Обсуждение: Memory and/or cache issues?

Good morning,

First the stats:  I'm using PostgreSQL 8.0.1 (I know I should upgrade, cannot due to vendor app. restrictions...), RedHat 9 on a SUN V40Z with 8GB of memory.  I'm using the "out-of-the-box" settings in postgresql.conf.  I've been testing various changes but cannot increase anything to improve performance till I get this memory leak and/or cache issue resolved.

Scenario:  Last night the backup of my largest DB failed (4.4GB in size with 44Million+ tuples) with a memory alloc error.  I'll attach it at the end of this email.  Once we rebooted the box and freed memory all was well, the backup completed fine but as the backup ran and I did a few minor queries all of a sudden 3+GB of memory was used up!  I then performed my nightly vacuumdb with analyze and just about the remaining 4GB of memory was gone!  This was the only application running in the machine at the time.

Questions:
1. I thought using such "smallish" setting as provided would cause postgres to go to swap instead of eating up all the memory?

2. If PostgreSQL is the culprit (which I hope it is not) does postgres release any memory it assumes during processing when that processing is complete?  Such as the backup and vacuumdb I mentioned?

3. Does anyone know of a way to determine if it actually is postgres hogging this memory?  Using TOP I only see my postgres processes using 1% or 2% of memory.  It would be nice to have a tool that showed exactly what is eating up that 7+GB?

4. IS this due to my low setting in postgresql.conf?

Any and all help is welcomed.  For you PostgreSQL purists out there of whom I am fast becoming, your help is needed as my company is considering dumping postgresql in favor of Oracle.....I would much rather figure out the issue then switch DBs.  Here is the error received from the failed backup and the second was noted in my pg_log file:

pg_dump: ERROR:  invalid memory alloc request size 18446744073709551613
pg_dump: SQL command to dump the contents of table "msgstate" failed: PQendcopy() failed.
pg_dump: Error message from server: ERROR:  invalid memory alloc request size 18446744073709551613
pg_dump: The command was: COPY public.msgstate (id, connectormsgid, parentid, orderidfk, clordid, orgclordid, msg, rawmsg, msgtype, "action", sendstate, statechain, fromdest, todest, inserted, op_id, released, reason, outgoing, symbol, qty, price, stopprice, side, data1, data2, data3, data4, data5) TO stdout;

2006-05-04 18:04:58 EDT USER=postgres DB=FIX1 [12427] PORT = [local] ERROR:  invalid memory alloc request size 18446744073709551613

Thank you,
Tim McElroy

"mcelroy, tim" <tim.mcelroy@bostonstock.com> writes:
> pg_dump: ERROR:  invalid memory alloc request size 18446744073709551613

That looks more like a corrupt-data problem than anything directly to do
with having or not having enough memory.

            regards, tom lane

Tom Lane wrote:
> "mcelroy, tim" <tim.mcelroy@bostonstock.com> writes:
> > pg_dump: ERROR:  invalid memory alloc request size 18446744073709551613
>
> That looks more like a corrupt-data problem than anything directly to do
> with having or not having enough memory.

The bit pattern is certainly suspicious, though I'll grant that it
doesn't mean anything.

$ dc
2 o
18446744073709551613 p
1111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111101


--
Alvaro Herrera                                http://www.CommandPrompt.com/
PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support

Thanks Tom.  I thought the same thing and waded through the archives trying various fixes such as vacuum, vacuum full (both with analyze), reindex and still the same issue.  However, once the box was rebooted the backup went smooth and the data was fine.  We have two (2) machines (PROD001 & PROD002) that are "in-sync" and the data matched exactly.  PROD002 was where I had the problem.  I see this on all the postgres installations, no matter what I set the postgresql.conf settings to regarding memory allocation, once postgres starts up 95% of the memory on the box is used.  Is there a way within Linux to 'see' what or who is actually using this memory?  I would love to say it's a hardware thing and that postgres is fine :)

Regards,
Tim

 -----Original Message-----
From:   Tom Lane [mailto:tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us]
Sent:   Friday, May 05, 2006 9:25 AM
To:     mcelroy, tim
Cc:     pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject:        Re: [PERFORM] Memory and/or cache issues?

