Re: advocacy: drupal and PostgreSQL

Bill Moran wrote:
> In response to Tom Hart <tomhart@coopfed.org>:
>
>
>>
>> Let me just sneak in a quick rant here, from somebody who really doesn't
>> matter.
>>
>> We run drupal for our corporate intranet (currently being built) and we
>> use postgreSQL as the backend. Some of the modules and things don't work
>> perfectly, but drupal supported it and that made me happy enough to work
>> with it. Now after reading this garbage, I'm extremely disappointed.
>> Completely dropping postgresql capability might not affect them too
>> largely in the huge run, because a large amount of their user base is
>> using mySQL, but it would send a message to those of us that believe in
>> choice. I'm afraid that they're choosing the route of convenience over
>> their users, and every time I think about it I want to go looking for
>> replacements.
>>
>
> I run my personal site on Drupal+PostgreSQL.  If Drupal drops PG support,
> I'll switch the front-end.  I'm not switching the back end.
>
> I'm also planning a small enterprise that I was originally considering
> using Drupal for.  I'm now more seriously considering Bricolage.
>
> However, read on ...
>
>
>> It'd be easier to build drupal to only run on mySQL, but then again it'd
>> be easy to build postgreSQL to only run on linux and forget about the
>> windows users. I know it's not their duty to make drupal work with
>> postgresql, but if they drop it like they're talking about, I'll be
>> making a push here and to everyone I know who uses drupal to switch to
>> another system, whether they're running postgres or not. If drupal 6
>> absolutely doesn't support postgres, then I'm dropping my drupal 5
>> install on the spot. This is a cold move drupal, and you should be ashamed.
>>
>
> I made a post on the drupal-devel list to this effect.  I got chewed out
> for "flaming" Karoly ... who's obviously some big Drupal code guru.
>
> Frankly, every time this topic comes up, it's initiated by Karoly, and
> I've lost patience with the crap, so I unsubscribed.
>
> If I can get my life back in order, I'll re-subscribe some time in Feb,
> and hopefully start to do something productive, like contribute testing
> and patches.
>
>
>> Sorry, I'll end the rant here.
>>
>> BTW, I'm a PHP developer who uses postgreSQL almost exclusively and I'm
>> on this list as well as other postgres lists constantly (even if as a
>> reader most of the time). If they have this big of an issue, why not ask
>> for help?
>>
>
> If you read through the thread, it's just Karoly and a few other minor
> players in the Drupal community.  Many people have stepped up and said,
> "I _do_ test on PostgreSQL, so what are you complaining about?"
>
> As best I can tell, Karoly writes patches, and when they don't work on
> PostgreSQL and therefore don't get committed right away, he starts this
> argument up on the Drupal lists yet again.  The guy is a whiner who has
> a personal axe to grind and seems unable to accept that Drupal wants to
> run on more than just MySQL.  If he loves MySQL so much, he should join
> a project that only supports MySQL and leave the Drupal people to their
> work.  There's a LOT of effort in the Drupal community to build code
> abstractions that will make the system database-agnostic, and Karoly's
> constant whining is simply counterproductive.
>
> To a large degree, I think Karoly has blown the situation out of
> proportion.  Look at how it affects _this_ list every time he starts
> bitching, for example.
>
>
Is it just Karoly (chx) who has all these things to say about pg? He's
just one person on the drupal team. Has anybody else in the core team
spoken out on this subject?

Let's keep in mind as well that this doesn't only affect pg users but
any other database as well that drupal supports or plans on supporting.
Drupal is pretty popular, and I expect there are a number of
organizations that don't fit in their mold of the "ideal drupal user".

I'd almost consider trying to take drupal and create a derivative
product and build in the pg and oracle and mssql, etc. support myself,
but if the drupal team really pulls a messed up move like this, I really
don't want to have anything to do with them anymore. It's not that I'm
that huge of a pg nut (I used mySQL for a while myself), but any team
that can turn it's back on that many of it's users to make their lives a
little easier isn't in it for the right reasons (the advancement of
technology, computing as a science, etc.). I am literally astonished
that they would even consider telling even 1% of their users "Take off,
you're too much work". How many drupal+postgres users are large
corporations, or regular donators? What about code contributors? How
many people are they looking at pissing off with a move like this?

Obviously emotion has gotten the better of me which is why I won't post
to the drupal boards/lists (I might be accused of flaming and I don't
want to paint the pgSQL community in a negative light), but I think that
somebody should let the drupal people know that we're still here and
we'd like to use the new drupal, just not on mySQL.

Oh, and a collective middle finger to anybody that says the pg community
is too small to bother with.

--
Tom Hart
IT Specialist
Cooperative Federal
723 Westcott St.
Syracuse, NY 13210
(315) 471-1116 ext. 202
(315) 476-0567 (fax)