Re: pgadmin4 - Use classic style interface, don't launch browser?

Wow.. I go on vacation for a few days and I find this heated thread
going full speed ahead!

Interesting history on why the removal of the 'native interface' occurred.

I do a lot of web work and routinely wind up with locked up or crashed
browsers, so having pgadmin4 run in a browser tab is less than ideal..
although sometimes I run firefox/chrome as another user to have some
memory/process separation so that not ALL of my browsers die when
chrome/firefox barfs up a big one.  I suppose I could maintain yet
another user and make sure I start up pgadmin4 as that.

Would there be a possibility of embedding chromium?  Since of course
it's actively developed and everyone including their pet cat are using
it as a rendering engine these days (including microsoft)  Not sure of
the compatibility with the BSD license would go...




On 7/28/19 2:54 PM, richard coleman wrote:
> Avin,
>
> Let me start by saying;
> grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes.png
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 3:43 AM Avin Kavish <avinkavish@gmail.com
> <mailto:avinkavish@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     They weren't aimed directly at anyone in particular. They were
>     suggestions for go-getters who like to take control of their own
>     fate and instead of waiting for the randomness of the universe to
>     deliver unto them what they seek. Maybe I should have put a warning
>     saying "not for the faint hearted, requires effort and reading docs
>     to accomplish"
>     Your missive appeared directed at the fella who was complaining
>     about the problems that pgAdmin4 relying on a browser was causing
>     him, especially in regards to password management.  I apologize if I
>     misunderstood.
>
>     so he would need to install nodejs, npm, nativefier, either open a
>     command line/terminal every time he wants to start pgAdmin4 or write
>     a batch/shell script to start it.  He would also have to remember to
>     start the pgAdmin /server/ separately and forget about using the
>     "New pgAdmin window" function.  To add insult to injury, he'd have
>     to have separate scripts/commands if he should want a tray icon or
>     to run it full screen.
>
>     ^ With the way you word things, even standing up sounds hard. It's
>     all perspective, it's accomplishable with a bit of effort. While it
>     may not be possible to get nativefier to behave as described above,
>     because it's an automated tool, you can script electron to do all of
>     the above for you.
>     That depends on the person, for some people /putting in half a dozen
>     stitches /is accomplishable with a bit of effort (heck I've done it
>     myself, painful but surely doable).  I would still recommend someone
>     who's sliced themselves open go to the emergency room, or at least
>     see a doctor.  But I guess it's all a matter of /perspective/ 😉.
>
>
>     To add insult to injury,
>
>     ^ There are no insults nor injuries mate, surely nothing physical.
>     It leads me to believe that you are referring to emotional injury.
>     Which then leads me to conclude that you are too emotional about
>     this whole business of administering a database thing. Or maybe you
>     are a fan of hyperbole, I don't know. Tone is up to interpretation
>     in written communication.
>
> Actually that's called /a figure of speech /[ *no end users were harmed
> in the writing of the previous email*].
>
>
>     quite often actually.  I have /lots/ of work to do that doesn't
>     involve a web browser.
>
>     ^ Sure, do that work and also keep the web browser open? How does a
>     web browser window interrupt your work? How is it any different from
>     having a dedicated window open? Do you run out of RAM or something?
>     Do you accidentally start browsing memes when you have a browser
>     open? What's the problem? Be explicit about what's wrong with the
>     browser.
>
>     In my case, I don't need it, and yes I *do* run out of RAM or
> something (Can I have just a /little more RAM sir? )😋./
>
>
>     pulling the tab out wouldn't do *anything* toward solving his
>     problem, which revolved around password management
>
>     ^ It wasn't meant to solve the password problem but needing a
>     standalone window problem, which is also mentioned in the write up.
>     In fact, this email wasn't aimed at anyone in particular. It is a
>     general write up with a few suggestions for all the standalone
>     window needs I've seen over the past few days. I haven't directly
>     addressed anyone. I'm not sure you who you are referring to by
>     "his". I'm just a developer sharing my knowledge in hopes that
>     someone would benefit from it.
>
>    I don't know, but I am pretty sure /most/ people these days (with the
> possible exception of my over 70 father) know how to either pull off a
> tab, or start another instance of their web browser.  '/His/' was the
> person who wrote the initial email complaining about pgAdmin4 running in
> a browser and making a mess of his password management.
>
>
>     Personally I have my own issues with the decision to write pgAdmin4
>     as a /web app/ running in it's own self contained web server.
>     However I don't think that there is much of a desire among the
>     /official/ dev team to change this