"mcelroy, tim" <tim.mcelroy@bostonstock.com> writes:
> pg_dump: ERROR:  invalid memory alloc request size 18446744073709551613

That looks more like a corrupt-data problem than anything directly to do
with having or not having enough memory.

                        regards, tom lane

"mcelroy, tim" <tim.mcelroy@bostonstock.com> writes:
> I see this on all the postgres installations, no matter what I
> set the postgresql.conf settings to regarding memory allocation, once
> postgres starts up 95% of the memory on the box is used.  Is there a way
> within Linux to 'see' what or who is actually using this memory?

Probably kernel disk cache.  Are you under the misimpression that unused
memory is a good thing?  If a Unix-ish system *isn't* showing near zero
free memory under load, the kernel is wasting valuable resources.

            regards, tom lane

Are you saying the kernel's disc cache may be getting whacked?  No, I understand that PG should use as much memory as it can and the system as well.  The main problem here is that with almost all the 8GB of RAM 'in use' when I try to do a pg_dump or vacuumdb I run out of memory and the system crashes....

I well understand that unused memory is not a good thing, just that when you have none and can't do the maint work....bad stuff happens.  For example, I just created a benchdb on my DEV box with 1,000,000 tuples.  As this ran the mem in use jumped up 1G and it hasn't gone down?  Once the PG process has finished its task shouldn't it release the memory it used?

Thanks,
Tim

 -----Original Message-----
From:   Tom Lane [mailto:tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us]
Sent:   Friday, May 05, 2006 9:44 AM
To:     mcelroy, tim
Cc:     pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject:        Re: [PERFORM] Memory and/or cache issues?

"mcelroy, tim" <tim.mcelroy@bostonstock.com> writes:
> I see this on all the postgres installations, no matter what I
> set the postgresql.conf settings to regarding memory allocation, once
> postgres starts up 95% of the memory on the box is used.  Is there a way
> within Linux to 'see' what or who is actually using this memory?

Probably kernel disk cache.  Are you under the misimpression that unused
memory is a good thing?  If a Unix-ish system *isn't* showing near zero
free memory under load, the kernel is wasting valuable resources.

                        regards, tom lane

On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 09:57:58AM -0400, mcelroy, tim wrote:
>Are you saying the kernel's disc cache may be getting whacked?  No, I
>understand that PG should use as much memory as it can and the system as
>well.  The main problem here is that with almost all the 8GB of RAM 'in use'
>when I try to do a pg_dump or vacuumdb I run out of memory and the system
>crashes....

You need to be way more specific about what "in use" means. Try pasting
the output of actual commands like "free". The main problem here
according to the output you sent is that your process is trying to
allocate 10billion terabytes of RAM (which ain't gonna work) and dies.
That is not a memory issue.

Mike Stone

-----Original Message-----
From: pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of mcelroy, tim
Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 8:58 AM
To: 'Tom Lane'
Cc: pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: [PERFORM] Memory and/or cache issues?

Are you saying the kernel's disc cache may be getting whacked?  No, I understand that PG should use as much memory as it can and the system as well.  The main problem here is that with almost all the 8GB of RAM 'in use' when I try to do a pg_dump or vacuumdb I run out of memory and the system crashes....

I well understand that unused memory is not a good thing, just that when you have none and can't do the maint work....bad stuff happens.  For example, I just created a benchdb on my DEV box with 1,000,000 tuples.  As this ran the mem in use jumped up 1G and it hasn't gone down?  Once the PG process has finished its task shouldn't it release the memory it used?

Thanks,
Tim

 -----Original Message-----
From:   Tom Lane [mailto:tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us]
Sent:   Friday, May 05, 2006 9:44 AM
To:     mcelroy, tim
Cc:     pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject:        Re: [PERFORM] Memory and/or cache issues?

"mcelroy, tim" <tim.mcelroy@bostonstock.com> writes:
> I see this on all the postgres installations, no matter what I
> set the postgresql.conf settings to regarding memory allocation, once
> postgres starts up 95% of the memory on the box is used.  Is there a way
> within Linux to 'see' what or who is actually using this memory?

