and the
> branding on the name is too entrenched to change.
>
> However, I think for 9.0 it's time for a new project slogan.
>
> There's several problems with our current slogan:
>
> "The Most Advanced Open Source Database"
>
> (1) "most advanced" suggests that PostgreSQL is complex and
> unapproachable by non-DB-experts.  It doesn't exactly encourage Drupal
> and Wordpress geeks to give us a try, and as a result some potential PG
> users are turning to CouchDB and MongoDB.
>
> (2) LucidDB, Hadoop, Cassandra and others could now argue that "most
> advanced" really depends on how you define "advanced".  While we are
> still the most advanced general-purpose OSDB, they are ahead of us in
> specific areas.
>
> (3) A new slogan for 9.0 could help punch up the release and get some
> people to try 9 who turned away from previous versions.
>
> Given the above, I'd like to start this thread asking for suggestions
> for a new project slogan.  When we have 4-5 solid ideas, we can put it
> to a vote on a survey site somewhere.
>
> --Josh Berkus
>

The Database for Restful Nights
The Elephant Never Forgets
Stability,Extendability,Community

--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.klaver@gmail.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Dave Page
Дата:
<sigh>Might have been better to suggest this before we ordered a
shedload of swag using the current tagline after discussion here :-(

On 1/25/10, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
> All,
>
> I'll disagree with Rob that there's any issue with our logo, and the
> branding on the name is too entrenched to change.
>
> However, I think for 9.0 it's time for a new project slogan.
>
> There's several problems with our current slogan:
>
> "The Most Advanced Open Source Database"
>
> (1) "most advanced" suggests that PostgreSQL is complex and
> unapproachable by non-DB-experts.  It doesn't exactly encourage Drupal
> and Wordpress geeks to give us a try, and as a result some potential PG
> users are turning to CouchDB and MongoDB.
>
> (2) LucidDB, Hadoop, Cassandra and others could now argue that "most
> advanced" really depends on how you define "advanced".  While we are
> still the most advanced general-purpose OSDB, they are ahead of us in
> specific areas.
>
> (3) A new slogan for 9.0 could help punch up the release and get some
> people to try 9 who turned away from previous versions.
>
> Given the above, I'd like to start this thread asking for suggestions
> for a new project slogan.  When we have 4-5 solid ideas, we can put it
> to a vote on a survey site somewhere.
>
> --Josh Berkus
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy
>


--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
On 1/25/10 12:22 PM, Dave Page wrote:
> <sigh>Might have been better to suggest this before we ordered a
> shedload of swag using the current tagline after discussion here :-(

Hopefully you didn't order anything with "8.5" on it.

Besides, I didn't see the swag thread, unless it's "new mug design".

--Josh



Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 11:30 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> All,
>
> I'll disagree with Rob that there's any issue with our logo, and the
> branding on the name is too entrenched to change.

> (3) A new slogan for 9.0 could help punch up the release and get some
> people to try 9 who turned away from previous versions.
>
> Given the above, I'd like to start this thread asking for suggestions
> for a new project slogan.  When we have 4-5 solid ideas, we can put it
> to a vote on a survey site somewhere.

Woot! +1

PostgreSQL
The world's open source database




--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Rafael Martinez
Дата:
Josh Berkus wrote:

> Given the above, I'd like to start this thread asking for suggestions
> for a new project slogan.  When we have 4-5 solid ideas, we can put it
> to a vote on a survey site somewhere.
>

PostgreSQL / It just works
PostgreSQL / Works for you
PostgreSQL / Will not let you down
PostgreSQL / Looks after your data
PostgreSQL / Your SQL database
PostgreSQL / Your next database

--
 Rafael Martinez, <r.m.guerrero@usit.uio.no>
 Center for Information Technology Services
 University of Oslo, Norway

 PGP Public Key: http://folk.uio.no/rafael/

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Dave Page
Дата:
On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
> On 1/25/10 12:22 PM, Dave Page wrote:
>> <sigh>Might have been better to suggest this before we ordered a
>> shedload of swag using the current tagline after discussion here :-(
>
> Hopefully you didn't order anything with "8.5" on it.

No, we're not that dappy.

> Besides, I didn't see the swag thread, unless it's "new mug design".

It was. Following that thread we ordered lots of mugs and shirts.

--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Raymond O'Donnell
Дата:
On 25/01/2010 19:30, Josh Berkus wrote:
> All,
>
> I'll disagree with Rob that there's any issue with our logo, and the
> branding on the name is too entrenched to change.
>
> However, I think for 9.0 it's time for a new project slogan.
>
> There's several problems with our current slogan:
>
> "The Most Advanced Open Source Database"

"The most reliable open source database".

Ray.

--
Raymond O'Donnell :: Galway :: Ireland
rod@iol.ie

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Dimitri Fontaine
Дата:
Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> writes:
> However, I think for 9.0 it's time for a new project slogan.

  The Professional Database Solution

I'm failing to find an English phrase (or single world) to express that
PostgreSQL is offering way more than just data storage. Like a protocol,
an extensible system (types, operator classes, indexes, user functions),
a development system, etc.

So in lots of cases where you need 3-tier architecture, the middleware
part can be (and more often than not, is best) implemented inside
PostgreSQL.

Regards,
--
dim

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Mike Ellsworth
Дата:
- Start here. Get there.

- If your Data is Important

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Oliver Kohll
Дата:
Just from the key words in http://www.postgresql.org/about/:

Open Source Power and Reliability

or Power with Integrity

(a play on 'integrity' you see, but don't know whether plays on words are a good idea)

Oliver Kohll


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Magnus Hagander
Дата:
2010/1/26 Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org>:
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2010 at 9:51 PM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
>> On 1/25/10 12:22 PM, Dave Page wrote:
>>> <sigh>Might have been better to suggest this before we ordered a
>>> shedload of swag using the current tagline after discussion here :-(
>>
>> Hopefully you didn't order anything with "8.5" on it.
>
> No, we're not that dappy.
>
>> Besides, I didn't see the swag thread, unless it's "new mug design".
>
> It was. Following that thread we ordered lots of mugs and shirts.

Don't forget there is a lot of other stuff with that slogan on it.
Rollups, posters, etc - all the kind of re-usable conference stuff
that you don't replace every time.

You should probably count at least a couple of thousand dollars in
pure replacement costs (not counting work time of course).

But in general, it's usually claimed that's a small part of the cost
of replacing a logo or slogan. You might want to do some kind of
cost-analysis on what this is actually going to cost before pushing
something like that through.

(Oh, and when talking about other databases claiming to be more
advanced. If you're comparing with other OSS databases, mysql still
claims to be the most popular opensource database, and I don't see
sqlite complaining loudly about that - though I believe they have a
lot more installations. not to mention berkeleydb)

--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: http://www.hagander.net/
 Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Erik Rijkers"
Дата:
On Mon, January 25, 2010 20:30, Josh Berkus wrote:
>
> a new project slogan.
>



  PostgreSQL - The Open Source Elephant Memory




Erik Rijkers






Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Greg Sabino Mullane"
Дата:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160


> However, I think for 9.0 it's time for a new project slogan.
>
> There's several problems with our current slogan:

Nobody has ever raised any issues with our slogan before, though...

> (1) "most advanced" suggests that PostgreSQL is complex and
> unapproachable by non-DB-experts.  It doesn't exactly encourage Drupal
> and Wordpress geeks to give us a try, and as a result some potential PG
> users are turning to CouchDB and MongoDB.

Because we have "advanced" in our slogan?! Seems unlikely.

> (2) LucidDB, Hadoop, Cassandra and others could now argue that "most
> advanced" really depends on how you define "advanced".  While we are
> still the most advanced general-purpose OSDB, they are ahead of us in
> specific areas.

Well, sure, but that's going to be true no matter what
superlative we choose.

> (3) A new slogan for 9.0 could help punch up the release and get some
> people to try 9 who turned away from previous versions.

Agreed with the first, but not the second.

> Given the above, I'd like to start this thread asking for suggestions
> for a new project slogan.  When we have 4-5 solid ideas, we can put it
> to a vote on a survey site somewhere.

- -1 on the slogan change. But... <humor>

Oh, I can't resist.. :) How about:

PostgreSQL: Unpronounceably awesome!

PostgreSQL: The most powerful software you can't pronounce

PostgreSQL: The open source Oracle with the funny name

- --
Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 201001261032
http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

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=DEsS
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Gabriele Bartolini
Дата:
Josh Berkus ha scritto:
> Given the above, I'd like to start this thread asking for suggestions
> for a new project slogan.  When we have 4-5 solid ideas, we can put it
> to a vote on a survey site somewhere.
>
>

My first suggestion is a very simple and "humble" one: :)

PostgreSQL
Open-Source Database


--
 Gabriele Bartolini - 2ndQuadrant Italia
 PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
 gabriele.bartolini@2ndQuadrant.it | www.2ndQuadrant.it


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 17:43 +0100, Gabriele Bartolini wrote:
> Josh Berkus ha scritto:
> > Given the above, I'd like to start this thread asking for suggestions
> > for a new project slogan.  When we have 4-5 solid ideas, we can put it
> > to a vote on a survey site somewhere.
> >
> >
>
> My first suggestion is a very simple and "humble" one: :)
>
> PostgreSQL
> Open-Source Database

Or...

PostgreSQL
The Open Source Database

Of course I know that isn't going to happen, because for some reason we
must all get along, but man... the stomping we could do with that.

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Gabriele Bartolini
Дата:
Joshua D. Drake ha scritto:
> PostgreSQL
> The Open Source Database
>
I had actually thought about this as well, but I deliberately removed
the 'The' article, as I would love users to add it. :)

--
 Gabriele Bartolini - 2ndQuadrant Italia
 PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
 gabriele.bartolini@2ndQuadrant.it | www.2ndQuadrant.it


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Michael Alan Brewer
Дата:
PostgreSQL
*Your* Open Source Database

---Michael Brewer
mbrewer@gmail.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 12:00 -0500, Michael Alan Brewer wrote:
> PostgreSQL
> *Your* Open Source Database


Ohhhhhhh..... I like that.

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Joshua Kramer
Дата:
> Open Source Power and Reliability

Here's a novel idea.  Can we create a slogan (and other marketing
collateral) without the use of the term "Open Source"?  This may give
Postgres a 'foot in the door' to those entities who are irrationally
afraid of Open Source software... I am aiming directly at the vast
majority of SQL-Server workloads for which SQL-Server's advanced features
(reporting, DotNet integration, etc) are not needed.  For example:

Postgres: Security, Power, and High Performance

vs.

Postgres: Open Source Security, Power, and High Performance

--

-----
http://www.globalherald.net/jb01
GlobalHerald.NET, the Smarter Social Network! (tm)

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Richard Broersma
Дата:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:

> PostgreSQL
> The Open Source Database

How about:

The 'Open' Open Source Database


--
Regards,
Richard Broersma Jr.

Visit the Los Angeles PostgreSQL Users Group (LAPUG)
http://pugs.postgresql.org/lapug

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 13:34 -0500, Joshua Kramer wrote:
> > Open Source Power and Reliability
>
> Here's a novel idea.  Can we create a slogan (and other marketing
> collateral) without the use of the term "Open Source"?  This may give
> Postgres a 'foot in the door' to those entities who are irrationally
> afraid of Open Source software... I am aiming directly at the vast
> majority of SQL-Server workloads for which SQL-Server's advanced features
> (reporting, DotNet integration, etc) are not needed.  For example:
>

Not a bad idea but... uh -- We have DotNet capabilties, reporting
capabilities etc...

> Postgres: Security, Power, and High Performance
>

I think removing Open Source from our slogan is a mistake. It is one of
the things that makes us who we are.

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
> I think removing Open Source from our slogan is a mistake. It is one of
> the things that makes us who we are.
>

How about something like:

Postgres: Liberate Your Data!

--
greg

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
David Fetter
Дата:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 09:06:17AM -0800, Richard Broersma wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
>
> > PostgreSQL
> > The Open Source Database
>
> How about:
>
> The 'Open' Open Source Database

If the Firebird copyrights are in intentionally limited hands, we can
go with this. :)

Cheers,
David.
--
David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com
iCal: webcal://www.tripit.com/feed/ical/people/david74/tripit.ics

Remember to vote!
Consider donating to Postgres: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Nikolas Everett
Дата:


On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 12:07 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 13:34 -0500, Joshua Kramer wrote:
> > Open Source Power and Reliability
>
> Here's a novel idea.  Can we create a slogan (and other marketing
> collateral) without the use of the term "Open Source"?  This may give
> Postgres a 'foot in the door' to those entities who are irrationally
> afraid of Open Source software... I am aiming directly at the vast
> majority of SQL-Server workloads for which SQL-Server's advanced features
> (reporting, DotNet integration, etc) are not needed.  For example:
>

Not a bad idea but... uh -- We have DotNet capabilties, reporting
capabilities etc...


I could be wrong but I believe he meant LINQ and MDX.  I was going to write a really incredulous email about how we indeed don't have those features but it turns out we have both:
There are a few open source and at least on commercial product to provide LINQ to PostgreSQL support.  From what I can tell the open source products aren't really done yet.  One says it doesn't support transactions.
The open source Mondrian project can sit in front of a whole bunch of different databases, including PostgreSQL, to provide MDX capabilities.

The problem is none of them right out of the box so to speak.  They all take fiddling.

Nik Everett

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
>> Besides, I didn't see the swag thread, unless it's "new mug design".
>
> It was. Following that thread we ordered lots of mugs and shirts.

Stopped tracking that thread.  Given that I was travelling and was not
interested in mugs for the USA (per discussion), I stopped paying
attention to it before you added the slogan to the design; previous
discussion had involved putting something else entirely on the mugs.

Anyway, it's likely to take us until July to come up with a new slogan.
 So you have plenty of time to move the merchandise.  And it's not as if
the "Most Advanced" slogan is frowned on, I just want to replace it with
something better.

--Josh Berkus


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Joshua Kramer
Дата:
> Not a bad idea but... uh -- We have DotNet capabilties, reporting
> capabilities etc...

