Re: No easy way to join discussion in existing thread when not subscribed

* Amir Rohan (amir.rohan@mail.com) wrote:
> Amir Rohan (amir.rohan@mail.com) wrote:
> >> So far, I've been downloading the mbox, importing it to my mail
> >> client and then replying and it's quite cumbersome.
>
> On 09/28/2015 04:07 PM, Stephen Frost wrote:
> > * Andres Freund (andres@anarazel.de) wrote:
> >> On 2015-09-28 08:44:18 -0400, Stephen Frost wrote:
> >>> My hope is to convince Magnus to add that (or maybe I'll try and write
> >>> it myself..) and then have a macro in mutt which grabs the Message-ID of
> >>> the current message and pulls down the mbox and opens it.
>
> The montly mbox only updates once a day, you sometimes need to wait for
> several hours to send a reply, so a single-message mbox would be
> helpful. But the "mail me a copy" link solution would be even better,
> and would works with all mail clients out of the box.

My thinking about the mbox format would be an mbox of the entire thread,
not just of an individual email.  Having the whole thread can be useful
for a couple of reasons (for example, if you want to reply to more than
one email in a single email).

I'd expect it to be generated on-the-fly just like the 'flat' (now
'whole thread') view is.

That said, I've got nothing against the mail-me-a-copy option being
available when you're logged in with your community account.

> > <...> having the ability to pull down an mbox format of just
> > the thread would be helpful.  That's a capability which I'm also
> > interested in and which could be useful to a lot of people, regardless
> > of their mail client.
>
> If you use mutt, you're good, but I don't. How friendly is the following
> process is, keeping in mind that this is what a new member of the
> community, interacting for the first time, goes through:

I'm not convinced that being a new member of the community has much to
do with any of this.

> 1. Oh! Good thread on pgsql-hackers, I think we should paint it
> azure blue. Let's send my first message to the list!
> 2. Wait, what's the address to send to? looks around (but that's ok)
> 3. Now, how do I get my message into the thread? (prolonged googling
> and SO/superuser hunting)
> 4. Oh, I need a copy of the original message (no header editing in my
> email client. Many users use webmail) How do I get one?
> Alternatively, how do I edit headers in gmail/web, and what exactly
> do I need to add (google some more).
> 5. aha, the website provides mbox, let's go!

All of the above does not impress me terribly much.  If the individual
isn't familiar with mailing lists in general, it's unlikely that we're
going to get over that hurdle very easily.  Certainly, lots of people
have tried to make mailing lists easy for the web 3.0 crowd but I've not
seen a particularly successful one yet.

> 6. Wait, I need to register to download? this is getting ridiculous.

You don't have to register to download the mbox, you just have to 'log
in', where 'logging in' is reading the authorization prompt and putting
in what it tells you.

> 7. Register. Refresh*3. Get an a email. click the verify link.
> 8. Go back and download the mbox.
> 9. Ok, how do I import the mbox into my client? (googling some more)
> 10. Need an addon, (googling, choosing among alternatives). Install.
> Restart.
> 11. Ok, ready, how do I use it? (create a special mail folder, import mbox).
> 12. 1500 messages, what was the thread name again (go to browser, find
> thread, search, locate thread, located message).

I have this frustration with mutt. :)  Which is why I'd like an mbox of
just the thread that I want to reply to.

> 13. Hit reply and post.
>
> Getting from 1 to 13 can take well over an hour, perhaps two.
> By that time, you may not remember why you started this whole thing
> in the first place and have formed a fairly strong impression of
> life in postgresville.

When I started in postgresville, I was already familiar with mailing
lists from being a Debian Developer.  A friend of mine introduced me to
both Debian and mailing lists back when I was using Slackware (having
converted over from FreeBSD and, prior to that, BSDi).  At that time, I
was also introduced to mailing lists and learned that the way to get
started in a community was to subscribe to the mailing lists and watch
the traffic and then jump in when I saw a conversation that I could
contribute to.

I certainly understand that things are different today and more things
need to be 'web-3.0-y', but while I do think having the ability to
download the thread as an mbox or having a link to 'send me a copy'
which works when you're logged into your community account will help,
I'm not really sure it's going to make for a markedly different
experience for the kind of user you're mimicking.

Here's a fun question- is there some way we could integrate with gmail?
Or is there a gmail archive (or a way of getting our email archived by
gmail) such that a user could find threads/email in gmail and then reply
to them that way?  Or a way we could integrate, provide scripts, or at
least directions, for users of other email clients?

> And soon after *that*, you learn there's no bugtracker.

Yes, well, we're making some progress on that now.  I've got a few other
things which are higher priority given that we have a drop-dead date for
beta, but I'm hoping to get to it soon.

Thanks!

Stephen