Probably kernel disk cache.  Are you under the misimpression that unused
memory is a good thing?  If a Unix-ish system *isn't* showing near zero
free memory under load, the kernel is wasting valuable resources.

                        regards, tom lane

Sorry, been up all night and maybe provided too much information or not the right information and only confused folks, tired I guess.  When I say 'in use' I am referring to the 'used' column.  Thanks all who have responded to this inquiry, I appreciate it.

Here's free from PROD001:
[root@wbibsngwyprod001 kernel]# free -k -t
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:       7643536    6975772     667764          0     165496    5393396
-/+ buffers/cache:    1416880    6226656
Swap:      8185108       5208    8179900
Total:    15828644    6980980    8847664

Here's free from PROD002:
[root@wbibsngwyprod002 root]# free -k -t
             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
Mem:       7643536    6694220     949316          0     161008    4916420
-/+ buffers/cache:    1616792    6026744
Swap:      8185108      11584    8173524
Total:    15828644    6705804    9122840

Tim

 -----Original Message-----
From:   pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org]  On Behalf Of Michael Stone

Sent:   Friday, May 05, 2006 10:24 AM
To:     pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject:        Re: [PERFORM] Memory and/or cache issues?

On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 09:57:58AM -0400, mcelroy, tim wrote:
>Are you saying the kernel's disc cache may be getting whacked?  No, I
>understand that PG should use as much memory as it can and the system as
>well.  The main problem here is that with almost all the 8GB of RAM 'in use'
>when I try to do a pg_dump or vacuumdb I run out of memory and the system
>crashes....

You need to be way more specific about what "in use" means. Try pasting
the output of actual commands like "free". The main problem here
according to the output you sent is that your process is trying to
allocate 10billion terabytes of RAM (which ain't gonna work) and dies.
That is not a memory issue.

Mike Stone

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On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 10:27:10AM -0400, mcelroy, tim wrote:
>Sorry, been up all night and maybe provided too much information or not the
>right information and only confused folks, tired I guess.  When I say 'in
>use' I am referring to the 'used' column.

Which is a mostly irrelevant number.

>Here's free from PROD001:
>[root@wbibsngwyprod001 kernel]# free -k -t
>             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
>Mem:       7643536    6975772     667764          0     165496    5393396
>-/+ buffers/cache:    1416880    6226656
>Swap:      8185108       5208    8179900
>Total:    15828644    6980980    8847664

You've got 1.4G in use, 5.3G of disk cache, 165M of buffers and 667M
free. That doesn't seem unreasonable. If an application needs more
memory the amount of disk cache will decrease. As I said in an earlier
email, the problem is that the application is trying to allocate a bogus
amount of memory, not that you have a memory problem.

Mike Stone

Thanks Michael.  Are you saying the 'used' column is the irrelevant number?  Is the number that is more pertinent is 1416880?  Is that the actual amount of memory in use?  I agree about the allocation of a bogus amount of memory but the issue occurred after-hours when the application(s) were not running.  Or are you saying the app whacked the DB during the day and never recovered?

Tim

 -----Original Message-----
From:   pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org]  On Behalf Of Michael Stone

Sent:   Friday, May 05, 2006 10:41 AM
To:     pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject:        Re: [PERFORM] Memory and/or cache issues?

On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 10:27:10AM -0400, mcelroy, tim wrote:
>Sorry, been up all night and maybe provided too much information or not the
>right information and only confused folks, tired I guess.  When I say 'in
>use' I am referring to the 'used' column.

Which is a mostly irrelevant number.

>Here's free from PROD001:
>[root@wbibsngwyprod001 kernel]# free -k -t
>             total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
>Mem:       7643536    6975772     667764          0     165496    5393396
>-/+ buffers/cache:    1416880    6226656
>Swap:      8185108       5208    8179900
>Total:    15828644    6980980    8847664

You've got 1.4G in use, 5.3G of disk cache, 165M of buffers and 667M
free. That doesn't seem unreasonable. If an application needs more
memory the amount of disk cache will decrease. As I said in an earlier
email, the problem is that the application is trying to allocate a bogus
amount of memory, not that you have a memory problem.