I know that... what I'm talking about are things like writing stored
procedures using DotNet assemblies, as well as the reporting components
that are included with SQL-Server itself.  Many companies use these
components, and it'd be darn near impossible to get them working with any
other data source.

> I think removing Open Source from our slogan is a mistake. It is one of
> the things that makes us who we are.

Perhaps EnterpriseDB could fill the niche I'm talking about, but (for the
free version anyway) they've got that pesky 4GB limit just like SQL-Server
Express does.  :)

--JK

--

-----
http://www.globalherald.net/jb01
GlobalHerald.NET, the Smarter Social Network! (tm)

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Greg Smith
Дата:
Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
> PostgreSQL: The most powerful software you can't pronounce
>

I don't think you're fully taking advantage of the opportunity to
advance your name change agenda into the slogan with:

PostgreSQL:  It's OK to call it Postgres, just not Postgre

I'm not sure if it's a great idea to drag this never ending thread along
here--I can see some of the business types who I know follow along here
just unsubscribing over a flood of messages from this list.  I'd think
that a blog posting from someone interested in collecting slogan ideas
would be a better way to collect up initial brainstorming ideas from the
community at large, rather than this list which isn't that well
populated really.

--
Greg Smith    2ndQuadrant   Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
greg@2ndQuadrant.com  www.2ndQuadrant.com


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
Greg,

> I'd think
> that a blog posting from someone interested in collecting slogan ideas
> would be a better way to collect up initial brainstorming ideas from the
> community at large, rather than this list which isn't that well
> populated really.

If coming up with a new slogan isn't the business of the -advocacy list,
what is?  It's certainly more central to the list than a discussion
about the Oracle-Sun acquisition.

And I *especially* want to hear from the business types about what they
would consider a good slogan.

--Josh Berkus


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 15:42 -0500, Joshua Kramer wrote:
> > Not a bad idea but... uh -- We have DotNet capabilties, reporting
> > capabilities etc...
>
> I know that... what I'm talking about are things like writing stored
> procedures using DotNet assemblies, as well as the reporting components
> that are included with SQL-Server itself.  Many companies use these
> components, and it'd be darn near impossible to get them working with any
> other data source.
>
> > I think removing Open Source from our slogan is a mistake. It is one of
> > the things that makes us who we are.
>
> Perhaps EnterpriseDB could fill the niche I'm talking about, but (for the
> free version anyway) they've got that pesky 4GB limit just like SQL-Server
> Express does.  :)

I think you are confusing Postgres Plus with Postgres Plus Advanced
Server.

Joshua D. Drake


>
> --JK
>
> --
>
> -----
> http://www.globalherald.net/jb01
> GlobalHerald.NET, the Smarter Social Network! (tm)
>


--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Bruce Momjian
Дата:
Richard Broersma wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
>
> > PostgreSQL
> > The Open Source Database
>
> How about:
>
> The 'Open' Open Source Database

And of course:

                2
    The Open  Source Database

--
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Joshua Kramer
Дата:
> I think you are confusing Postgres Plus with Postgres Plus Advanced
> Server.

Here's what I'm trying to get at.  Most databases that are aimed directly
at enterprise apps either have a) a price tag, or b) limitations on use
(as in SQL-Server Express, the free version of EnterpriseDB, Oracle XE).

I would like to create a slogan that takes plain vanilla PostgreSQL (*NOT*
the EnterpriseDB versions), the PostgreSQL that has no funny restrictions
and that you can use to store terabytes of data, and aims it squarely at
those types of workloads that would traditionally run the Express versions
of SQL-S, Oracle, or EnterpriseDB.

--

-----
http://www.globalherald.net/jb01
GlobalHerald.NET, the Smarter Social Network! (tm)

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
> Nobody has ever raised any issues with our slogan before, though...

They have, actually.  Particularly professional marketing types, who
*do* have some experience when it comes to slogans.

(josh waits for Rob Napier to speak up)

And it's possible we won't change it just because we can't come up with
a better one.

>> (1) "most advanced" suggests that PostgreSQL is complex and
>> unapproachable by non-DB-experts.  It doesn't exactly encourage Drupal
>> and Wordpress geeks to give us a try, and as a result some potential PG
>> users are turning to CouchDB and MongoDB.
>
> Because we have "advanced" in our slogan?! Seems unlikely.

Actually, I heard this from a couple of Drupal folks at LCA just last
week.  And *in general* Postgres now has the image of being
high-performance, powerful, big, and very, very complex.  This is one of
the reasons non-relational DBs are getting so many new users.

Obviously, HOWTOs, tutorial, videos, and simple admin tools will go
further towards driving adoption.  But I think we need work on our image
as well.

> PostgreSQL: Unpronounceably awesome!

Hah!

--Josh

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 11:45 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> > Nobody has ever raised any issues with our slogan before, though...

> Actually, I heard this from a couple of Drupal folks at LCA just last
> week.  And *in general* Postgres now has the image of being
> high-performance, powerful, big, and very, very complex.  This is one of
> the reasons non-relational DBs are getting so many new users.

You realize we are high-performance, powerful, and very very complex
right?

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Greg Sabino Mullane"
Дата:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160


>> Nobody has ever raised any issues with our slogan before, though...

> They have, actually.  Particularly professional marketing types, who
> *do* have some experience when it comes to slogans.

Okay, I'll amend that to say that in the last 10 years nobody has ever
raised the issue once on any mailing list (that I recall anyway).

> And it's possible we won't change it just because we can't come up with
> a better one.

Fair enough. In all seriousness I've not seen a better one in the
proposals so far, but no harm in trying.

> Actually, I heard this from a couple of Drupal folks at LCA just last
> week.  And *in general* Postgres now has the image of being
> high-performance, powerful, big, and very, very complex.  This is one of
> the reasons non-relational DBs are getting so many new users.

Waddya mean, the "image of"?! :) Although compared to Oracle and SQL Server,
we are very uncomplex and simple to administer. Don't know how you
put that in a slogan, though.

> Obviously, HOWTOs, tutorial, videos, and simple admin tools will go
> further towards driving adoption.  But I think we need work on our image
> as well.

Highly agreed.

- --
Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 201001261451
http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----

iEYEAREDAAYFAktfSBAACgkQvJuQZxSWSsh2kACfSQ1rgFNMpbYNGjD24Wzpl7VY
l9gAn1J6QEhs32190s97SiANoOHMGWgE
=6QIU
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----



Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Bruce Momjian
Дата:
Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
> > Actually, I heard this from a couple of Drupal folks at LCA just last
> > week.  And *in general* Postgres now has the image of being
> > high-performance, powerful, big, and very, very complex.  This is one of
> > the reasons non-relational DBs are getting so many new users.
>
> Waddya mean, the "image of"?! :) Although compared to Oracle and SQL Server,
> we are very uncomplex and simple to administer. Don't know how you
> put that in a slogan, though.

Sure, new slogan:

    PostgreSQL:  Less complex than Oracle (but that doesn't mean much)

--
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Dave Page
Дата:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 8:42 PM, Joshua Kramer <josh@globalherald.net> wrote:
>
> Perhaps EnterpriseDB could fill the niche I'm talking about, but (for the
> free version anyway) they've got that pesky 4GB limit just like SQL-Server
> Express does.  :)

Our free distro is standard PostgreSQL + a bunch of useful extra
stuff. There's no 4GB limit.


--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Chris Browne
Дата:
josh@agliodbs.com (Josh Berkus) writes:
> Greg,
>
>> I'd think
>> that a blog posting from someone interested in collecting slogan ideas
>> would be a better way to collect up initial brainstorming ideas from the
>> community at large, rather than this list which isn't that well
>> populated really.
>
> If coming up with a new slogan isn't the business of the -advocacy list,
> what is?  It's certainly more central to the list than a discussion
> about the Oracle-Sun acquisition.
>
> And I *especially* want to hear from the business types about what they
> would consider a good slogan.
>
> --Josh Berkus

Peter Eisentraut blogged something about this with some suggestion of
moniker containing the word "universal," which seems attractive to me...

Once upon a time, Informix renamed (at a time when there were some
commonalities in the original provenance of our respective code bases,
since at one time, Postgres begat Illustra...) to "Informix UDB",
suggesting some "universality" of their implementation.

I think we have more "universalness" than they did then ;-).
--
let name="cbbrowne" and tld="gmail.com" in String.concat "@" [name;tld];;
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/slony.html
What is the difference between a robot and a duck?
Answer: A duck floats when you throw it in the water.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Rodger Donaldson
Дата:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 04:15:27PM -0500, Chris Browne wrote:
>
> I think we have more "universalness" than they did then ;-).

Your Data: Any time, Any Place.

--
Rodger Donaldson        rodgerd@diaspora.gen.nz

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Selena Deckelmann
Дата:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Rodger Donaldson
<rodgerd@diaspora.gen.nz> wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 04:15:27PM -0500, Chris Browne wrote:
>>
>> I think we have more "universalness" than they did then ;-).
>
> Your Data: Any time, Any Place.

Haha. :)  +1

Maybe we should have a few different things that we say. This project
has never been about having a unified vision of it's own future (oh,
someone please argue with me about that!).

Why not just embrace that fact and pick the best five slogans from the
ones that have been offered? AND ROTATE THEM! :)

-selena


--
http://chesnok.com/daily - me
http://endpoint.com - work

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Adrian Klaver
Дата:
On Tuesday 26 January 2010 3:26:42 pm Selena Deckelmann wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Rodger Donaldson
>
> <rodgerd@diaspora.gen.nz> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 04:15:27PM -0500, Chris Browne wrote:
> >> I think we have more "universalness" than they did then ;-).
> >
> > Your Data: Any time, Any Place.
>
> Haha. :)  +1
>
> Maybe we should have a few different things that we say. This project
> has never been about having a unified vision of it's own future (oh,
> someone please argue with me about that!).
>
> Why not just embrace that fact and pick the best five slogans from the
> ones that have been offered? AND ROTATE THEM! :)

Sort of the Magic 8 ball effect :)

>
> -selena


--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.klaver@gmail.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Joshua Kramer
Дата:
> Why not just embrace that fact and pick the best five slogans from the
> ones that have been offered? AND ROTATE THEM! :)

Or better yet, let's implement a markov chain algorithm to periodically
come up with new slogans based on the frequency of occurrence of various
words in this slogan debate!

--

-----
http://www.globalherald.net/jb01
GlobalHerald.NET, the Smarter Social Network! (tm)

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 15:26 -0800, Selena Deckelmann wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Rodger Donaldson
> <rodgerd@diaspora.gen.nz> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 04:15:27PM -0500, Chris Browne wrote:
> >>
> >> I think we have more "universalness" than they did then ;-).
> >
> > Your Data: Any time, Any Place.
>
> Haha. :)  +1
>
> Maybe we should have a few different things that we say. This project
> has never been about having a unified vision of it's own future (oh,
> someone please argue with me about that!).

O.k. :)

We do have a unified vision of the the future. In that there is no
unified vision of the future.

>
> Why not just embrace that fact and pick the best five slogans from the
> ones that have been offered? AND ROTATE THEM! :)

Ohhh, I like that. Have some fun with it.

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Scott Bailey
Дата:
David Fetter wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 09:06:17AM -0800, Richard Broersma wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
>>
>>> PostgreSQL
>>> The Open Source Database
>> How about:
>>
>> The 'Open' Open Source Database
>
> If the Firebird copyrights are in intentionally limited hands, we can
> go with this. :)

Well if not their code, then certainly their documentation. You pretty
much have to purchase a book to do anything.

But I'd hope we're past the stage of comparing ourselves with MySQL or
Firebird. Instead we should focus on what makes us attractive to Oracle,
DB2 or SQL Server shops.

When working on some databases, especially SQL Server, I always get so
frustrated with how difficult everything is. So maybe a slogan like:
   PostgreSQL - Enjoy your database again
   PostgreSQL - The database you'll love
   PostgreSQL - Setting the standard for following the standard

Obviously the hit on Oracle is the cost, management and intrusiveness.
   Because transaction processing need not involve your credit card
   PostgreSQL - Because your database shouldn't manage you
   PostgreSQL - Power without a 6 figure baby sitter

And if we really need to poke at MySQL then:
   PostgreSQL - Licensed to kill

Ok, well all of my suggestions suck. But you get the point.

Scott


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Joshua Kramer
Дата:
> We do have a unified vision of the the future. In that there is no
> unified vision of the future.

PostgreSQL: The Database of Entropic Destinies.

--

-----
http://www.globalherald.net/jb01
GlobalHerald.NET, the Smarter Social Network! (tm)

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Scott Bailey
Дата:
Joshua Kramer wrote:
>
>> We do have a unified vision of the the future. In that there is no
>> unified vision of the future.
>
> PostgreSQL: The Database of Entropic Destinies.
>
LOL. That would look awesome on a tie-die!

Scott

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 17:43 +0100, Gabriele Bartolini wrote:
> Josh Berkus ha scritto:
> > Given the above, I'd like to start this thread asking for suggestions
> > for a new project slogan.  When we have 4-5 solid ideas, we can put it
> > to a vote on a survey site somewhere.
> >
> >
>
> My first suggestion is a very simple and "humble" one: :)
>
> PostgreSQL
> Open-Source Database

Or...

PostgreSQL
The Open Source Database

Of course I know that isn't going to happen, because for some reason we
must all get along, but man... the stomping we could do with that.

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Joe Conway
Дата:
On 01/26/2010 03:34 PM, Scott Bailey wrote:
> When working on some databases, especially SQL Server, I always get so
> frustrated with how difficult everything is. So maybe a slogan like:
>   PostgreSQL - Enjoy your database again
>   PostgreSQL - The database you'll love
>   PostgreSQL - Setting the standard for following the standard

I like the general concept -- how 'bout:

PostgreSQL - Powerful Freedom

Joe


Вложения

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Bruce Momjian
Дата:
Scott Bailey wrote:
> David Fetter wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 09:06:17AM -0800, Richard Broersma wrote:
> >> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> PostgreSQL
> >>> The Open Source Database
> >> How about:
> >>
> >> The 'Open' Open Source Database
> >
> > If the Firebird copyrights are in intentionally limited hands, we can
> > go with this. :)
>
> Well if not their code, then certainly their documentation. You pretty
> much have to purchase a book to do anything.
>
> But I'd hope we're past the stage of comparing ourselves with MySQL or
> Firebird. Instead we should focus on what makes us attractive to Oracle,
> DB2 or SQL Server shops.
>
> When working on some databases, especially SQL Server, I always get so
> frustrated with how difficult everything is. So maybe a slogan like:
>    PostgreSQL - Enjoy your database again

I like the one above.

