Обсуждение: Joe Hellerstein's "Looking Back at Postgres" paper
I happened to come across this: https://arxiv.org/pdf/1901.01973 I found this to be really interesting reading, so I wonder if we shouldn't cite it in history.sgml or some such place. regards, tom lane
> On 4 Jul 2024, at 07:40, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: > > I happened to come across this: > > https://arxiv.org/pdf/1901.01973 > > I found this to be really interesting reading, so I wonder if > we shouldn't cite it in history.sgml or some such place. It's a really good read, +1 for referencing it in history.sgml. I would probably have placed it at the tail end of 2.1 to wrap up that section or at the very end. Unrelated to that, but reading history.sgml I found this sentend at the end of the page to be sort of misleading: "Details about what has happened in PostgreSQL since then can be found in Appendix E." While technically true, it seems a bit overpromising in a history section to refer to the release notes which are written in a very different way from the prose here (and the release notes are not even in Appendix E anymore). -- Daniel Gustafsson
Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se> writes: > Unrelated to that, but reading history.sgml I found this sentend at the end of > the page to be sort of misleading: > "Details about what has happened in PostgreSQL since then can be found > in Appendix E." > While technically true, it seems a bit overpromising in a history section to > refer to the release notes which are written in a very different way from the > prose here (and the release notes are not even in Appendix E anymore). Well, it made sense with our old practice of including all the notes back to 1996 in appendix E. But now, not so much. The simplest fix would be to change this text to point to https://www.postgresql.org/docs/release/ regards, tom lane
> On 4 Jul 2024, at 17:12, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: > > Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se> writes: >> Unrelated to that, but reading history.sgml I found this sentend at the end of >> the page to be sort of misleading: > >> "Details about what has happened in PostgreSQL since then can be found >> in Appendix E." > >> While technically true, it seems a bit overpromising in a history section to >> refer to the release notes which are written in a very different way from the >> prose here (and the release notes are not even in Appendix E anymore). > > Well, it made sense with our old practice of including all the notes > back to 1996 in appendix E. Yup, and I'm glad we don't anymore. > But now, not so much. The simplest fix would be to change this text to point to > > https://www.postgresql.org/docs/release/ Agreed. I would probably reword that to say "Details about what has happened in each PostgreSQL release since.." while at it. -- Daniel Gustafsson
Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se> writes: > On 4 Jul 2024, at 07:40, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: >> I happened to come across this: >> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1901.01973 >> I found this to be really interesting reading, so I wonder if >> we shouldn't cite it in history.sgml or some such place. > It's a really good read, +1 for referencing it in history.sgml. I would > probably have placed it at the tail end of 2.1 to wrap up that section or at > the very end. After thinking for awhile, that seemed like burying the lede. It's an independent telling of the tale, and could reasonably go near the top, as in the attached draft. (I'm not too sure how to cite book chapters in DocBook, so feel free to critique that. Also, I noticed that the ports12 item was not in alphabetical order, so I moved it.) > Unrelated to that, but reading history.sgml I found this sentend at the end of > the page to be sort of misleading: > "Details about what has happened in PostgreSQL since then can be found > in Appendix E." Fixed that too. BTW, I contacted Hellerstein to make sure he's okay with this, and he is. regards, tom lane diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/biblio.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/biblio.sgml index cd8aa3e8aa..443e2d6fac 100644 --- a/doc/src/sgml/biblio.sgml +++ b/doc/src/sgml/biblio.sgml @@ -230,27 +230,6 @@ ssimkovi@ag.or.at <bibliodiv> <title>Proceedings and Articles</title> - <biblioentry id="ports12"> - <biblioset relation="article"> - <title><ulink url="https://arxiv.org/pdf/1208.4179">Serializable Snapshot Isolation in PostgreSQL</ulink></title> - <authorgroup> - <author> - <firstname>D.</firstname> - <surname>Ports</surname> - </author> - <author> - <firstname>K.</firstname> - <surname>Grittner</surname> - </author> - </authorgroup> - </biblioset> - <confgroup> - <conftitle>VLDB Conference</conftitle> - <confdates>August 2012</confdates> - <address>Istanbul, Turkey</address> - </confgroup> - </biblioentry> - <biblioentry id="berenson95"> <biblioset relation="article"> <title><ulink url="https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/research/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/tr-95-51.pdf">A Critique ofANSI SQL Isolation Levels</ulink></title> @@ -288,6 +267,24 @@ ssimkovi@ag.or.at </confgroup> </biblioentry> + <biblioentry id="hell18"> + <biblioset relation="article"> + <title><ulink url="https://arxiv.org/pdf/1901.01973">Looking Back at Postgres</ulink></title> + <author> + <firstname>J.