Обсуждение: accounting schema
Hi,<br /><br />I am learning my way into Accounting and was wondering how Accounting applications are designed. perhaps youcould point the way....<br /><br />On one hand, accountants talk about a sacret equation A = L + OE (Asset = Libility+ Owner Equity) and then under each categories there are one or many account. On the other hand a DBA thinks in termsof tables and relations. Instead of getting theoritical, allow me to setup an example<br /><br />Say you have have constructionproject (like a room addition) or one of those flip this house deals<br /><br />Owner brings the land (equity)of say worth $100K<br />Expenses begin to mount ( that is a minus against OE)<br /> Account Payble begins to mount(that is a liability)<br />And one day you experience a sale <br /><br />As a DBA, (and keeping it simple) I am thinkingI need a table for every account which migh look like<br /><br />id, description, credit, debit, validated, created_on,created_by, modified_on, modified_by<br /><br />Is that pretty match it ?<br />Please let me know if you haveseen some accounting or DB book that addresses this problem domain.<br /><br />Thanks<br />Medi<br /><br />
At 05:09 PM 2/6/2008, pgsql-sql-owner@postgresql.org wrote: >Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 17:08:54 -0800 >From: "Medi Montaseri" <montaseri@gmail.com> >To: pgsql-sql@postgresql.org >Subject: accounting schema >Message-ID: ><8078a1730802061708q17c72234xe61be822459a24a8@mail.gmail.com> > >Hi, > >I am learning my way into Accounting and was wondering how Accounting >applications are designed. perhaps you could point the way.... > >On one hand, accountants talk about a sacret equation A = L + OE >(Asset = >Libility + Owner Equity) and then under each categories there are one >or >many account. On the other hand a DBA thinks in terms of tables and >relations. Instead of getting theoritical, allow me to setup an >example Hi Medi, You might read some source code and docs for open source accounting software and see "how it's done." Here's one example that might be interesting and simple enough to follow: http://www.gnucash.org/ In general, I think there are many different accounting methods, so you have to get clear about which one you're using. "Double-entry" accounting is common. Cash vs. accrual posting methods matter (i.e. when does an expense or receivable "charge" against the assets balance?) My most basic understanding is that in general you track assets as they come in, to an "Accounts Receivable" ledger (i.e. table) and liabilities to an "Accounts Payable" ledger. Then you reconcile these two "books" into a "General Ledger" table which gives you something like an audit trail of all activity (and a running balance). I'm sure Wikipedia will define these three terms and lots more with greater clarity. But my (limited) experience with accounting schema is that they often involve these three tables (AR/AP/GL) at their core. As you add bank accounts, complex investment instruments, depreciation etc, things get considerably more complex of course. I'll readily admit my limited experience, and I'm sure others on this list have far better information. I hope this gets you started anyway. Sincerely, Steve
Thanks Steve...<br />This is all well and good...I am getting it...but I need to chew on it more....gnucash was a good one...didn'tthink of that....got to get passed all the GUI stuff...but...excellent ref...<br /><br />I suppose instead ofAR and AP tables, I can just have one table called Entry (thanks Joe....) with an attribute indicating AR vs AP.<br /><br/>I am also in favor of Double Entry and accrual posting....what do I know, I hear corporations do it this way...<br/><br />I also like the "audit trail" built-in feature...actually this was something I was baffled about...I wasoriginally thinking about editing capability, but what you are suggesting is that in practice, you don't change or eraseanything...to make a correction, you debit and then credit (keeping the sum happy) and yet you have the audit trail...verycool...I am liking this stuff...<br /><br />And finally you mentioned that bank accounts are tricky...can youexpand on this please. After all I am under the impression that "bank accounts" are a corner stone of this whole bookkeeping...I mean...bank accounts have debits and credits just like any account...eg interest earned is a credit and bankfees are debits...what worries you about bank accounts...<br /><br />Thanks guys...this is very very nice <br /><br />Medi<br/><br /><div class="gmail_quote">On Feb 6, 2008 6:35 PM, Steve Midgley <<a href="mailto:public@misuse.org">public@misuse.org</a>>wrote:<br /><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left:1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;"> At 05:09 PM 2/6/2008, <ahref="mailto:pgsql-sql-owner@postgresql.org">pgsql-sql-owner@postgresql.org</a> wrote:<br />>Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2008 17:08:54-0800<br />>From: "Medi Montaseri" <<a href="mailto:montaseri@gmail.com">montaseri@gmail.com</a>><br />>To: <a href="mailto:pgsql-sql@postgresql.org">pgsql-sql@postgresql.org</a><br />>Subject: accounting schema<br />>Message-ID:<br/>><<a href="mailto:8078a1730802061708q17c72234xe61be822459a24a8@mail.gmail.com">8078a1730802061708q17c72234xe61be822459a24a8@mail.gmail.com</a>><br /><divclass="Ih2E3d">><br />>Hi,<br />><br />>I am learning my way into Accounting and was wondering how Accounting<br/>>applications are designed. perhaps you could point the way....<br />><br />>On one hand, accountantstalk about a sacret equation A = L + OE<br /> >(Asset =<br />>Libility + Owner Equity) and then under eachcategories there are one<br />>or<br />>many account. On the other hand a DBA thinks in terms of tables and<br/>>relations. Instead of getting theoritical, allow me to setup an<br /> >example<br /><br /></div>Hi Medi,<br/><br />You might read some source code and docs for open source accounting<br />software and see "how it's done."Here's one example that might be<br />interesting and simple enough to follow:<br /><br /><a href="http://www.gnucash.org/"target="_blank">http://www.gnucash.org/</a><br /><br />In general, I think there are many differentaccounting methods, so you<br />have to get clear about which one you're using. "Double-entry"<br /> accountingis common. Cash vs. accrual posting methods matter (i.e.