>    PostgreSQL - The database you'll love
>    PostgreSQL - Setting the standard for following the standard

The Pennsylvania Railroad slogan was "Standard Railroad of the World".
Can we modify that somehow?

> Obviously the hit on Oracle is the cost, management and intrusiveness.
>    Because transaction processing need not involve your credit card
>    PostgreSQL - Because your database shouldn't manage you
>    PostgreSQL - Power without a 6 figure baby sitter
>
> And if we really need to poke at MySQL then:
>    PostgreSQL - Licensed to kill

Good one --- has a James Bond feel, and I do think that using several
different slogans has real value.

--
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Dawid Kuroczko
Дата:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 20:09, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> Richard Broersma wrote:
>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
>> > PostgreSQL
>> > The Open Source Database
>>
>> How about:
>> The 'Open' Open Source Database
>
> And of course:
>                2
>        The Open  Source Database

And on similar theme, why not just:

PostgreSQL: The Open Database

not only 'source' is open, the community is open, the possibilities
are open, the data inside is open.

some other ideas:

PostgreSQL - Feel Free.

PostgreSQL: Your Data is Important.

PostgreSQL: Meet the Future.

  Best regards,
       Dawid

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 12:00 -0500, Michael Alan Brewer wrote:
> PostgreSQL
> *Your* Open Source Database


Ohhhhhhh..... I like that.

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 13:34 -0500, Joshua Kramer wrote:
> > Open Source Power and Reliability
>
> Here's a novel idea.  Can we create a slogan (and other marketing
> collateral) without the use of the term "Open Source"?  This may give
> Postgres a 'foot in the door' to those entities who are irrationally
> afraid of Open Source software... I am aiming directly at the vast
> majority of SQL-Server workloads for which SQL-Server's advanced features
> (reporting, DotNet integration, etc) are not needed.  For example:
>

Not a bad idea but... uh -- We have DotNet capabilties, reporting
capabilities etc...

> Postgres: Security, Power, and High Performance
>

I think removing Open Source from our slogan is a mistake. It is one of
the things that makes us who we are.

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Rodger Donaldson"
Дата:
On Wed, January 27, 2010 12:29, Adrian Klaver wrote:
>> Maybe we should have a few different things that we say. This project
>> has never been about having a unified vision of it's own future (oh,
>> someone please argue with me about that!).
>>
>> Why not just embrace that fact and pick the best five slogans from the
>> ones that have been offered? AND ROTATE THEM! :)
>
> Sort of the Magic 8 ball effect :)

"Magic 8-Ball" and "Database" is perhaps a pair to avoid.

select  cust_balance
from    general_ledger
where   cust_id = 'foo'

"Outlook not so good."

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Greg Smith
Дата:
Dawid Kuroczko wrote:
> not only 'source' is open, the community is open, the possibilities
> are open, the data inside is open.
>

This idea respins into a neat slogan:

PostgreSQL:  Open-Source Database, Open-Ended Possibilities

--
Greg Smith    2ndQuadrant   Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
greg@2ndQuadrant.com  www.2ndQuadrant.com


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 15:42 -0500, Joshua Kramer wrote:
> > Not a bad idea but... uh -- We have DotNet capabilties, reporting
> > capabilities etc...
>
> I know that... what I'm talking about are things like writing stored
> procedures using DotNet assemblies, as well as the reporting components
> that are included with SQL-Server itself.  Many companies use these
> components, and it'd be darn near impossible to get them working with any
> other data source.
>
> > I think removing Open Source from our slogan is a mistake. It is one of
> > the things that makes us who we are.
>
> Perhaps EnterpriseDB could fill the niche I'm talking about, but (for the
> free version anyway) they've got that pesky 4GB limit just like SQL-Server
> Express does.  :)

I think you are confusing Postgres Plus with Postgres Plus Advanced
Server.

Joshua D. Drake


>
> --JK
>
> --
>
> -----
> http://www.globalherald.net/jb01
> GlobalHerald.NET, the Smarter Social Network! (tm)
>


--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 11:45 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> > Nobody has ever raised any issues with our slogan before, though...

> Actually, I heard this from a couple of Drupal folks at LCA just last
> week.  And *in general* Postgres now has the image of being
> high-performance, powerful, big, and very, very complex.  This is one of
> the reasons non-relational DBs are getting so many new users.

You realize we are high-performance, powerful, and very very complex
right?

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Devrim GÜNDÜZ
Дата:
On Mon, 2010-01-25 at 11:30 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> There's several problems with our current slogan:
>
> "The Most Advanced Open Source Database"

<snip>

Heh, *I think* none of the suggestions are better than current one.

Even though I agree with your concerns regarding the current one and I
also believe that we need to change it (or add more slogans), IMO we
need something that suits our product, not our t-shirts or flyers.

(... FWIW, I have always found MySQL's slogan stupid. Popularity does
not mean that they doing the Right Thing.)
--
Devrim GÜNDÜZ, RHCE
Command Prompt - http://www.CommandPrompt.com
devrim~gunduz.org, devrim~PostgreSQL.org, devrim.gunduz~linux.org.tr
http://www.gunduz.org  Twitter: http://twitter.com/devrimgunduz


Вложения

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 15:26 -0800, Selena Deckelmann wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 2:37 PM, Rodger Donaldson
> <rodgerd@diaspora.gen.nz> wrote:
> > On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 04:15:27PM -0500, Chris Browne wrote:
> >>
> >> I think we have more "universalness" than they did then ;-).
> >
> > Your Data: Any time, Any Place.
>
> Haha. :)  +1
>
> Maybe we should have a few different things that we say. This project
> has never been about having a unified vision of it's own future (oh,
> someone please argue with me about that!).

O.k. :)

We do have a unified vision of the the future. In that there is no
unified vision of the future.

>
> Why not just embrace that fact and pick the best five slogans from the
> ones that have been offered? AND ROTATE THEM! :)

Ohhh, I like that. Have some fun with it.

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Florian Weimer
Дата:
* Greg Stark:

> On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 5:07 PM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote:
>> I think removing Open Source from our slogan is a mistake. It is one of
>> the things that makes us who we are.
>>
>
> How about something like:
>
> Postgres: Liberate Your Data!

A lot of companies (and individuals, too) don't want to see their data
liberated.  That's why "open" doesn't seem to be such a great term in
the database context.  Of course, there are different kinds of
openness (format and algorithms vs content), but that's a rather
subtle point, I think.

--
Florian Weimer                <fweimer@bfk.de>
BFK edv-consulting GmbH       http://www.bfk.de/
Kriegsstraße 100              tel: +49-721-96201-1
D-76133 Karlsruhe             fax: +49-721-96201-99

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Michael Alan Brewer
Дата:
On Tue, Jan 26, 2010 at 6:29 PM, Adrian Klaver <adrian.klaver@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tuesday 26 January 2010 3:26:42 pm Selena Deckelmann wrote:
>>
>> Why not just embrace that fact and pick the best five slogans from the
>> ones that have been offered? AND ROTATE THEM! :)
>
> Sort of the Magic 8 ball effect :)

Am now visualizing a (blue) Magic 9.0 Ball (to promote the next release). ;)

---Michael Brewer
mbrewer@gmail.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Gabriele Bartolini
Дата:
I am reporting this suggestion:

PostgreSQL: Your SQL

or

PostgreSQL: YourSQL

(Don't blame me, I am just reporting)

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Scott Bailey
Дата:
Gabriele Bartolini wrote:
> I am reporting this suggestion:
>
> PostgreSQL: Your SQL
>
> or
>
> PostgreSQL: YourSQL
>
> (Don't blame me, I am just reporting)

*shivers* definitely not.

But perhaps
PostgreSQL: Even better with bacon!

Scott

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Chris Browne
Дата:
bruce@momjian.us (Bruce Momjian) writes:
> Good one --- has a James Bond feel, and I do think that using several
> different slogans has real value.

We could set up an, um, database of slogans, maybe?
--
let name="cbbrowne" and tld="gmail.com" in name ^ "@" ^ tld;;
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/emacs.html
"Microsoft  OS's  are good because  they   encourage Intel  to produce
faster CPUs for the rest of us to run Unix on." -- George Dau

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Chris Browne
Дата:
josh@globalherald.net (Joshua Kramer) writes:
>> Why not just embrace that fact and pick the best five slogans from the
>> ones that have been offered? AND ROTATE THEM! :)
>
> Or better yet, let's implement a markov chain algorithm to
> periodically come up with new slogans based on the frequency of
> occurrence of various words in this slogan debate!

[Chris rummages around his ~/Lisp directory...  Yup, "parse-poetry.lisp"
is still kicking around...]

I've got one of those...  Some years ago, my little program won a rather
geeky "poetry generation" contest.  I grabbed a corpus of sample poetry
by one of those crazy "tax protestors," and the program would nicely
generate poetry looking very much like this one guy's output.

Give me 50 slogans, and the little program should be able to do the same
:-).
--
select 'cbbrowne' || '@' || 'gmail.com';
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/nonrdbms.html
"The only ``intuitive'' interface is the nipple. After that, it's all
learned."  -- Bruce Ediger, bediger@teal.csn.org on X interfaces.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Emanuel Calvo Franco
Дата:
2010/1/27 Scott Bailey <artacus@comcast.net>:
> Gabriele Bartolini wrote:
>>
>> I am reporting this suggestion:
>>
>> PostgreSQL: Your SQL
>>
>> or
>>
>> PostgreSQL: YourSQL
>>
>> (Don't blame me, I am just reporting)
>
> *shivers* definitely not.
>
> But perhaps
> PostgreSQL: Even better with bacon!
>

Vegan's may feel discarded. :P

What about:

Use Postgres, be open and leave everything else!

The Open Stable Solution.

--
              Emanuel Calvo Franco
             DBA at:  www.siu.edu.ar
        www.emanuelcalvofranco.com.ar
       Join: http://www.thevenusproject.com/

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Jeff Davis
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 12:00 -0500, Michael Alan Brewer wrote:
> PostgreSQL
> *Your* Open Source Database

Many suggestions in this thread use "Database" interchangeably with
"Database Management System". The latter is a little verbose, but
"Database System" should be concise enough for a slogan without losing
the meaning.

We need to remind people that a DBMS isn't just a place to stash data,
it's a complete system. This also differentiates us from the NoSQL
crowd, which seems much more confused about the distinction between a
database and the system that manages it (for example, the mixing of data
and schema is prevalent among those using KV stores or tree/graph
systems).

Regards,
    Jeff Davis


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Jeff Davis
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 12:01 +0100, Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
> I'm failing to find an English phrase (or single world) to express that
> PostgreSQL is offering way more than just data storage. Like a protocol,
> an extensible system (types, operator classes, indexes, user functions),
> a development system, etc.

"Database Management System" is one way of saying it, but that's a
little verbose for a slogan, so perhaps "Database System".

Regards,
    Jeff Davis


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Jeff Davis
Дата:
On Tue, 2010-01-26 at 17:10 +0000, Greg Stark wrote:
> Postgres: Liberate Your Data!

I like it. It may not even need the "!".

Also, it looks like it would translate well into many languages.

Regards,
    Jeff Davis


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Peter Eisentraut
Дата:
On ons, 2010-01-27 at 11:45 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
> Many suggestions in this thread use "Database" interchangeably with
> "Database Management System". The latter is a little verbose, but
> "Database System" should be concise enough for a slogan without losing
> the meaning.

You are completely right that "PostgreSQL" is not a "database", but it's
tempting to use it in a slogan because it's shorter and more
recognizable.  But "database system" is also not correct, and arguably
not as short and recognizable.  So you'd get the worst of both worlds
that way.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Greg Sabino Mullane"
Дата:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: RIPEMD160


>> Postgres: Liberate Your Data!
> I like it. It may not even need the "!".

Why would this be considered a good thing? Data wants to
be secure, not liberated.

- --
Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com
PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 201001271631
http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8
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=C/7p
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Jeff Davis
Дата:
On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 23:31 +0200, Peter Eisentraut wrote:
> You are completely right that "PostgreSQL" is not a "database", but it's
> tempting to use it in a slogan because it's shorter and more
> recognizable.  But "database system" is also not correct, and arguably
> not as short and recognizable.  So you'd get the worst of both worlds
> that way.

Technically, that's true. I was trying for some kind of compromise, but
I can see why you don't like it.

I would like to get away from calling PostgreSQL a "database" in any
official documentation, slogans, or anything else. In my opinion, our
slogan shouldn't add to the confusion, particularly when that same
confusion may be driving much of the NoSQL movement (and pulling people
away from systems like postgresql).

We don't have to use that language in the slogan at all necessarily --
for instance, Greg Stark suggested "Liberate Your Data!"

Regards,
    Jeff Davis


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Jeff Davis
Дата:
On Wed, 2010-01-27 at 21:32 +0000, Greg Sabino Mullane wrote:
> Why would this be considered a good thing? Data wants to
> be secure, not liberated.

"Secure" has two potential meanings when it comes to data:
  1. Hidden from those who shouldn't see it.
  2. Protected from loss or corruption.

Clearly, data should be secure in the second sense, but that does not
conflict in any way with "liberation". Do you really think people will
interpret "liberate" as "the system will post your data to a mailing
list"?

I imagine liberty as the flexibility to transform, transmit, integrate,
and interpret your data using as many tools and interfaces as you can
imagine. Our flexible type system and powerful PL support allow that,
and you can use as many ACLs as you want to secure it in the first
sense.