>
>     ^ pgAdmin4 cannot be changed from a client-server architecture to
>     anything else. It is too late. A re-write would be required, which
>     is a breaking change. The only possibility is to affect the design
>     decisions of pgAdmin5 or 6. If anyone makes a factual and formal
>     presentation of why the existing client-server architecture should
>     be replaced with something else rather than improving it, we could
>     have a serious discussion. But I doubt it, I think everything can be
>     improved within the current architecture.
>     Yes, as a developer I realize the work it would take at this stage
>     to create an actual client program as opposed to the embedded web
>     server that it is now.  Which is why I wrote that I don't see much
>     of a desire among the official dev team to change things.   If you,
>     or any member of the dev team wants to have a serious discussion
>     about the merits and limitations of the current architecture with a
>     goal of possibly changing things, I'm all for it.  Unfortunately it
>     appears that the design and road map have already been determined by
>     the current dev team.  With the exception of reported bugs, or
>     unforeseen issues, they don't appear to be open to any substantial
>     changes.
>
>     One thing I don't see in these emails is any credible facts and
>     arguments against browsers, just a statement of personal unhappiness
>     at the change of status quo. Maybe, if arguments based on facts that
>     affect user experience, security or performance were provided, the
>     team would do something about them, as they have been doing since
>     the start. Instead, I see complaints. I don't see constructive
>     feedback on possible improvements on this topic. I don't see
>     solutions. I don't even see real problems.
>     Hmmm.. where to begin.
>
>   * not all browsers are supported (as evidenced by a bug report where I
>     was told that Chromium isn't a /supported/ browser)
>   * you have to run the UI as a separate program from the program itself
>   * you have to worry about collisions between a /particular/ browser's
>     short cuts and another's (Chrome is different from FireFox is
>     different from Edge, etc.)
>   * context (or right-click) menus aren't typical of a desktop program
>     (no copy / paste option in the query window for example)
>   * you are limited to a single /window /(tab)
>   * you don't have true pop-ups/dialog boxes/notifications
>   * if you detach a query editor panel, you can't reattach it (though
>     that's hopefully just an unresolved bug)
>   * your /session/ is now open to attacks from malicious plugins or
>     random people across the internet (it's a /browser/ after all)
>   * your user / password management is effected by your particular
>     browser's cache or policy
>   * you're limited to the sand boxed security restrictions of the
>     particular browser you happen to be using (try loading a 10 GB file)
>   * disruptions of the connection between the application and the UI,
>     timeout's etc. occur (long running pgAdmin4 sessions can cause the
>     UI to freeze under kubuntu).
>
>       Not an exhaustive listing by any stretch, just what I could come
> up with off the top of my head.
>
>     so, your final suggestion is that, /if/ he's a javascript developer
>     he could simply /write his own program/ to fix a perceived pgAdmin4
>     shortcoming.
>
>     ^ yeah absolutely, write your own programs without asking other
>     people to do it for you for free of charge !!!!????? It's open
>     source software. No one owes you anything. This is distributed
>     without liability
>     <https://electronjs.org/docs/api/browser-window>. The existence of
>     postgresql and pgadmin itself are mere courtesies.
>
>
>     😂 No one said that they were *owed* anything.  No one is claiming
> anyone is /liable/ for anything either.  Saying that if you don't like
> it you should just write your own is rather short sighted.  Unless the
> dev team is writing pgAdmin4 *only* for *themselves* then they should
> care about what the end users care about.  Otherwise they may find that
> they are the only ones using it. 🤔
>
>
>     I did not mean write an entirely new admin app, I meant embed
>     pgAdmin4 in Electron which literally takes 5 lines of code as a
>     start <https://electronjs.org/docs/api/browser-window>.  1. Create a
>     browser window. 2. Point it to pgAdmin4 URL. 3. Enjoy !!. If you
>     know SQL, this is definitely do-able. And no it's not like the
>     normal browser window. It will look like a normal app. Or you could
>     increase the immersion by creating a frameless window but you may
>     not be able to close it normally.
>     https://electronjs.org/docs/api/frameless-window
>
>     Here's a starting point. Follow this getting started
>     <https://electronjs.org/docs/tutorial/first-app>first and replace
>     the code in main.js
>
>     |const { app, BrowserWindow } = require('electron') let win function
>     createWindow () { win = new BrowserWindow({ width: 800, height: 600,
>     webPreferences: { nodeIntegration: true } }) win.loadURL('|http://127.0.0.1:45707/browser/') // <--- Fix the port
numberand point this address to it. 
>
>     |win.on('closed', () => { win = null }) } app.on('ready',
>     createWindow) app.on('window-all-closed', () => { if
