Re: About PostgreSQL certification

On Jan 24, 2007, at 9:50 AM, John Zubac wrote:
> I find your statements about Postgres being a huge business risk  
> pretty laughable. First of all, Postgres is based on SQL92 and  
> SQL99 standards which means that most scripts are pretty much the  
> same compared to MSSQL and Oracle. The only thing I have seen to  
> learn are the postgres datatypes. Big deal! PGAdmin III will write  
> most scripts for you and that too is pretty much free. I dealt with  
> it when we started learning and using postgres. I only had  
> experience in Oracle and MSSQL.

If that's the only thing you had to learn, we aren't talking about  
the same risks.  Datatypes are developer level differences. Tuning,  
sizing, disaster recovery planning, backups, differences in or lack  
of enterprise features and integration -- these are all very  
different between databases and fundamental to operating it in an  
enterprise environment.

You can laugh if you like.  I don't laugh about these things, neither  
do our clients.  Many have decided to run postgres and that decision  
was a good one.  Many do not and their decisions were also wise.   
Several people at the dayjob, including me, travel and speak on  
postgres, database replication, large architecture management, open  
source, etc.  We promote postgres in many venues.  I said: "If you  
only want to hire people with extensive experience, you're exposing  
yourself to an enormous business risk by adopting postgres."

There simple aren't that many people that have extensive experience.   
So you you are hinging the success of your business of one of those  
people being available,  it _is_ an enormous business risk.  My  
arguments here are not against postgres, they are for training and  
certification -- both help dramatically increase the pool of people  
with sufficient experience.

> Also comparing Postgres to MYSQL is also pretty funny, since there  
> are instances of MYSQL LOSING databases due to corruption because  
> they do not have PITR and their transaction rollback feature did  
> not work properly last time I checked. This is really a issue of  
> people being close minded to great database software and not being  
> able to sell it to their superiors.

It's not funny at all.  Just like comparing PostgreSQL to Apache  
isn't funny (Covalent did spectacular things legitimizing the use of  
Apache in the global 2000).  The fact that MySQL has lost data is not  
germane to the discussion.  There have been bugs in PostgreSQL as  
well.  And there has been data loss with PostgreSQL and Oracle and  
MSSQL.  We're talking about business risks due to resource  
availability in the job market capable of managing postgresql in an  
enterprise environment.  And was stating that solid certification  
programs can and will increase the availability of those resources  
and reduce the risks in adopting postgres as a solution.

I, along with most of the people in the community, believe in  
PostgreSQL, believe in the direction development is going in and want  
to see adoption increase.

> This is the way I sold postgres to my boss. It is opensource (low  
> cost), all the features of MSSQL and then some, WAY FASTER than  
> MSSQL on a BSD platform, very good recovery when the database gets  
> corrupted (this happens to all databases from user error usually),  
> and lastly you can always migrate the data to another database if  
> you don't like postgres in the end.

I have no problem representing the positive aspects of postgres.  I  
am also not blind to its shortcomings.  We manage one of the larger  
postgres instances out there -- I know its pros and cons well.


// Theo Schlossnagle
// CTO -- http://www.omniti.com/~jesus/
// OmniTI Computer Consulting, Inc. -- http://www.omniti.com/