Regards,
    Jeff Davis


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Rob Napier
Дата:
How about something like:

Non-stop data integrity.

or

Non-stop data security.

or

Non-stop elephant enclosures?

... well, you get the idea ...

Non-stop used to be a registered trademark of TANDEM but I haven’t heard from them in years so I don’t expect there to be a conflict.

By the way, our corporate positioning statement is:

Liberating ideas.

This ties in with the freedom and flexibility that comes from rapid application development with once:radix. I think the ‘liberate’ positioning of PostgreSQL is a bit close to home for me.

Regards

Rob Napier

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Dawid Kuroczko
Дата:
It's late.  Like, really late.  Please forgive me. :)

PostgreSQL: It's ACID!

PostgreSQL: You are in control.

PostgreSQL: Do Elephants Dream of Generalized Inverted Indexes?

PostgreSQL: Time for Postgres.

PostgreSQL: Słoń nigdy nie zapomina / Ein Gedaechtnis wie ein Elefant
/ Avoir une mémoire d'éléphant [...]
(alternating elephantine memory related phrases in as many languages
as possible)

PostgresSQL: Avant-garde of Databases.

  Best regards,
      Dawid

PS: Oh, and I like the current slogan.  Personally I don't think any of
ones I've seen here is better than the current one...  They are nice
co-slogan, but the most advanced open source database just sums
it all so nicely...

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
On 1/27/10 5:07 PM, Dawid Kuroczko wrote:
> PostgreSQL: Do Elephants Dream of Generalized Inverted Indexes?

Hah!  +1

--Josh Berkus

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Ernesto Quiñones
Дата:
Sorry my bad english, but this is my idea

"PostgreSQL : the freedom power"

or

"PostgreSQL : just be free"

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Dimitri Fontaine
Дата:
Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:

> On ons, 2010-01-27 at 11:45 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
>> Many suggestions in this thread use "Database" interchangeably with
>> "Database Management System". The latter is a little verbose, but
>> "Database System" should be concise enough for a slogan without losing
>> the meaning.
>
> You are completely right that "PostgreSQL" is not a "database", but it's
> tempting to use it in a slogan because it's shorter and more
> recognizable.  But "database system" is also not correct, and arguably
> not as short and recognizable.  So you'd get the worst of both worlds
> that way.

  http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2010-01/msg00053.php

  The Professional Database Solution

It's missing something yet, but hopefully with some contribution we'd
get there.
--
dim

Each time I'm asked to give an overly brief comparision between MySQL
and PostgreSQL, I begin with the punch line: well, with MySQL you get
problems, with PostgreSQL, solutions.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 14:59 +0100, Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
> Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
>
> > On ons, 2010-01-27 at 11:45 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
> >> Many suggestions in this thread use "Database" interchangeably with
> >> "Database Management System". The latter is a little verbose, but
> >> "Database System" should be concise enough for a slogan without losing
> >> the meaning.
> >
> > You are completely right that "PostgreSQL" is not a "database", but it's
> > tempting to use it in a slogan because it's shorter and more
> > recognizable.  But "database system" is also not correct, and arguably
> > not as short and recognizable.  So you'd get the worst of both worlds
> > that way.
>
>   http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2010-01/msg00053.php
>
>   The Professional Database Solution
>
> It's missing something yet, but hopefully with some contribution we'd
> get there.'


The Professionals Database

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de> wrote:
> A lot of companies (and individuals, too) don't want to see their data
> liberated.

Well they don't necessarily want to see it liberated from their
control. But they certainly want their data to be free from
technological limitations which prevent them from exploiting it.
Obviously the slogan I proposed unseriously doesn't get to that
distinction but perhaps there's some way to exploit that feeling that
people have tons of data and its stuck in an impotent form because
they lack the tools to free it from these restrictions.

--
greg

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Bruce Momjian
Дата:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 14:59 +0100, Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
> > Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
> >
> > > On ons, 2010-01-27 at 11:45 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
> > >> Many suggestions in this thread use "Database" interchangeably with
> > >> "Database Management System". The latter is a little verbose, but
> > >> "Database System" should be concise enough for a slogan without losing
> > >> the meaning.
> > >
> > > You are completely right that "PostgreSQL" is not a "database", but it's
> > > tempting to use it in a slogan because it's shorter and more
> > > recognizable.  But "database system" is also not correct, and arguably
> > > not as short and recognizable.  So you'd get the worst of both worlds
> > > that way.
> >
> >   http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2010-01/msg00053.php
> >
> >   The Professional Database Solution
> >
> > It's missing something yet, but hopefully with some contribution we'd
> > get there.'
>
>
> The Professionals Database

The interesting issue with this suggestion is the fact that we are open
source is only _one_ of our strengths, and I think that will
increasingly become true:

    http://momjian.us/main/blogs/pgblog/2010.html#January_28_2010_2

--
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Marc G. Fournier"
Дата:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 14:59 +0100, Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
>> Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
>>
>>> On ons, 2010-01-27 at 11:45 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
>>>> Many suggestions in this thread use "Database" interchangeably with
>>>> "Database Management System". The latter is a little verbose, but
>>>> "Database System" should be concise enough for a slogan without losing
>>>> the meaning.
>>>
>>> You are completely right that "PostgreSQL" is not a "database", but it's
>>> tempting to use it in a slogan because it's shorter and more
>>> recognizable.  But "database system" is also not correct, and arguably
>>> not as short and recognizable.  So you'd get the worst of both worlds
>>> that way.
>>
>>   http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2010-01/msg00053.php
>>
>>   The Professional Database Solution
>>
>> It's missing something yet, but hopefully with some contribution we'd
>> get there.'
>
>
> The Professionals Database

I like the first one better .. yours implies a certain knowledge level
required to use ...

----
Marc G. Fournier                        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A.
scrappy@hub.org                                     http://www.hub.org

Yahoo:yscrappy    Skype: hub.org    ICQ:7615664    MSN:scrappy@hub.org

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Bruce Momjian
Дата:
Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>
> > On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 14:59 +0100, Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
> >> Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
> >>
> >>> On ons, 2010-01-27 at 11:45 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
> >>>> Many suggestions in this thread use "Database" interchangeably with
> >>>> "Database Management System". The latter is a little verbose, but
> >>>> "Database System" should be concise enough for a slogan without losing
> >>>> the meaning.
> >>>
> >>> You are completely right that "PostgreSQL" is not a "database", but it's
> >>> tempting to use it in a slogan because it's shorter and more
> >>> recognizable.  But "database system" is also not correct, and arguably
> >>> not as short and recognizable.  So you'd get the worst of both worlds
> >>> that way.
> >>
> >>   http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2010-01/msg00053.php
> >>
> >>   The Professional Database Solution
> >>
> >> It's missing something yet, but hopefully with some contribution we'd
> >> get there.'
> >
> >
> > The Professionals Database
>
> I like the first one better .. yours implies a certain knowledge level
> required to use ...

Yea, I like "The Professional Database Solution" too.

--
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Magnus Hagander
Дата:
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 18:34, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>
>> > On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 14:59 +0100, Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
>> >> Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
>> >>
>> >>> On ons, 2010-01-27 at 11:45 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
>> >>>> Many suggestions in this thread use "Database" interchangeably with
>> >>>> "Database Management System". The latter is a little verbose, but
>> >>>> "Database System" should be concise enough for a slogan without losing
>> >>>> the meaning.
>> >>>
>> >>> You are completely right that "PostgreSQL" is not a "database", but it's
>> >>> tempting to use it in a slogan because it's shorter and more
>> >>> recognizable.  But "database system" is also not correct, and arguably
>> >>> not as short and recognizable.  So you'd get the worst of both worlds
>> >>> that way.
>> >>
>> >>   http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2010-01/msg00053.php
>> >>
>> >>   The Professional Database Solution
>> >>
>> >> It's missing something yet, but hopefully with some contribution we'd
>> >> get there.'
>> >
>> >
>> > The Professionals Database
>>
>> I like the first one better .. yours implies a certain knowledge level
>> required to use ...
>
> Yea, I like "The Professional Database Solution" too.

One of the original reasons put forward for us needing to change this
is that other opensource databases are also advanced, and may not like
us calling ourselves the most advanced one.

What do you think they'll say if we differentiate ourselves by saying
we're the professional one - implicating they're not....

--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: http://www.hagander.net/
 Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Brendan Jurd
Дата:
PostgreSQL: The Obvious Choice
PostgreSQL: What the Hell Else Would You Use?

Or, to boil the sentiment right down:

PostgreSQL: Duh

Seriously though, I do think "Liberate Your Data", while reflecting an
admirable ideal would probably strike terror into the hearts of a lot
of suits.

On 29 January 2010 04:34, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
> Yea, I like "The Professional Database Solution" too.

That one's not bad but I'm not sure it's overwhelmingly better than
the existing slogan.

Cheers,
BJ

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Hywel Mallett
Дата:
Loads of suggestions:

PostgreSQL: It's really quite good
PostgreSQL: Possibly the only database with a replication solution
named after a type of goat.
PostgreSQL: We won't be bought out
PostgreSQL: Free forever
PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Standby
Postgres: Who stole my QL?


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Jeff Davis
Дата:
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 18:59 +0100, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> One of the original reasons put forward for us needing to change this
> is that other opensource databases are also advanced, and may not like
> us calling ourselves the most advanced one.
>
> What do you think they'll say if we differentiate ourselves by saying
> we're the professional one - implicating they're not....

Right now, our slogan compares us directly to other open source database
systems, and that's nearly a direct shot at MySQL. If we compare
ourselves to all database systems, it's not nearly as bad.

Regards,
    Jeff Davis


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
> Postgres: Who stole my QL?

I burst out laughing at this one.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Devrim GÜNDÜZ
Дата:
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 18:08 +0000, Hywel Mallett wrote:
> Postgres: Who stole my QL?

:-)
--
Devrim GÜNDÜZ, RHCE
Command Prompt - http://www.CommandPrompt.com
devrim~gunduz.org, devrim~PostgreSQL.org, devrim.gunduz~linux.org.tr
http://www.gunduz.org  Twitter: http://twitter.com/devrimgunduz

Вложения

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Diogo Biazus
Дата:
On 28/01/10 16:08, Jeff Davis wrote:
> On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 18:59 +0100, Magnus Hagander wrote:
>
>> One of the original reasons put forward for us needing to change this
>> is that other opensource databases are also advanced, and may not like
>> us calling ourselves the most advanced one.
>>
>> What do you think they'll say if we differentiate ourselves by saying
>> we're the professional one - implicating they're not....
>>
> Right now, our slogan compares us directly to other open source database
> systems, and that's nearly a direct shot at MySQL. If we compare
> ourselves to all database systems, it's not nearly as bad.
>
> Regards,
>     Jeff Davis
>
I like the old mozilla approach of "Reclaim your inbox" as a thunderbird
slogan.
I think that we could use something similar like:
PostgreSQL: Reclaim your database.
PostgreSQL: Regain control of your data.
PostgreSQL: Take your data wherever you want to go.

I think it synthesizes the notion of being in control of data and having
a flexible development plataform, something that was previously
mentioned in this thread.

--
Diogo Biazus
diogob@gmail.com
http://www.softa.com.br
http://www.postgresql.org.br


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Joshua Tolley
Дата:
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 04:49:23PM +0000, Greg Stark wrote:
> On Wed, Jan 27, 2010 at 9:08 AM, Florian Weimer <fweimer@bfk.de> wrote:
> > A lot of companies (and individuals, too) don't want to see their data
> > liberated.
>
> Well they don't necessarily want to see it liberated from their
> control. But they certainly want their data to be free from
> technological limitations which prevent them from exploiting it.
> Obviously the slogan I proposed unseriously doesn't get to that
> distinction but perhaps there's some way to exploit that feeling that
> people have tons of data and its stuck in an impotent form because
> they lack the tools to free it from these restrictions.

Perhaps we should say "Your data unfettered"... but I imagine some of the
community might have feelings about that...

- Josh / eggyknap

Вложения

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Andrej
Дата:
2010/1/29 Diogo Biazus <diogob@gmail.com>:

> PostgreSQL: Reclaim your database.
> PostgreSQL: Regain control of your data.
> PostgreSQL: Take your data wherever you want to go.

PostgreSQL - because your data is worth it
PostgreSQL - your data deserves it


Cheers,
Andrej

--
Please don't top post, and don't use HTML e-Mail :}  Make your quotes concise.

http://www.american.edu/econ/notes/htmlmail.htm

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Joe Conway
Дата:
On 01/28/2010 12:20 PM, Joshua Tolley wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 04:49:23PM +0000, Greg Stark wrote:
>> Well they don't necessarily want to see it liberated from their
>> control. But they certainly want their data to be free from
>> technological limitations which prevent them from exploiting it.
>> Obviously the slogan I proposed unseriously doesn't get to that
>> distinction but perhaps there's some way to exploit that feeling that
>> people have tons of data and its stuck in an impotent form because
>> they lack the tools to free it from these restrictions.
>
> Perhaps we should say "Your data unfettered"... but I imagine some of the

Maybe:

PostgreSQL: It Simply Works

Joe


Вложения

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Marc G. Fournier"
Дата:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Magnus Hagander wrote:

> One of the original reasons put forward for us needing to change this is
> that other opensource databases are also advanced, and may not like us
> calling ourselves the most advanced one.
>
> What do you think they'll say if we differentiate ourselves by saying
> we're the professional one - implicating they're not....

Why do we care?

----
Marc G. Fournier                        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A.
scrappy@hub.org                                     http://www.hub.org

Yahoo:yscrappy    Skype: hub.org    ICQ:7615664    MSN:scrappy@hub.org

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Magnus Hagander
Дата:
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 22:41, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Magnus Hagander wrote:
>
>> One of the original reasons put forward for us needing to change this is
>> that other opensource databases are also advanced, and may not like us
>> calling ourselves the most advanced one.
>>
>> What do you think they'll say if we differentiate ourselves by saying
>> we're the professional one - implicating they're not....
>
> Why do we care?