<br />when does an expense or receivable "charge" againstthe assets<br />balance?)<br /><br />My most basic understanding is that in general you track assets as they<br />come in, to an "Accounts Receivable" ledger (i.e. table) and<br />liabilities to an "Accounts Payable" ledger. Then youreconcile these<br />two "books" into a "General Ledger" table which gives you something<br /> like an audit trail ofall activity (and a running balance). I'm sure<br />Wikipedia will define these three terms and lots more with greater<br/>clarity.<br /><br />But my (limited) experience with accounting schema is that they often<br /> involve thesethree tables (AR/AP/GL) at their core.<br /><br />As you add bank accounts, complex investment instruments, depreciation<br/>etc, things get considerably more complex of course.<br /><br />I'll readily admit my limited experience,and I'm sure others on this<br /> list have far better information. I hope this gets you started anyway.<br /><br/>Sincerely,<br /><font color="#888888"><br />Steve<br /><br /></font></blockquote></div><br />
Medi Montaseri wrote: > Hi, > > I am learning my way into Accounting and was wondering how Accounting > applications are designed. perhaps you could point the way.... > > On one hand, accountants talk about a sacret equation A = L + OE (Asset > = Libility + Owner Equity) and then under each categories there are one > or many account. On the other hand a DBA thinks in terms of tables and > relations. Instead of getting theoritical, allow me to setup an example > > Say you have have construction project (like a room addition) or one of > those flip this house deals > > Owner brings the land (equity) of say worth $100K > Expenses begin to mount ( that is a minus against OE) > Account Payble begins to mount (that is a liability) > And one day you experience a sale > > As a DBA, (and keeping it simple) I am thinking I need a table for every > account which migh look like > > id, description, credit, debit, validated, created_on, created_by, > modified_on, modified_by > > Is that pretty match it ? > Please let me know if you have seen some accounting or DB book that > addresses this problem domain. > > Thanks > Medi > My home-grown system uses three key tables: account, transaction and split. The split joins a transaction to an account and an amount. All the splits for a single transaction must sum to zero (checked by a PL/pgSQL function triggered on insert, update and delete on the split table). For example, my pay is a single transaction with typically 8 splits reflecting what my pay-master does with my pay (tax, superannuation, health contrib, etc.) I also have other tables for managing reconciliations - each split has a reconciliation ID that indicates if/when that split was reconciled. Once reconciled, the split becomes, effectively, immutable (by the same PL/pgSQL function). Transactions contain date, description, who etc. (all from the top of my head - I should check what I really did many years ago). Most of the rest of it is then just mapping the accounts to the various ledgers and bank accounts etc. This model is very simple, for very simple people like me. Cheers, Bob Edwards.
At 06:54 PM 2/6/2008, Medi Montaseri wrote: >Thanks Steve... > >And finally you mentioned that bank accounts are tricky...can you >expand on this please. After all I am under the impression that "bank >accounts" are a corner stone of this whole book keeping...I >mean...bank accounts have debits and credits just like any >account...eg interest earned is a credit and bank fees are >debits...what worries you about bank accounts... > >Thanks guys...this is very very nice > >Medi Hi Medi, We may be well off-topic for Pgsql but it is a modeling issue so I'll reply on-list.. Consider this scenario: You want to track your AP/AR accounts by "business unit" - so you have a Marketing account, Sales account, Engineering account, etc. But let's say you want to keep all the money for all the "units" in only two bank accounts depending on which region the expenses will be paid out from (to reduce processing fees). So you might pay for things accrued by Engineering and Marketing on the West Coast from one bank account and Engineering and Marketing expenses on the East Coast from the other (a US-centric example). So the bank accounts where cash is actually deposited/withdrawn is different from where the money is received or spent from a "logical" perspective in the AR/AP ledgers. This is a simple example and real-world issues become truly horrendous. (For example, try to account for investment instruments like long term property holdings with lines of credit against the real estate). I've always thought that if DBA's existed when Accounting was invented, things would look very, very different. :) Good luck, Steve
Look at LedgerSMB at <www.ledgersmb.org>. It uses Postgresql. -- John Hasler john@dhh.gt.org Elmwood, WI USA
On Feb 6, 2008 6:08 PM, Medi Montaseri <montaseri@gmail.com> wrote: > I am learning my way into Accounting and was wondering how Accounting > applications are designed. perhaps you could point the way.... <SNIP> > As a DBA, (and keeping it simple) I am thinking I need a table for every > account which migh look like > > id, description, credit, debit, validated, created_on, created_by, > modified_on, modified_by > > Is that pretty match it ? > Please let me know if you have seen some accounting or DB book that > addresses this problem domain. Another codebase to look at is http://www.sql-ledger.org/. It uses postgresql. Regards, Tony
On Wednesday 06 February 2008 06:54:36 pm Medi Montaseri wrote: > I suppose instead of AR and AP tables, I can just have one table called > Entry (thanks Joe....) with an attribute indicating AR vs AP. I recommend you not do have only one table for transaction. AR and AP are different animals and each can get very complex quickly. Adding a field that only applies to AP and not AR is a very simple example of what goes wrong. -- John Fabiani