Обсуждение: time for PgAdmin IV ?
Hi, Given the fact that it's such a pain to develop PgAdmin with wxWidgets, how about a GPLd library written in C++ and that offers the same base for Windows, Linux and Mac? I found by accident this link and is really amazing ! http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/ Please give it a try ... Yours truly, Marian
Marian POPESCU a ecrit le 20/12/2006 11:27: > Given the fact that it's such a pain to develop PgAdmin with wxWidgets, how > about a GPLd library written in C++ and that offers the same base for > Windows, Linux and Mac? > I don't understand why you think it is painful to develop with wxWidgets. Can you tell us ? > I found by accident this link and is really amazing ! > > http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/ > And can you explain us why Juce would be better than wxWidgets ? Regards. -- Guillaume.
Marian POPESCU wrote: > Hi, > > Given the fact that it's such a pain to develop PgAdmin with wxWidgets, how > about a GPLd library written in C++ and that offers the same base for > Windows, Linux and Mac? > > I found by accident this link and is really amazing ! > > http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/ > > Please give it a try ... Well the first problem is that it's GPL, which I will never use for an app I release. The first question though would be why do you think it's a pain to develop with wxWidgets, and how would Juce solve those issues? The second question would be something along the lines of 'where would the thousands of hours required to rewrite it all again come from?' Regards, Dave.
Guillaume Lelarge wrote: Well, for me it seems that there were some serious efforts to overcome bugs in wxWidgets; today there is no PgAdmin3 1.6.1 for Fedora available: wxW 2.8.x was not released ... On the other hand, this library allows you to develop and deliver a *single file* executable with the *same* code on at least 3 platforms at once ... Graphics are excellent and they are/look the *same* on the 3 platforms ... wx is kind of ugly (for me, at least) and takes a lot of screen space just to display big borders inside big borders ... Of course I'm not the developper of PgAdmin and surely I have no idea of what's inside its code - by the way, the devs are really doing a great job - but I guess it will not hurt to simplify and optimize - and to me PgAdmin needs it (how many bugs caused by wxW needed workarounds by now?). Having a framework that is instantly available on several platforms and that can be linked inside the executable file could be a nice advantage for PgAdmin: easy to install, not big size, and fully functional - could make life a lot easier for many out there ( including devs ;-) ) ... These are my thoughts and you're welcome to criticize / make points. Thank you, Marian > Marian POPESCU a ecrit le 20/12/2006 11:27: >> Given the fact that it's such a pain to develop PgAdmin with wxWidgets, >> how about a GPLd library written in C++ and that offers the same base for >> Windows, Linux and Mac? >> > > I don't understand why you think it is painful to develop with > wxWidgets. Can you tell us ? > >> I found by accident this link and is really amazing ! >> >> http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/ >> > > And can you explain us why Juce would be better than wxWidgets ? > > Regards. > > -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - S o f t E x p e r t - ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marian POPESCU a ecrit le 20/12/2006 11:57: > Well, for me it seems that there were some serious efforts to overcome bugs > in wxWidgets; today there is no PgAdmin3 1.6.1 for Fedora available: wxW > 2.8.x was not released ... This is a package issue. A packager can compile pgAdmin with wxWidget statically linked and there will be no issue (but pgadmin will be alot bigger). Distros prefer to package dynamically linked libraries with good reasons : much smaller binaries, new library' release fixes stuff on all binary, etc. > On the other hand, this library allows you to develop and deliver a *single > file* executable with the *same* code on at least 3 platforms at once ... > Graphics are excellent and they are/look the *same* on the 3 platforms ... > wx is kind of ugly (for me, at least) and takes a lot of screen space just > to display big borders inside big borders ... > > Of course I'm not the developper of PgAdmin and surely I have no idea of > what's inside its code - by the way, the devs are really doing a great > job - but I guess it will not hurt to simplify and optimize - and to me > PgAdmin needs it (how many bugs caused by wxW needed workarounds by now?). > Perhaps pgAdmin needs it but such a change would require so much hours of work. We actually don't have the time. > Having a framework that is instantly available on several platforms and that > can be linked inside the executable file could be a nice advantage for > PgAdmin: easy to install, not big size, and fully functional - could make > life a lot easier for many out there ( including devs ;-) ) ... > wxWidgets is already able to do this. Regards. -- Guillaume.
Marian POPESCU wrote: > Guillaume Lelarge wrote: > > Well, for me it seems that there were some serious efforts to overcome bugs > in wxWidgets; today there is no PgAdmin3 1.6.1 for Fedora available: wxW > 2.8.x was not released ... wxWidgets 2.8 has been released, and even if it hadn't been it's not really any different from most other versions of pgAdmin where we also used non-release versions of wxWidgets because we needed bleeding edge functionality. > On the other hand, this library allows you to develop and deliver a *single > file* executable with the *same* code on at least 3 platforms at once ... We can do that with wxWidgets. Just run a static build <shrug>/ > Graphics are excellent and they are/look the *same* on the 3 platforms ... There's a major problem for a start. One of the reasons we use wxWidgets is because it uses the native widget set on each platform to retain the standard look'n'feel for the user. Again though, if we wanted to make the user use a standard widget set, we could just as easily use wxUniversal. > wx is kind of ugly (for me, at least) and takes a lot of screen space just > to display big borders inside big borders ... The way we use wxWidgets it uses the standard widgets on each platform so it should look essentially the same as any other native app. The exception is on Mac where the carbon graphics library in use has been a bit kludgy until now. I've been working with the wxMac guys to ensure their new interface works well with pgAdmin - expect to see that with the 1.6.2 build. > Of course I'm not the developper of PgAdmin and surely I have no idea of > what's inside its code - by the way, the devs are really doing a great > job - but I guess it will not hurt to simplify and optimize - and to me > PgAdmin needs it (how many bugs caused by wxW needed workarounds by now?). You assume that there are no bugs in Juce, which I very much doubt. I also imagine there's a whole host of *very* complex features that we use in pgAdmin that are missing altogether - in particular ones that spring to mind are - the advanced frame manager that provides the docking window support - the styled text control with SQL syntax highlighting and all it's other useful features that allow us to do error location and brace matching for example. - i18n support - A grid control (even the list box doesn't appear to support multiple columns). - Support for *BSD and Solaris. > Having a framework that is instantly available on several platforms and that > can be linked inside the executable file could be a nice advantage for > PgAdmin: easy to install, not big size, and fully functional - could make > life a lot easier for many out there ( including devs ;-) ) ... I honestly don't see anything there that wxWidgets cannot do. We have build scripts for wx that allow you to build and install all useful variant builds on Windows, Mac and FreeBSD/Solaris/Linux with a single command, and if you want a single executable, just configure pgAdmin with --enable-static (which I do for the Slackware package, and is in fact the only supported build on Windows at present!). Regards, Dave.
Marian POPESCU написа: > Hi, > > Given the fact that it's such a pain to develop PgAdmin with wxWidgets, how > about a GPLd library written in C++ and that offers the same base for > Windows, Linux and Mac? > > I found by accident this link and is really amazing ! > > http://www.rawmaterialsoftware.com/juce/ > > Please give it a try ... > Any advantages over QT? (Which is also dual licensed (GPL and commercial), multi-platform and uses its own widgets instead of the platform's ones. And is infinitely more mature than JUCE.) Not I would recommend re-writing everything in QT or in any other library, but at least your proposal should have some clear advantages over any existing libraries. -- Milen A. Radev