If we don't, then that's not a reason to change. It can't both be a
reason to change, and then not a reason to change...

(FWIW, I think it's not a reason to change away from what we have now)


--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: http://www.hagander.net/
 Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Marc G. Fournier"
Дата:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Magnus Hagander wrote:

> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 22:41, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Magnus Hagander wrote:
>>
>>> One of the original reasons put forward for us needing to change this is
>>> that other opensource databases are also advanced, and may not like us
>>> calling ourselves the most advanced one.
>>>
>>> What do you think they'll say if we differentiate ourselves by saying
>>> we're the professional one - implicating they're not....
>>
>> Why do we care?
>
> If we don't, then that's not a reason to change. It can't both be a
> reason to change, and then not a reason to change...
>
> (FWIW, I think it's not a reason to change away from what we have now)

I didn't realize that it was the original reason to change, but if it is,
I think its a pretty lame reason ... I thought we were just looking for
something new to 'spice things up' a bit ...

----
Marc G. Fournier                        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A.
scrappy@hub.org                                     http://www.hub.org

Yahoo:yscrappy    Skype: hub.org    ICQ:7615664    MSN:scrappy@hub.org

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 17:53 -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Magnus Hagander wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 22:41, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> >>
> >>> One of the original reasons put forward for us needing to change this is
> >>> that other opensource databases are also advanced, and may not like us
> >>> calling ourselves the most advanced one.
> >>>
> >>> What do you think they'll say if we differentiate ourselves by saying
> >>> we're the professional one - implicating they're not....
> >>
> >> Why do we care?
> >
> > If we don't, then that's not a reason to change. It can't both be a
> > reason to change, and then not a reason to change...
> >
> > (FWIW, I think it's not a reason to change away from what we have now)
>
> I didn't realize that it was the original reason to change, but if it is,
> I think its a pretty lame reason ... I thought we were just looking for
> something new to 'spice things up' a bit ...

Our slogan represents our impression to others. Personally I have no
problem telling everyone that I use the Professionals database (or some
such thing). I don't care that it implies that other databases may not
be.

Others in our community (and I am not saying they are wrong) feel we
should get along.

Both perspectives are valid, it just depends on how we want to get
there. I am more aggressive than most.

Joshua D. Drake


--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Marc G. Fournier"
Дата:
On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Joshua D. Drake wrote:

> Our slogan represents our impression to others. Personally I have no
> problem telling everyone that I use the Professionals database (or some
> such thing). I don't care that it implies that other databases may not
> be.

+1

> Others in our community (and I am not saying they are wrong) feel we
> should get along.

-1

> Both perspectives are valid, it just depends on how we want to get
> there. I am more aggressive than most.

+1

+1 -1 +1 == +1




----
Marc G. Fournier                        Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A.
scrappy@hub.org                                     http://www.hub.org

Yahoo:yscrappy    Skype: hub.org    ICQ:7615664    MSN:scrappy@hub.org

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Richard Broersma
Дата:
On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 1:53 PM, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:

>> If we don't, then that's not a reason to change. It can't both be a
>> reason to change, and then not a reason to change...
>>
>> (FWIW, I think it's not a reason to change away from what we have now)
>
> I didn't realize that it was the original reason to change, but if it is, I
> think its a pretty lame reason ... I thought we were just looking for
> something new to 'spice things up' a bit ...

The other reason to remove the work 'advanced' was to connotation with
'complicated'.  Which is suggested is a turn-off more some of the
emerging development trends.


--
Regards,
Richard Broersma Jr.

Visit the Los Angeles PostgreSQL Users Group (LAPUG)
http://pugs.postgresql.org/lapug

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Greg Smith
Дата:
Joshua Tolley wrote:
> Perhaps we should say "Your data unfettered"... but I imagine some of the
> community might have feelings about that...
>

Isn't there already too much PostgreSQL data that's David Fettered for
that to be true?

--
Greg Smith    2ndQuadrant   Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
greg@2ndQuadrant.com  www.2ndQuadrant.com


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Rodger Donaldson"
Дата:
On Fri, January 29, 2010 08:30, Diogo Biazus wrote:
> I like the old mozilla approach of "Reclaim your inbox" as a thunderbird
> slogan.
> I think that we could use something similar like:
> PostgreSQL: Reclaim your database.
> PostgreSQL: Regain control of your data.
> PostgreSQL: Take your data wherever you want to go.
>
> I think it synthesizes the notion of being in control of data and having
> a flexible development plataform, something that was previously
> mentioned in this thread.

This seems a particularly good angle, given that I can't be the only
person looking at Sunacle and being concerned that I don't want my choice
of database to be used as leverage to dictate my choice of server, SAN,
operating system, and app server.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 14:59 +0100, Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
> Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
>
> > On ons, 2010-01-27 at 11:45 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
> >> Many suggestions in this thread use "Database" interchangeably with
> >> "Database Management System". The latter is a little verbose, but
> >> "Database System" should be concise enough for a slogan without losing
> >> the meaning.
> >
> > You are completely right that "PostgreSQL" is not a "database", but it's
> > tempting to use it in a slogan because it's shorter and more
> > recognizable.  But "database system" is also not correct, and arguably
> > not as short and recognizable.  So you'd get the worst of both worlds
> > that way.
>
>   http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2010-01/msg00053.php
>
>   The Professional Database Solution
>
> It's missing something yet, but hopefully with some contribution we'd
> get there.'


The Professionals Database

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Alvaro Herrera
Дата:
Hywel Mallett wrote:

> PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Standby

Wasn't there a thread suggesting that "hot standby" was the wrong term?
I think the slogan should be

    "PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Slaves"

--
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Andrej
Дата:
2010/1/29 Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>:
> Wasn't there a thread suggesting that "hot standby" was the wrong term?
> I think the slogan should be
>
>        "PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Slaves"

Now *that* raises all sorts of weird connotations I'm afraid :}



Cheers,
Andrej
--
Please don't top post, and don't use HTML e-Mail :}  Make your quotes concise.

http://www.american.edu/econ/notes/htmlmail.htm

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 00:34 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Hywel Mallett wrote:
>
> > PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Standby
>
> Wasn't there a thread suggesting that "hot standby" was the wrong term?
> I think the slogan should be
>
>     "PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Slaves"

Uh, no.

Joshua D. Drake


>
> --
> Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
> PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
>


--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Alvaro Herrera
Дата:
Andrej escribió:
> 2010/1/29 Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>:
> > Wasn't there a thread suggesting that "hot standby" was the wrong term?
> > I think the slogan should be
> >
> >        "PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Slaves"
>
> Now *that* raises all sorts of weird connotations I'm afraid :}

Well, that was kind of *the point* :-D  (Yes, it was a joke.  Perhaps I
didn't take this thread with all the seriousness it merits.)
BTW sorry if I offended sensibilities.

--
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 17:53 -0400, Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Magnus Hagander wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 22:41, Marc G. Fournier <scrappy@hub.org> wrote:
> >> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Magnus Hagander wrote:
> >>
> >>> One of the original reasons put forward for us needing to change this is
> >>> that other opensource databases are also advanced, and may not like us
> >>> calling ourselves the most advanced one.
> >>>
> >>> What do you think they'll say if we differentiate ourselves by saying
> >>> we're the professional one - implicating they're not....
> >>
> >> Why do we care?
> >
> > If we don't, then that's not a reason to change. It can't both be a
> > reason to change, and then not a reason to change...
> >
> > (FWIW, I think it's not a reason to change away from what we have now)
>
> I didn't realize that it was the original reason to change, but if it is,
> I think its a pretty lame reason ... I thought we were just looking for
> something new to 'spice things up' a bit ...

Our slogan represents our impression to others. Personally I have no
problem telling everyone that I use the Professionals database (or some
such thing). I don't care that it implies that other databases may not
be.

Others in our community (and I am not saying they are wrong) feel we
should get along.

Both perspectives are valid, it just depends on how we want to get
there. I am more aggressive than most.

Joshua D. Drake


--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 00:34 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Hywel Mallett wrote:
>
> > PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Standby
>
> Wasn't there a thread suggesting that "hot standby" was the wrong term?
> I think the slogan should be
>
>     "PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Slaves"

Uh, no.

Joshua D. Drake


>
> --
> Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
> PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
>


--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Cédric Villemain
Дата:
2010/1/28 Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net>:
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 18:34, Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us> wrote:
>> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
>>> On Thu, 28 Jan 2010, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>>
>>> > On Thu, 2010-01-28 at 14:59 +0100, Dimitri Fontaine wrote:
>>> >> Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net> writes:
>>> >>
>>> >>> On ons, 2010-01-27 at 11:45 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
>>> >>>> Many suggestions in this thread use "Database" interchangeably with
>>> >>>> "Database Management System". The latter is a little verbose, but
>>> >>>> "Database System" should be concise enough for a slogan without losing
>>> >>>> the meaning.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> You are completely right that "PostgreSQL" is not a "database", but it's
>>> >>> tempting to use it in a slogan because it's shorter and more
>>> >>> recognizable.  But "database system" is also not correct, and arguably
>>> >>> not as short and recognizable.  So you'd get the worst of both worlds
>>> >>> that way.
>>> >>
>>> >>   http://archives.postgresql.org/pgsql-advocacy/2010-01/msg00053.php
>>> >>
>>> >>   The Professional Database Solution
>>> >>
>>> >> It's missing something yet, but hopefully with some contribution we'd
>>> >> get there.'
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > The Professionals Database
>>>
>>> I like the first one better .. yours implies a certain knowledge level
>>> required to use ...
>>
>> Yea, I like "The Professional Database Solution" too.
>
> One of the original reasons put forward for us needing to change this
> is that other opensource databases are also advanced, and may not like
> us calling ourselves the most advanced one.
>
> What do you think they'll say if we differentiate ourselves by saying
> we're the professional one - implicating they're not....

Postgres
SQL Database

:-D

>
> --
>  Magnus Hagander
>  Me: http://www.hagander.net/
>  Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy
>



--
Cédric Villemain

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Thom Brown
Дата:
So we have:

The Database for Restful Nights    Adrian Klaver
The Elephant Never Forgets    Adrian Klaver
Stability,Extendability,Community    Adrian Klaver
Now with Hot Slaves    Alvaro Herrera
Because your data is worth it    Andrej
Your data deserves it    Andrej
The Obvious Choice    Brendan Jurd
What the Hell Else Would You Use?    Brendan Jurd
SQL Database    Cédric Villemain
The Open Database    Dawid Kuroczko
Feel Free    Dawid Kuroczko
Your Data is Important    Dawid Kuroczko
Meet the Future    Dawid Kuroczko
It's ACID!    Dawid Kuroczko
You are in control    Dawid Kuroczko
Do Elephants Dream of Generalized Inverted Indexes?    Dawid Kuroczko
Time for Postgres    Dawid Kuroczko
Avant-garde of Databases    Dawid Kuroczko
The Professional Database Solution    Dimitri Fontaine
The Professional Database Solution    Dimitri Fontaine
Reclaim your database    Diogo Biazus
Regain control of your data    Diogo Biazus
Take your data wherever you want to go    Diogo Biazus
The Open Stable Solution    Emanuel Calvo Franco
Be open and leave everything else!    Emanuel Calvo Franco
The Open Source Elephant Memory    Erik Rijkers
The freedom power    Ernesto Quiñones
Just be free    Ernesto Quiñones
Open-Source Database    Gabriele Bartolini
Your SQL    Gabriele Bartolini
Open-Source Database, Open-Ended Possibilities    Greg Smith
Liberate Your Data!    Greg Stark
It's really quite good    Hywel Mallett
Possibly the only database with a replication solution named after a type of goat.    Hywel Mallett
We won't be bought out    Hywel Mallett
Free forever    Hywel Mallett
Now with Hot Standby    Hywel Mallett
Powerful Freedom    Joe Conway
It Simply Works    Joe Conway
The world's open source database    Joshua D. Drake
The Open Source Database    Joshua D. Drake
The Professionals Database    Joshua D. Drake
Security, Power, and High Performance    Joshua Kramer
Yours Open Source Database    Michael Alan Brewer
Start here. Get there.    Mike Ellsworth
If your Data is Important    Mike Ellsworth
Open Source Power and Reliability    Oliver Kohll
Power with Integrity    Oliver Kohll
It just works    Rafael Martinez
Works for you    Rafael Martinez
Will not let you down    Rafael Martinez
Looks after your data    Rafael Martinez
Your SQL database    Rafael Martinez
Your next database    Rafael Martinez
The most reliable open source database    Raymond O'Donnell
The 'Open' Open Source Database    Richard Broersma
Non-stop data integrity    Rob Napier
Non-stop data security    Rob Napier
Your Data: Any time, Any Place.    Rodger Donaldson
Enjoy your database again    Scott Bailey
The database you'll love    Scott Bailey
Setting the standard for following the standard    Scott Bailey

Personally, I still don't prefer any of these slogans over the existing one.

Thom

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Dave Page
Дата:
On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Thom Brown <thombrown@gmail.com> wrote:
> So we have:
>
...
> Personally, I still don't prefer any of these slogans over the existing one.