</firstname> + <surname>Hellerstein</surname> + </author> + </biblioset> + <biblioset relation="book"> + <title>Making Databases Work</title> + <isbn>978-1-947487-19-2</isbn> + <publisher> + <publishername>Association for Computing Machinery and Morgan & Claypool</publishername> + </publisher> + <pubdate>2018</pubdate> + </biblioset> + </biblioentry> + <biblioentry id="olson93"> <title>Partial indexing in POSTGRES: research project</title> <authorgroup> @@ -328,6 +325,27 @@ ssimkovi@ag.or.at </biblioset> </biblioentry> + <biblioentry id="ports12"> + <biblioset relation="article"> + <title><ulink url="https://arxiv.org/pdf/1208.4179">Serializable Snapshot Isolation in PostgreSQL</ulink></title> + <authorgroup> + <author> + <firstname>D.</firstname> + <surname>Ports</surname> + </author> + <author> + <firstname>K.</firstname> + <surname>Grittner</surname> + </author> + </authorgroup> + </biblioset> + <confgroup> + <conftitle>VLDB Conference</conftitle> + <confdates>August 2012</confdates> + <address>Istanbul, Turkey</address> + </confgroup> + </biblioentry> + <biblioentry id="rowe87"> <biblioset relation="article"> <title><ulink url="https://dsf.berkeley.edu/papers/ERL-M87-13.pdf">The <productname>POSTGRES</productname> diff --git a/doc/src/sgml/history.sgml b/doc/src/sgml/history.sgml index 19bea5390b..e7d134e53a 100644 --- a/doc/src/sgml/history.sgml +++ b/doc/src/sgml/history.sgml @@ -17,6 +17,12 @@ the most advanced open-source database available anywhere. </para> + <para> + Another take on the history presented here can be found in Dr. Joe + Hellerstein's paper <quote>Looking Back at Postgres</quote> + <xref linkend="hell18"/>. + </para> + <sect2 id="history-berkeley"> <title>The Berkeley <productname>POSTGRES</productname> Project</title> @@ -215,8 +221,10 @@ </para> <para> - Details about what has happened in <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> since - then can be found in <xref linkend="release"/>. + Details about what has happened in + each <productname>PostgreSQL</productname> release since then + can be found at + <ulink url="https://www.postgresql.org/docs/release/">https://www.postgresql.org/docs/release/</ulink>. </para> </sect2> </sect1>
> On 4 Jul 2024, at 22:22, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: > > Daniel Gustafsson <daniel@yesql.se> writes: >> On 4 Jul 2024, at 07:40, Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: >>> I happened to come across this: >>> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1901.01973 >>> I found this to be really interesting reading, so I wonder if >>> we shouldn't cite it in history.sgml or some such place. > >> It's a really good read, +1 for referencing it in history.sgml. I would >> probably have placed it at the tail end of 2.1 to wrap up that section or at >> the very end. > > After thinking for awhile, that seemed like burying the lede. > It's an independent telling of the tale, and could reasonably > go near the top, as in the attached draft. Agreed, good idea. > (I'm not too sure how to cite book chapters in DocBook, so feel > free to critique that. Also, I noticed that the ports12 item > was not in alphabetical order, so I moved it.) Reading the docbook reference I wasn't able to figure out a better way than what you have done so +1 on going ahead with this version. >> Unrelated to that, but reading history.sgml I found this sentend at the end of >> the page to be sort of misleading: >> "Details about what has happened in PostgreSQL since then can be found >> in Appendix E." > > Fixed that too. Thanks. > BTW, I contacted Hellerstein to make sure he's okay with this, > and he is. +1 -- Daniel Gustafsson
On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 5:40 PM Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: > I happened to come across this: > > https://arxiv.org/pdf/1901.01973 > > I found this to be really interesting reading, Just by the way, for anyone interested, that paper appeared as a chapter in a book "The Pragmatic Wisdom of Michael Stonebraker". It is expensive but a very enjoyable read. I doubt many other chapters from it are obvious candidates for a pointer from our docs like that one, except a couple of the old papers that we reference already. Another one that I especially enjoyed was Mike Olson's description of how Ingres, and Postgres not long behind it, were the first completely open source software, because through a series of coincidences they finished up publishing everything under an early not-yet-finalised BSD license before BSD itself. (BSD still required an AT&T licence for some bits until they were removed so it wasn't 100% open source until they fixed that, I think ) As for Joe Hellerstein's paper, personally I am still chewing on the many ramifications of the stuff pointed to by one paragraph of Hellerstein's paper, that I rambled about here, gulp, 5 years ago: https://www.postgresql.org/message-id/flat/CA%2BhUKGL-Fo9mZyFK1tdmzFng2puRBrgROsCiB1%3Dn7wP79mTZ%2Bg%40mail.gmail.com
Thomas Munro <thomas.munro@gmail.com> writes: > On Thu, Jul 4, 2024 at 5:40 PM Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: >> I happened to come across this: >> https://arxiv.org/pdf/1901.01973 > Just by the way, for anyone interested, that paper appeared as a > chapter in a book "The Pragmatic Wisdom of Michael Stonebraker". Hmm, the arxiv.org copy claims it appeared in "Making Databases Work", so that's how I cited it in the proposed patch. Is that wrong? Perhaps it was published twice? regards, tom lane
On Fri, Jul 5, 2024 at 11:13 AM Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: > Hmm, the arxiv.org copy claims it appeared in "Making Databases Work", > so that's how I cited it in the proposed patch. Is that wrong? > Perhaps it was published twice? No, you have it right, I confused myself with the subtitle. https://www.amazon.com/Making-Databases-Work-Pragmatic-Stonebraker/dp/1947487167