>     (process.platform !== 'darwin') { app.quit() } }) app.on('activate',
>     () => { if (win === null) { createWindow() } })|
>
>     That's all there is to it. Once you have that working, you can take
>     it a step further by getting electron to launch the pgadmin4 server
>     if it is not running already by using spawn
>     <https://nodejs.org/api/child_process.html#child_process_child_process_execsync_command_options>
>
>     It's nice that you included the above, but it's not terribly helpful
>     to the /non/-programmer.  I could write the Lorentz transformation
>     equations to handle relative velocities in special relativity
>
>     image.png
>
> but unless you're familiar with differential calculus and special
> relativity it's not very helpful.
>
>     *Maybe an alternate launch option based on Electron should be an
>     officially supported feature ?*
>
> Maybe.  Though I think it would have to handle the above mentioned
> limitations, and be /built in/ for it to help *most* people.
>
> So there, no attacks, insults, or other /negativity. / Just one man's
> opinion.
>
>
>
>     On Sun, Jul 28, 2019 at 1:07 AM richard coleman
>     <rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com <mailto:rcoleman.ascentgl@gmail.com>>
>     wrote:
>
>         Hi Avin,
>
>         My $0.02
>
>         On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 2:11 PM Avin Kavish
>         <avinkavish@gmail.com <mailto:avinkavish@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>             Hey,
>
>             Here's some unofficial input on the topic.
>
>             This request baffles me for two reasons.
>
>             a. Why does one need a standalone window when they can have
>             pgAdmin open in a tab while multi-tasking. Is there ever a
>             time when the web browser is closed while using a pc in
>             2019? If you lose tabs you can pin the tab and it will
>             always be on the left side.
>
>         quite often actually.  I have /lots/ of work to do that doesn't
>         involve a web browser.
>
>             b. If you want it to run in it's own window, you can drag
>             and pull the tab to it's own standalone window.
>
>         pulling the tab out wouldn't do *anything* toward solving his
>         problem, which revolved around password management
>
>             If that doesn't solve your problem,
>
>             You can try Nativefier but you might need to launch pgAdmin
>             on the same port each time. It basically wraps any web site
>             in an electron app. Electron fyi allows developing desktop
>             apps using web technologies. It's based on chromium and
>             nodejs and renders web apps just like google chrome would.
>             https://github.com/jiahaog/nativefier
>
>           so he would need to install nodejs, npm, nativefier, either
>         open a command line/terminal every time he wants to start
>         pgAdmin4 or write a batch/shell script to start it.  He would
>         also have to remember to start the pgAdmin /server/ separately
>         and forget about using the "New pgAdmin window" function.  To
>         add insult to injury, he'd have to have
>         separate scripts/commands if he should want a tray icon or to
>         run it full screen.
>
>
>             Or if you are a javascript developer you can write an
>             electron app yourself to encapsulate and extend upon the
>             current functionality. https://electronjs.org/
>
>         so, your final suggestion is that, /if/ he's a javascript
>         developer he could simply /write his own program/ to fix a
>         perceived pgAdmin4 shortcoming.
>
>             Personally, I find it convenient to have it as a tab while
>             reading docs and other stuff and often prefer it to
>             switching to my IDE.
>
>         I'm glad that you find the current set up convenient,
>         unfortunately it seems like this is a problem for at least Mark
>         and tutiluren.
>
>             Once again, this is unofficial. I'm not part of the team.
>
>         neither am I.
>
>         Personally I have my own issues with the decision to write
>         pgAdmin4 as a /web app/ running in it's own self contained web
>         server.  However I don't think that there is much of a desire
>         among the /official/ dev team to change this.
>
>         rik.
>
>             Regards,
>             Avin
>
>             On Sat, Jul 27, 2019 at 10:51 PM Murtuza Zabuawala
>             <murtuza.zabuawala@enterprisedb.com
>             <mailto:murtuza.zabuawala@enterprisedb.com>> wrote:
>
>                 Hello,
>
>                 I am afraid this is not possible at a moment,  pgAdmin4
>                 doesn't have its own UI  rendering engine so it is
>                 dependent on the default web browser on the user's system.
>
>                 -- Murtuza
>
>                 On Fri, 26 Jul 2019, 21:32 Mark Murawski,
>                 <markm-lists@intellasoft.net
>                 <mailto:markm-lists@intellasoft.net>> wrote:
>
>                     Hello!
>
>                     How can I go back to the traditional pgadmin4
>                     interface where it runs in
>                     its own window.  I do not want to launch it as a
>                     browser tab.
>
>