Nor I. Except possibly:

> What the Hell Else Would You Use?    Brendan Jurd

:-p

--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Bruce Momjian
Дата:
Wow, great list.  I had already created a trimmed-down, categorized list
on my blog:

    http://momjian.us/main/blogs/pgblog/2010.html#January_29_2010

If we want to choose a couple to cycle through, we can pick the best
from each category.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thom Brown wrote:
> So we have:
>
> The Database for Restful Nights    Adrian Klaver
> The Elephant Never Forgets    Adrian Klaver
> Stability,Extendability,Community    Adrian Klaver
> Now with Hot Slaves    Alvaro Herrera
> Because your data is worth it    Andrej
> Your data deserves it    Andrej
> The Obvious Choice    Brendan Jurd
> What the Hell Else Would You Use?    Brendan Jurd
> SQL Database    C?dric Villemain
> The Open Database    Dawid Kuroczko
> Feel Free    Dawid Kuroczko
> Your Data is Important    Dawid Kuroczko
> Meet the Future    Dawid Kuroczko
> It's ACID!    Dawid Kuroczko
> You are in control    Dawid Kuroczko
> Do Elephants Dream of Generalized Inverted Indexes?    Dawid Kuroczko
> Time for Postgres    Dawid Kuroczko
> Avant-garde of Databases    Dawid Kuroczko
> The Professional Database Solution    Dimitri Fontaine
> The Professional Database Solution    Dimitri Fontaine
> Reclaim your database    Diogo Biazus
> Regain control of your data    Diogo Biazus
> Take your data wherever you want to go    Diogo Biazus
> The Open Stable Solution    Emanuel Calvo Franco
> Be open and leave everything else!    Emanuel Calvo Franco
> The Open Source Elephant Memory    Erik Rijkers
> The freedom power    Ernesto Qui?ones
> Just be free    Ernesto Qui?ones
> Open-Source Database    Gabriele Bartolini
> Your SQL    Gabriele Bartolini
> Open-Source Database, Open-Ended Possibilities    Greg Smith
> Liberate Your Data!    Greg Stark
> It's really quite good    Hywel Mallett
> Possibly the only database with a replication solution named after a type of
> goat.    Hywel Mallett
> We won't be bought out    Hywel Mallett
> Free forever    Hywel Mallett
> Now with Hot Standby    Hywel Mallett
> Powerful Freedom    Joe Conway
> It Simply Works    Joe Conway
> The world's open source database    Joshua D. Drake
> The Open Source Database    Joshua D. Drake
> The Professionals Database    Joshua D. Drake
> Security, Power, and High Performance    Joshua Kramer
> Yours Open Source Database    Michael Alan Brewer
> Start here. Get there.    Mike Ellsworth
> If your Data is Important    Mike Ellsworth
> Open Source Power and Reliability    Oliver Kohll
> Power with Integrity    Oliver Kohll
> It just works    Rafael Martinez
> Works for you    Rafael Martinez
> Will not let you down    Rafael Martinez
> Looks after your data    Rafael Martinez
> Your SQL database    Rafael Martinez
> Your next database    Rafael Martinez
> The most reliable open source database    Raymond O'Donnell
> The 'Open' Open Source Database    Richard Broersma
> Non-stop data integrity    Rob Napier
> Non-stop data security    Rob Napier
> Your Data: Any time, Any Place.    Rodger Donaldson
> Enjoy your database again    Scott Bailey
> The database you'll love    Scott Bailey
> Setting the standard for following the standard    Scott Bailey
>
> Personally, I still don't prefer any of these slogans over the existing one.
>
> Thom

--
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
I like:

> The Elephant Never Forgets    Adrian Klaver



--
greg

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Petr Jelinek
Дата:
Ernesto Quiñones napsal(a):
> Sorry my bad english, but this is my idea
>
> "PostgreSQL : the freedom power"
>

I'd like this if it was written as "PostgreSQL: The power of freedom"

Anyway I might just as well try some of my own:
PostgreSQL: Home for your data
PostgreSQL: Keeping your data safe

And since people who would read the slogan usually already know
PostgreSQL is a database, maybe something little different:
PostgreSQL: Welcome to the comunity

--
Regards
Petr Jelinek (PJMODOS)


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Pavel Stehule
Дата:
2010/1/29 Petr Jelinek <pjmodos@pjmodos.net>:
> Ernesto Quiñones napsal(a):
>>
>> Sorry my bad english, but this is my idea
>>
>> "PostgreSQL : the freedom power"

+1

>>
>
> I'd like this if it was written as "PostgreSQL: The power of freedom"
>
> Anyway I might just as well try some of my own:
> PostgreSQL: Home for your data
> PostgreSQL: Keeping your data safe
>
> And since people who would read the slogan usually already know PostgreSQL
> is a database, maybe something little different:
> PostgreSQL: Welcome to the comunity
>

+1

Pavel

> --
> Regards
> Petr Jelinek (PJMODOS)
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy
>

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Robert Morgan
Дата:
PostgreSQL: Powering The Planet

PostgreSQL: Stable, Powerful, Open

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Alexey Klyukin
Дата:
On Jan 29, 2010, at 2:25 PM, Thom Brown wrote:

> So we have:
>
> ....
> Setting the standard for following the standard    Scott Bailey
>
> Personally, I still don't prefer any of these slogans over the existing one.
>

What about extending the existing one:
The world's most advanced open source database. Now with replication.

It's compatible with the existing slogan and emphasizes one of the major new features of 9.0

--
Alexey Klyukin                    http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Scott Bailey
Дата:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 00:34 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
>> Hywel Mallett wrote:
>>
>>> PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Standby
>> Wasn't there a thread suggesting that "hot standby" was the wrong term?
>> I think the slogan should be
>>
>>     "PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Slaves"
>
> Uh, no.
>
> Joshua D. Drake
>

LOL. Alvaro, that's the funniest one yet.

Ah, come on Joshua. Just think how packed your booth will be at OSCON.
We have some babes in leather handcuffed to a pole... and the pens with
the girls that strip when you turn them upside down. Ok, probably not.

Scott

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Thom Brown
Дата:
On 29 January 2010 17:16, Scott Bailey <artacus@comcast.net> wrote:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 00:34 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
Hywel Mallett wrote:

PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Standby
Wasn't there a thread suggesting that "hot standby" was the wrong term?
I think the slogan should be

       "PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Slaves"

Uh, no.

Joshua D. Drake


LOL. Alvaro, that's the funniest one yet.

Ah, come on Joshua. Just think how packed your booth will be at OSCON. We have some babes in leather handcuffed to a pole... and the pens with the girls that strip when you turn them upside down. Ok, probably not.


Hey, cater for all sexualities!

Thom

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Greg Smith
Дата:
Greg Stark wrote:
> I like:
>
>
>> The Elephant Never Forgets    Adrian Klaver
>>
"Never Forgets" was the slogan for Elephant Memory Systems, a maker of
floppy disks during the early 80's:
http://home.comcast.net/~kevin_d_clark/ems/

One of the ads they used to run:
http://home.comcast.net/~kevin_d_clark/ems/ems-mag-ad-2-small.jpg could
almost be a PostgreSQL one if you just replace "ANSI" for "SQL Standard".

--
Greg Smith    2ndQuadrant   Baltimore, MD
PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
greg@2ndQuadrant.com  www.2ndQuadrant.com


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Adrian Klaver
Дата:
On 01/29/2010 09:26 AM, Greg Smith wrote:
> Greg Stark wrote:
>> I like:
>>
>>> The Elephant Never Forgets Adrian Klaver
> "Never Forgets" was the slogan for Elephant Memory Systems, a maker of
> floppy disks during the early 80's:
> http://home.comcast.net/~kevin_d_clark/ems/
>

My suggestion was not exactly original. It is the phrase that prompted
the use of an elephant as the project mascot. I suggested it as both a
slogan and an explanation of the mascot for those who are not familiar
with the reference.

> One of the ads they used to run:
> http://home.comcast.net/~kevin_d_clark/ems/ems-mag-ad-2-small.jpg could
> almost be a PostgreSQL one if you just replace "ANSI" for "SQL Standard".
>


--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.klaver@gmail.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Bruce Momjian
Дата:
Scott Bailey wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > On Fri, 2010-01-29 at 00:34 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> >> Hywel Mallett wrote:
> >>
> >>> PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Standby
> >> Wasn't there a thread suggesting that "hot standby" was the wrong term?
> >> I think the slogan should be
> >>
> >>     "PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Slaves"
> >
> > Uh, no.
> >
> > Joshua D. Drake
> >
>
> LOL. Alvaro, that's the funniest one yet.
>
> Ah, come on Joshua. Just think how packed your booth will be at OSCON.
> We have some babes in leather handcuffed to a pole... and the pens with
> the girls that strip when you turn them upside down. Ok, probably not.

Can I suggest this themed video?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkVzQ1dJ7I8

--
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Robert Morgan
Дата:
PostgreSQL: Join Us

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
On 1/28/10 7:53 PM, Alvaro Herrera wrote:
> Andrej escribió:
>> 2010/1/29 Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com>:
>>> Wasn't there a thread suggesting that "hot standby" was the wrong term?
>>> I think the slogan should be
>>>
>>>        "PostgreSQL: Now with Hot Slaves"
>> Now *that* raises all sorts of weird connotations I'm afraid :}
>
> Well, that was kind of *the point* :-D  (Yes, it was a joke.  Perhaps I
> didn't take this thread with all the seriousness it merits.)
> BTW sorry if I offended sensibilities.

Since this thread has been *so* serious up until now.

--Josh Berkus

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Greg Stark
Дата:


On Fri, Jan 29, 2010 at 5:26 PM, Greg Smith <greg@2ndquadrant.com> wrote:
Greg Stark wrote:
I like:

The Elephant Never Forgets    Adrian Klaver

"Never Forgets" was the slogan for Elephant Memory Systems, a maker of floppy disks during the early 80's:  http://home.comcast.net/~kevin_d_clark/ems/

 ICANHAZMUG?

?ui=2&view=att&th=1267ccb80816442b&attid=0.1&disp=attd&realattid=ii_1267ccb80816442b&zw

 
--
greg

Вложения

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"CN"
Дата:
Gabriele Bartolini wrote:

> I am reporting this suggestion:
>
> PostgreSQL: Your SQL
>
> or
>
> PostgreSQL: YourSQL
>
> (Don't blame me, I am just reporting)

I am reporting this suggestion, too:

YourSQL: The best substitute of mySQL, MS SQL Server, and Oracle

-------

Don't blame me! I am just reporting.

A friend of mine has been using PostgreSQL for 10 or so years. He feels
the brand name "PostgreSQL" might also be considered to be changed as
inspired by Gabriele and encouraged by Josh Berkus' viewpoint: "I'll
disagree with Rob that there's any issue with our logo, and the
branding on the name is too entrenched to change."

He is not a English speaker. He never pronounced "PostgreSQL" correctly.
Every time he mentioned the name "PostgreSQL" to people, their responses
are always "What? Please say again!" I understand my friend's
frustration considering he encounters this trouble when making long
distance phone calls. Every time he says "MySQL is only for database
amateurs" to people, those people immediately get his point by saying:
"Yeah! I remember that name. My 6-year-old kid, who uses mouse to play
games in Windowz, also pronounces mySQL correctly."

My friend firmly believes that mySQL's success in terms of market share
attributes only two facts:

(1) its good brand name, which is easy to pronounce and remember
(2) its early adoption of Windowz

What he can't understand is why such a technology-leading DBMS,
PostgreSQL, chooses to use the name so difficult to pronounce, to
remember, and so error prone to be typed in search engines' prompts. I
am frustrated, too, for failing to provide a good answer to my friend's
question.

CN Liou

--
http://www.fastmail.fm - Accessible with your email software
                          or over the web


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Rob Wultsch
Дата:
2010/1/29 Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>:
>> The Database for Restful Nights    Adrian Klaver
>> The Elephant Never Forgets    Adrian Klaver
>> Stability,Extendability,Community    Adrian Klaver
>> Now with Hot Slaves    Alvaro Herrera

I really like the suggestions by Adrian Klaver, particularly "The
Elephant Never Forgets".

In the spirit of Alvaro Herrera suggestion I would like to put forward:
PostgreSQL: Now with HOT, hot slaves... and TOAST!

--
Rob Wultsch
wultsch@gmail.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Zach Conrad
Дата:
PostgreSQL: Proven Reliability. Professional Extensibility. Open Community.

Zach Conrad

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Zach Conrad
Дата:
Or perhaps it should be:
PostgreSQL: Proven Reliability. Open Extensibility. Professional Community.

----- "Zach Conrad" <zach.conrad@digitecinc.com> wrote:

> PostgreSQL: Proven Reliability. Professional Extensibility. Open
> Community.
>
> Zach Conrad

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Bruce Momjian
Дата:
Zach Conrad wrote:
> Or perhaps it should be:
> PostgreSQL: Proven Reliability. Open Extensibility. Professional Community.

I just received an anonymous submission:

    Open and Free - The Only Way To Be

--
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Jean-Paul Argudo
Дата:
Hi there,

I resisted too long to this funny thread. Here's my contribution.

Some not-that-serious proposals :

PostgreSQL : Your databases belongs to ... you!
PostgreSQL : This one is free, unless you really don't want to.
PostgreSQL : The database under ACID
PostgreSQL : (Both the) worst name and the best database, ever.
PostgreSQL : If you care for you data only
PostgreSQL : Community driven database. Except gotchas.
PostgreSQL : Let others think it works because you're a good DBA
PostgreSQL : I swear it was working yesterday
PostgreSQL : No downtime, except when I do badly minded rm's
PostgreSQL : No need to benchmark it with others
PostgreSQL : We bring toasts

Ok. Let's do some more serious proposals

I like the idea where PostgreSQL fits every RDBMS needs:

PostgreSQL : One fits all. From small to world business companies.
PostgreSQL : Grows with your business
PostgreSQL : You'll try it for costs. You'll keep it for the rest.

... and the idea it is rock solid

PostgreSQL : Rock solid database
PostgreSQL : 24/7 database
PostgreSQL : Doesn't loose a single byte

... or the idea the community is the most important side of the project

PostgreSQL : When community meets business
PostgreSQL : Community works
PostgreSQL : The more brains, the better code
PostgreSQL : Community driven database
PostgreSQL : Every one's database.

Those are some cents of ideas.

I think lots of those proposal meets other ones. Thats a good point, we
share the same ideas on PostgreSQL.

Cheers,

--
Jean-Paul Argudo
www.PostgreSQLFr.org
www.Dalibo.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Jeff Davis
Дата:
On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 08:38 -0600, Zach Conrad wrote:
> Or perhaps it should be:
> PostgreSQL: Proven Reliability. Open Extensibility. Professional Community.

+1

    Jeff Davis


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 09:47 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 08:38 -0600, Zach Conrad wrote:
> > Or perhaps it should be:
> > PostgreSQL: Proven Reliability. Open Extensibility. Professional Community.
>
> +1
>

PostgreSQL: P.O.P.

:P

>     Jeff Davis
>
>


--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Peter Eisentraut
Дата:
On mån, 2010-01-25 at 11:30 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Given the above, I'd like to start this thread asking for suggestions
> for a new project slogan.  When we have 4-5 solid ideas, we can put it
> to a vote on a survey site somewhere.

Given that we have about 100 suggestions now and this mailing list
thread is surely not going to resolve the matter, I went ahead and
imported the suggestions so far into a voting system.  Perhaps this will
give us some idea about the direction people want to go.

Knock yourself out:
http://postgresql.uservoice.com/forums/39779-new-slogan


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
David Fetter
Дата:
On Mon, Feb 01, 2010 at 09:52:18AM -0800, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 09:47 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
> > On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 08:38 -0600, Zach Conrad wrote:
> > > Or perhaps it should be:
> > > PostgreSQL: Proven Reliability. Open Extensibility. Professional
> > > Community.
> >
> > +1
> >
>
> PostgreSQL: P.O.P.

You down with O.P.P.?

Cheers,
David.
--
David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com
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Remember to vote!
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Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 09:47 -0800, Jeff Davis wrote:
> On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 08:38 -0600, Zach Conrad wrote:
> > Or perhaps it should be:
> > PostgreSQL: Proven Reliability. Open Extensibility. Professional Community.
>
> +1
>

PostgreSQL: P.O.P.

:P

>     Jeff Davis
>
>


--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Dawid Kuroczko
Дата:
On Mon, Feb 1, 2010 at 17:14, Jean-Paul Argudo
<jean-paul@postgresqlfr.org> wrote:
> Hi there,
> I resisted too long to this funny thread. Here's my contribution.
> Some not-that-serious proposals :

We're not exactly there yet, but: :-D

  PotsgreSQL: The world's most advanced and most popular open source database.

  Best regards,
      Dawid

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Emanuel Calvo Franco
Дата:
2010/2/1 Jeff Davis <pgsql@j-davis.com>:
> On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 08:38 -0600, Zach Conrad wrote:
>> Or perhaps it should be:
>> PostgreSQL: Proven Reliability. Open Extensibility. Professional Community.
>

I think Community must be the key in the slogan.

What about:

Postgresql: The community behind the Database




--
              Emanuel Calvo Franco
             DBA at:  www.siu.edu.ar
        www.emanuelcalvofranco.com.ar
       Join: http://www.thevenusproject.com/

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Dave Page
Дата:
On 2/2/10, Emanuel Calvo Franco <postgres.arg@gmail.com> wrote:
> 2010/2/1 Jeff Davis <pgsql@j-davis.com>:
>> On Mon, 2010-02-01 at 08:38 -0600, Zach Conrad wrote:
>>> Or perhaps it should be:
>>> PostgreSQL: Proven Reliability. Open Extensibility. Professional
>>> Community.
>>
>
> I think Community must be the key in the slogan.
>
> What about:
>
> Postgresql: The community behind the Database
>
>

i doubt most business users care about the community.


--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Paul Wehr
Дата:
I think Zach is on the right track.  I was thinking, even simpler:

PostgreSQL: Reliable. Advanced. Open. Free.

Although "Open" could also be "Professional", "Compliant" (SQL 99),
"Adaptive", "Flexible".

Too bad there isn't a single word for
"you-don't-need-a-PO-and-a-dozen-forms-from-the-deniers-of-IT-and-6-months-to-install-and-use-it".

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Rob Napier
Дата:
IMHO

Even though I seem to have been an accidental catalyst for this discussion, I think it is time to offer some general comments about branding. I'll try to keep it short.

Branding 101:

'Corporate Identity' (the new hip term is 'Branding' but in my view it means basically the same thing) is what organisations DO in an attempt to establish HOW they want to be viewed  by their target market, the wider community, their competitors, legislators, etc. – their 'Corporate Image'.

There are several elements that can influence your Corporate Image: name, logo, colours, typography, quality of marketing (brochures, website, advertising, merchandising, etc.) and product, dress, bearing and individual behaviour of people in this and other forums.

The corporate identity programme aims to systematize these elements. But it all begins with understanding your marketing objectives and how your branding will support those objectives.

So firstly, we should codify our marketing objectives. Then, and only then, should we be talking about branding.

Some would say that the marketing objectives are understood and agreed to. I seriously question that. And I think it is reflected in the discussions on this forum. It is inevitable that such a large and diverse group will have different views. But there should always be a common direction. I don’t see that, beyond the fact that we all love PostgreSQL (the product, not the name!); we would like it to be recognised as one of the world’s best RDBMS applications – commercial and open source; we would like it to be accessible worldwide (with all the cultural, language and other issues that entails); and we would like it to be perceived as being accessible for everyone (advanced but easy to use.

What did I overlook?

I would never support ANY change to the Corporate Identity until I understood EXACTLY what the marketing objectives are. Right now, I think the tail is wagging the dog. Isn’t this how we ended up with a suspect name, a funny-looking icon that denotes big and slow to me and a wordy slogan that throws out the wrong message to some of our target market.


Regards

Rob Napier

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
On 2/2/10 3:42 PM, Rob Napier wrote:
> we would like it to be recognised as one of the world’s best RDBMS
> applications – commercial and open source; we would like it to be
> accessible worldwide (with all the cultural, language and other issues
> that entails); and we would like it to be perceived as being accessible
> for everyone (advanced but easy to use).

Hmmm.  Here's what I'd like people to think about us as a concept list:

* community-owned
* approachable
* hackable & extensible (the database you can customize)
* secure
* high-performance
* advanced features
* international
* standards-compliant

--Josh Berkus

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Rob Napier
Дата:
Josh

If that is the way you wish to be viewed, don't change a thing.

E.g. I mentioned the importance of language. 'Extensible' is good,
'hackable' has too many negative connotations.

Community-owned. Nice but it should be near the bottom of the list. It also
has negative connotations in the corporate sphere. Not just a bit hokey, it
also can suggest undisciplined, under funded, and a few other prejoratives
that come to mind.

BUT when linked to approachable: That can be a good thing. Mozilla is
community owned but they are particularly careful about the way their image
is developed.

AND international: That implies strength, stability and accessibility.

The rest of your list is about the product. The technology needs to be
presented in more marketing terms.

I hope this is making some sense.

On 3/2/10 10:48 AM, "Josh Berkus" <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:

> On 2/2/10 3:42 PM, Rob Napier wrote:
>> we would like it to be recognised as one of the world¹s best RDBMS
>> applications ­ commercial and open source; we would like it to be
>> accessible worldwide (with all the cultural, language and other issues
>> that entails); and we would like it to be perceived as being accessible
>> for everyone (advanced but easy to use).
>
> Hmmm.  Here's what I'd like people to think about us as a concept list:
>
> * community-owned
> * approachable
> * hackable & extensible (the database you can customize)
> * secure
> * high-performance
> * advanced features
> * international
> * standards-compliant
>
> --Josh Berkus
>


Regards

Rob Napier


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Nikolas Everett
Дата:
On Tue, Feb 2, 2010 at 6:42 PM, Rob Napier <rob@doitonce.net.au> wrote:
I don’t see that, beyond the fact that we all love PostgreSQL (the product, not the name!); we would like it to be recognised as one of the world’s best RDBMS applications – commercial and open source; we would like it to be accessible worldwide (with all the cultural, language and other issues that entails); and we would like it to be perceived as being accessible for everyone (advanced but easy to use.

I think what people think about PostgreSQL is a way to the objectives but I think the objective is:
To be the best database bar none.

This is why we're proud to be "The world's most advanced open source database."

From this object flow some principles.  I write we below in the royal sense because I don't contribute code or anything.  I just evangelize, quietly.
1.  We have a good idea how databases should work we are working to evolve PostgreSQL closer to that ideal.
2.  We want as many good contributions to the project as possible.

Breaking those points down again yields:
1.1.  We are not going to add cross db joins, index hints, etc.
1.2.  We are going to add X, Y, Z features.
2.1.  We want as many good contributors as possible.
2.1.1.  We want to be as popular and useful as possible for the kind of people who would contribute.
2.1.1.1.  We want to be as popular as possible because that would expose potential hackers to PosrgreSQL.
2.1.1.1.1.  We want people to think X, Y, Z when they think PostgreSQL.
....

I know thats all kind of semantic but it puts things into perspective.  For example a slogan that alienates hackers would probably not be good.  I can't really help with that though.

While I'm writing who normally choses the database in an organization or for a project?  Where I've been its always been one of the first senior developers.  After the choice your pretty much stuck with it.  The suits don't really care so long as it doesn't cost too much money and the license doesn't prevent them from doing what they want to do.  PostgreSQL is golden on both those counts.

Nik

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Rob Napier
Дата:
Brilliantly crafted Nik! You should be in marketing.

You’ve discussed product positioning, price and who are the decision makers.

This is exactly where I’d like to see this conversation go.

Just imagine: A coherent and comprehensive marketing strategy.

On 3/2/10 11:47 AM, "Nikolas Everett" <nik9000@gmail.com> wrote:

I think what people think about PostgreSQL is a way to the objectives but I think the objective is:
To be the best database bar none.

This is why we're proud to be "The world's most advanced open source database."

From this object flow some principles.  I write we below in the royal sense because I don't contribute code or anything.  I just evangelize, quietly.
1.  We have a good idea how databases should work we are working to evolve PostgreSQL closer to that ideal.
2.  We want as many good contributions to the project as possible.

Breaking those points down again yields:
1.1.  We are not going to add cross db joins, index hints, etc.
1.2.  We are going to add X, Y, Z features.
2.1.  We want as many good contributors as possible.
2.1.1.  We want to be as popular and useful as possible for the kind of people who would contribute.
2.1.1.1.  We want to be as popular as possible because that would expose potential hackers to PosrgreSQL.
2.1.1.1.1.  We want people to think X, Y, Z when they think PostgreSQL.
....

I know thats all kind of semantic but it puts things into perspective.  For example a slogan that alienates hackers would probably not be good.  I can't really help with that though.

While I'm writing who normally choses the database in an organization or for a project?  Where I've been its always been one of the first senior developers.  After the choice your pretty much stuck with it.  The suits don't really care so long as it doesn't cost too much money and the license doesn't prevent them from doing what they want to do.  PostgreSQL is golden on both those counts.

Nik




Regards

Rob Napier

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Adrian Klaver
Дата:
On Tuesday 02 February 2010 4:30:44 pm Rob Napier wrote:
> Josh
>
> If that is the way you wish to be viewed, don't change a thing.
>
> E.g. I mentioned the importance of language. 'Extensible' is good,
> 'hackable' has too many negative connotations.
>
> Community-owned. Nice but it should be near the bottom of the list. It also
> has negative connotations in the corporate sphere. Not just a bit hokey, it
> also can suggest undisciplined, under funded, and a few other prejoratives
> that come to mind.
>
> BUT when linked to approachable: That can be a good thing. Mozilla is
> community owned but they are particularly careful about the way their image
> is developed.
>
> AND international: That implies strength, stability and accessibility.
>
> The rest of your list is about the product. The technology needs to be
> presented in more marketing terms.

I guess it comes down to who we are 'selling' to. My sense is it is not the
ultimate user but the intermediary, in other words the techie. For instance, do
your customers for Once:radix participate in the Postgres community or do they
rely on you to do that? For them Postgres is at the bottom of stack that goes
Web browser --> Tomcat/Java --> Postgres. From what I have seen a lot of the
larger business use cases are in that situation. There is a middle layer of
personnel that deal with the app/db and then present it to the purchaser in a
manner they understand. The Postgres community should be reaching that middle
layer in manner they understand, technical points. The business marketing
should be left to those who appreciate it, the folks further up the food chain.

>
> I hope this is making some sense.
>

>
> Regards
>
> Rob Napier



--
Adrian Klaver
adrian.klaver@gmail.com

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Peter Eisentraut
Дата:
On ons, 2010-02-03 at 10:42 +1100, Rob Napier wrote:
> So firstly, we should codify our marketing objectives. Then, and only
> then, should we be talking about branding.

Well, ordinarily you would expect a commercial development organization
to function something like this:

             --> Branding ---> Sales
            /
Marketing --
            \
             --> Requirements engineering ---> Programming

But the PostgreSQL world operates more like this:

             -- FUD <--- Random users <........................
            /                                                 .
Advocacy <--                                                  .
            \                                                 .
             -- Release notes scramble <--- Random hacking <...

Which is why from a traditional marketing perspective, nothing we do
makes a lot of sense. ;-)



Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
David Fetter
Дата:
On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 11:30:44AM +1100, Rob Napier wrote:
> Josh
>
> If that is the way you wish to be viewed, don't change a thing.
>
> E.g. I mentioned the importance of language. 'Extensible' is good,
> 'hackable' has too many negative connotations.
>
> Community-owned. Nice but it should be near the bottom of the list.
> It also has negative connotations in the corporate sphere. Not just
> a bit hokey, it also can suggest undisciplined, under funded, and a
> few other prejoratives that come to mind.

No offense, Rob, but you're just plain mistaken on this one.  Linux is
community-owned, and it's precisely this that makes it attractive in
the corporate world.  They know that Linux can't be made useless by
some other corporation, get bought out, or go out of business.

> BUT when linked to approachable: That can be a good thing. Mozilla is
> community owned but they are particularly careful about the way their image
> is developed.
>
> AND international: That implies strength, stability and accessibility.
>
> The rest of your list is about the product. The technology needs to be
> presented in more marketing terms.
>
> I hope this is making some sense.

Most of it did :)

Cheers,
David.
>
> On 3/2/10 10:48 AM, "Josh Berkus" <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
>
> > On 2/2/10 3:42 PM, Rob Napier wrote:
> >> we would like it to be recognised as one of the world¹s best RDBMS
> >> applications ­ commercial and open source; we would like it to be
> >> accessible worldwide (with all the cultural, language and other issues
> >> that entails); and we would like it to be perceived as being accessible
> >> for everyone (advanced but easy to use).
> >
> > Hmmm.  Here's what I'd like people to think about us as a concept list:
> >
> > * community-owned
> > * approachable
> > * hackable & extensible (the database you can customize)
> > * secure
> > * high-performance
> > * advanced features
> > * international
> > * standards-compliant
> >
> > --Josh Berkus
> >
>
>
> Regards
>
> Rob Napier
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-advocacy mailing list (pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-advocacy

--
David Fetter <david@fetter.org> http://fetter.org/
Phone: +1 415 235 3778  AIM: dfetter666  Yahoo!: dfetter
Skype: davidfetter      XMPP: david.fetter@gmail.com
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Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Greg Stark
Дата:
On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 12:30 AM, Rob Napier <rob@doitonce.net.au> wrote:

> 'hackable' has too many negative connotations.
>
> Community-owned.  It also has negative connotations in the corporate sphere.

I think I don't like your friends.


--
greg

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 07:35 -0800, David Fetter wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 11:30:44AM +1100, Rob Napier wrote:
> > Josh
> >
> > If that is the way you wish to be viewed, don't change a thing.
> >
> > E.g. I mentioned the importance of language. 'Extensible' is good,
> > 'hackable' has too many negative connotations.
> >
> > Community-owned. Nice but it should be near the bottom of the list.
> > It also has negative connotations in the corporate sphere. Not just
> > a bit hokey, it also can suggest undisciplined, under funded, and a
> > few other prejoratives that come to mind.
>
> No offense, Rob, but you're just plain mistaken on this one.  Linux is
> community-owned, and it's precisely this that makes it attractive in
> the corporate world.  They know that Linux can't be made useless by
> some other corporation, get bought out, or go out of business.

No, community-owned is not what makes it attractive. Free and stable is.
The fact that the majority of work done on Linux is actually done by
corporate people (Redhat, IBM, Oracle) makes it even more attractive.

If you go to a major corporation and say... Dude use my community-owned
database, you will be shown the door. Which is exactly one of the more
precise reasons that MySQL was kicking our butt in low end installations
for so long. Because it was an open source "Product" not "Project"



Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Joshua Kramer
Дата:
>> Community-owned.  It also has negative connotations in the corporate sphere.
>
> I think I don't like your friends.

It would be interesting to do a survey of "suits" to see in what
percentage of companies this is the case.

I have spoken with upper management at more than one large company, all of
whom said (though not in so many words) that the primary reason they
(spend the tens-hundreds of K/year to) buy support is not because their
own folks lack expertise, but because they want a "neck to strangle" (i.e.
an entity on which to displace responsibility).

Almost invariably, such management is allergic (i.e. has violent reactions
to) the term 'community', and upon discovering the use of 'community'
software in their enterprises start looking for a support contract to buy
(i.e. CentOS -> RedHat, PostgreSQL -> EnterpriseDB) -OR- alternative
supported products that they already license (i.e. PostgreSQL ->
MS-SQL-Server).  Lower-level workers who want to integrate open source
products into their ecosystems have better luck when they suggest those
supported alternatives.

I wish I was just being silly with this dialogue, but this has been my
experience with corporate IT.

-JK

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Nikolas Everett
Дата:


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 1:03 PM, Joshua Kramer <josh@globalherald.net> wrote:
I have spoken with upper management at more than one large company, all of whom said (though not in so many words) that the primary reason they (spend the tens-hundreds of K/year to) buy support is not because their own folks lack expertise, but because they want a "neck to strangle" (i.e. an entity on which to displace responsibility).

Almost invariably, such management is allergic (i.e. has violent reactions to) the term 'community', and upon discovering the use of 'community' software in their enterprises start looking for a support contract to buy (i.e. CentOS -> RedHat, PostgreSQL -> EnterpriseDB) -OR- alternative supported products that they already license (i.e. PostgreSQL -> MS-SQL-Server).  Lower-level workers who want to integrate open source products into their ecosystems have better luck when they suggest those supported alternatives.


I've seen an interesting spin on this:  executives arguing they need a neck to ring if something goes wrong but knowing that the license won't let them but not admitting it because they want shareholders to feel better.  Even at that company we went with PostgreSQL.

I've also seen the opposite: an aversion to paying for anything thats so strong that you pretty much have to use open source or free as in beer tools.  I've seen this at companies ranging from 30,000 to 8 employees.

Getting back to that first company - we went with PostgreSQL even though we were an a semi-indemnity kick.  Why?  We'd been using it for a few years and it worked well.  We had lots of experience with it.  We'd already optimized for it.  Lastly it is free.

In this case it was all about momentum.  We got that momentum because we appealed to a senior developer early in the process of forming the company.  If that hadn't happened I wouldn't even be on this mailing list.

So my point is that your probably not going to win anyone over who is already using something else unless something drastic happens.  We should really be targeting those organizations that are just forming.  Executives may or may not come in later and want to do the whole PostgreSQL -> EnterpriseDB thing.  

You mention executive declaring a migration from PostgreSQL to MS-SQL.  Depending on the project that could either cost a couple man weeks or a couple man months.  Thats unlikely to be a good sell to an executive.  I've never seen one consider it.  On the other hand I haven't been working all that long and I don't tend to work for executives who won't listen to reason.

Has anyone mentioned Greenplum yet?  I'm thrilled about it because its made the "news" a few times which can only lead to more PostgreSQL exposure.  Suites aren't going to know or care, but it gives us more clout with those senior developers in forming companies.

Nik

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Joshua Kramer
Дата:
> In this case it was all about momentum. We got that momentum because we
.....
> You mention executive declaring a migration from PostgreSQL to MS-SQL.
> epending on the project that could either cost a couple man weeks or a

Actually, this process usually does not manifest itself as an order to
"Migrate from PG to MS".  Instead, it goes something like this.  Somebody
in the company sees an opportunity to increase efficiency or save money by
using some application that runs on only one or two database engines
(usually some combination of My or Postgres).  This person does a
cost/benefit analysis and presents the findings.  The suits say, "hey
that's great, we'll approve it if you can get it running on MS-SQL or
Oracle".  To be fair, there is value in only having one or two in-house
database engines (usually MS-SQL and Oracle), but after you get so many of
these cost-saving "could have done's" that value is eroded.

Having said that... if I remember correctly, somewhere xTuple claimed
having at least one Fortune 1000 company as a client.  xTuple (the ERP
system) is based on PostgreSQL, so there is definitely some Postgres
movement for mission-critical loads in Fortune land.

Best,
-JK


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Nikolas Everett
Дата:


On Wed, Feb 3, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Joshua Kramer <josh@globalherald.net> wrote:

In this case it was all about momentum. We got that momentum because we
.....
You mention executive declaring a migration from PostgreSQL to MS-SQL.
epending on the project that could either cost a couple man weeks or a

Actually, this process usually does not manifest itself as an order to "Migrate from PG to MS".  Instead, it goes something like this.  Somebody in the company sees an opportunity to increase efficiency or save money by using some application that runs on only one or two database engines (usually some combination of My or Postgres).  This person does a cost/benefit analysis and presents the findings.  The suits say, "hey that's great, we'll approve it if you can get it running on MS-SQL or Oracle".  To be fair, there is value in only having one or two in-house database engines (usually MS-SQL and Oracle), but after you get so many of these cost-saving "could have done's" that value is eroded.

Having said that... if I remember correctly, somewhere xTuple claimed having at least one Fortune 1000 company as a client.  xTuple (the ERP system) is based on PostgreSQL, so there is definitely some Postgres movement for mission-critical loads in Fortune land.

I am enlightened.

I assume you only mean Fortune 1000 vanilla PostgreSQL.  If you count extensions then we've probably got more than ten and less than one hundred of them.

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
> If you go to a major corporation and say... Dude use my community-owned
> database, you will be shown the door. Which is exactly one of the more
> precise reasons that MySQL was kicking our butt in low end installations
> for so long. Because it was an open source "Product" not "Project"

Er, no.  There's a tremendous tendency in this community to misattribute
MySQL's relative commercial success to some aspect of marketing
strategy.  This could not be further from the truth, and it's important
that people in this community realize that so that we don't waste our
energies in the wrong place.

MySQL became more widely adopted than PostgreSQL for 3 reasons:
1) it was "ready to use" in 1997 and we were not,
2) it adapted to and catered to web developers rather than demanding
that they learn things or change habits,
3) it focused on strategic features in a timely fashion, at least up
until 2004.

MySQL didn't even begin to have serious professional marketing until
2004, which was already the peak of MySQL open source adoption, and that
marketing was almost entirely focussed on converting OSS adoption to
commercial customers.

--Josh Berkus

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 07:35 -0800, David Fetter wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 03, 2010 at 11:30:44AM +1100, Rob Napier wrote:
> > Josh
> >
> > If that is the way you wish to be viewed, don't change a thing.
> >
> > E.g. I mentioned the importance of language. 'Extensible' is good,
> > 'hackable' has too many negative connotations.
> >
> > Community-owned. Nice but it should be near the bottom of the list.
> > It also has negative connotations in the corporate sphere. Not just
> > a bit hokey, it also can suggest undisciplined, under funded, and a
> > few other prejoratives that come to mind.
>
> No offense, Rob, but you're just plain mistaken on this one.  Linux is
> community-owned, and it's precisely this that makes it attractive in
> the corporate world.  They know that Linux can't be made useless by
> some other corporation, get bought out, or go out of business.

No, community-owned is not what makes it attractive. Free and stable is.
The fact that the majority of work done on Linux is actually done by
corporate people (Redhat, IBM, Oracle) makes it even more attractive.

If you go to a major corporation and say... Dude use my community-owned
database, you will be shown the door. Which is exactly one of the more
precise reasons that MySQL was kicking our butt in low end installations
for so long. Because it was an open source "Product" not "Project"



Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake



--
PostgreSQL.org Major Contributor
Command Prompt, Inc: http://www.commandprompt.com/ - 503.667.4564
Consulting, Training, Support, Custom Development, Engineering
Respect is earned, not gained through arbitrary and repetitive use or Mr. or Sir.


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
> Regarding the slogan, IMVHO it's deep into the don't care
> area; well behind the postgre-SQL vs postgres-QL debates.
> Though as much as people joke about the "now with easy
> hot slaves" one, it
>   (a) highlights new features where Postgres was lacking, and
>   (b) would get picked up by a lot of blogs and social sites, and
>   (c) would probably get more people to read the announcement
>       just to see what it's talking about.

It's certainly given me an idea for a t-shirt. ;-)

--Josh


Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Ron Mayer
Дата:
Josh Berkus wrote:
>> If you go to a major corporation and say... Dude use my community-owned
>> database, you will be shown the door. Which is exactly one of the more
>> precise reasons that MySQL was kicking our butt in low end installations
>> for so long. Because it was an open source "Product" not "Project"
>
> MySQL became more widely adopted than PostgreSQL for 3 reasons:
> 1) it was "ready to use" in 1997 and we were not,
> 2) it adapted to and catered to web developers rather than demanding
> that they learn things or change habits,
> 3) it focused on strategic features in a timely fashion, at least up
> until 2004.

I'm not sure I agree with either one of you.

From places I saw MySQL get wins, the reasons were:

  1. [in a dozen tiny accounts] - MySQL worked on Windows earlier,
     so Windows and mixed development shops liked it better.

  2. [in a couple large accounts] - MySQL had more impressive customer
     testimonials with Yahoo (2001), Sabre/Travelocity (2003),
     and Google AdWords(2005).   Yes, I know Postgres had users too,
     by they were much less visible in business press, etc.


Regarding the slogan, IMVHO it's deep into the don't care
area; well behind the postgre-SQL vs postgres-QL debates.
Though as much as people joke about the "now with easy
hot slaves" one, it
  (a) highlights new features where Postgres was lacking, and
  (b) would get picked up by a lot of blogs and social sites, and
  (c) would probably get more people to read the announcement
      just to see what it's talking about.






Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Magnus Hagander
Дата:
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 01:16, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
>
>> Regarding the slogan, IMVHO it's deep into the don't care
>> area; well behind the postgre-SQL vs postgres-QL debates.
>> Though as much as people joke about the "now with easy
>> hot slaves" one, it
>>   (a) highlights new features where Postgres was lacking, and
>>   (b) would get picked up by a lot of blogs and social sites, and
>>   (c) would probably get more people to read the announcement
>>       just to see what it's talking about.

(d) is instantly out of date once 9.1 is ready

That's not a project slogan, that's a release slogan.


> It's certainly given me an idea for a t-shirt. ;-)

Release slogans work better on t-shirts :-)

--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: http://www.hagander.net/
 Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/

Re: Wanted: new project slogan

От
Nikolas Everett
Дата:
I know this thread is long dead and this isn't a good slogan any way but:

PostgreSQL:  Put away childish things.

First: its horrible.
Second: It really only compares PostgreSQL and MySQL.

On the other hand - 
* Why do I need an index for each foreign key?  Oh!  Its because MySQL things I'm some kind of blithering idiot.  Of course I can't disable that behavior!  And how in the world did http://bugs.mysql.com/bug.php?id=21395 come about?
* SELECT post_id, count(*) FROM comment; works in MySQL.  It produces one row.  GROUP BY is for suckers.
* Non transactional tables are the default?!
* The connector is GPL!?

I only write this because I recently worked myself into a ten minute long rage and want to share.


On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 4:42 AM, Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote:
On Thu, Feb 4, 2010 at 01:16, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
>
>> Regarding the slogan, IMVHO it's deep into the don't care
>> area; well behind the postgre-SQL vs postgres-QL debates.
>> Though as much as people joke about the "now with easy
>> hot slaves" one, it
>>   (a) highlights new features where Postgres was lacking, and
>>   (b) would get picked up by a lot of blogs and social sites, and
>>   (c) would probably get more people to read the announcement
>>       just to see what it's talking about.

(d) is instantly out of date once 9.1 is ready

That's not a project slogan, that's a release slogan.


> It's certainly given me an idea for a t-shirt. ;-)

Release slogans work better on t-shirts :-)

--
 Magnus Hagander
 Me: http://www.hagander.net/
 Work: http://www.redpill-linpro.com/

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