Mike Stone

---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
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Thanks for a great explanation Craig, makes more sense now.

Tim

 -----Original Message-----
From:   Craig A. James [mailto:cjames@modgraph-usa.com]
Sent:   Friday, May 05, 2006 10:51 AM
To:     mcelroy, tim
Cc:     pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject:        Re: [PERFORM] Memory and/or cache issues?

mcelroy, tim wrote:
> Sorry, been up all night and maybe provided too much information or not
> the right information and only confused folks, tired I guess.  When I
> say 'in use' I am referring to the 'used' column.  Thanks all who have
> responded to this inquiry, I appreciate it.
>
> Here's free from PROD001:
> [root@wbibsngwyprod001 kernel]# free -k -t
>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
> Mem:       7643536    6975772     667764          0     165496    5393396
> -/+ buffers/cache:    1416880    6226656
> Swap:      8185108       5208    8179900
> Total:    15828644    6980980    8847664

On Linux (unlike most Unix systems), "used" includes both processes AND the kernel's file-system buffers, which means "used" will almost always be close to 100%.  Starting with a freshly-booted system, you can issue almost any command that scans files, and "used" will go up and STAY at nearly 100% of memory.  For example, reboot and try "tar cf - / >/dev/null" and you'll see the same sort of "used" numbers.

In My Humble Opinion, this is a mistake in Linux.  This confuses just about everyone the first time they see it (including me), because the file-system buffers are dynamic and will be relenquished by the kernel if another process needs memory.  On Unix systems, "used" means, "someone else is using it and you can't have it", which is what most of us really want to know.

Craig

On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 10:45:21AM -0400, mcelroy, tim wrote:
>Thanks Michael.  Are you saying the 'used' column is the irrelevant number?
>Is the number that is more pertinent is 1416880?  Is that the actual amount
>of memory in use?

Yes.

>I agree about the allocation of a bogus amount of memory
>but the issue occurred after-hours when the application(s) were not running.
>Or are you saying the app whacked the DB during the day and never recovered?

I have no idea why the bogus memory allocation happened. If it continues
to happen you might have data corruption on disk. If it never happens
again, it could have been cosmic rays.

Mike Stone

mcelroy, tim wrote:
> Sorry, been up all night and maybe provided too much information or not
> the right information and only confused folks, tired I guess.  When I
> say 'in use' I am referring to the 'used' column.  Thanks all who have
> responded to this inquiry, I appreciate it.
>
> Here's free from PROD001:
> [root@wbibsngwyprod001 kernel]# free -k -t
>              total       used       free     shared    buffers     cached
> Mem:       7643536    6975772     667764          0     165496    5393396
> -/+ buffers/cache:    1416880    6226656
> Swap:      8185108       5208    8179900
> Total:    15828644    6980980    8847664

On Linux (unlike most Unix systems), "used" includes both processes AND the kernel's file-system buffers, which means
"used"will almost always be close to 100%.  Starting with a freshly-booted system, you can issue almost any command
thatscans files, and "used" will go up and STAY at nearly 100% of memory.  For example, reboot and try "tar cf - /
>/dev/null"and you'll see the same sort of "used" numbers. 

In My Humble Opinion, this is a mistake in Linux.  This confuses just about everyone the first time they see it
(includingme), because the file-system buffers are dynamic and will be relenquished by the kernel if another process
needsmemory.  On Unix systems, "used" means, "someone else is using it and you can't have it", which is what most of us
reallywant to know. 

Craig

Michael Stone wrote:
> On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 10:45:21AM -0400, mcelroy, tim wrote:
>> Thanks Michael.  Are you saying the 'used' column is the irrelevant
>> number?
>> Is the number that is more pertinent is 1416880?  Is that the actual
>> amount
>> of memory in use?
>
> Yes.
>
>> I agree about the allocation of a bogus amount of memory
>> but the issue occurred after-hours when the application(s) were not
>> running.
>> Or are you saying the app whacked the DB during the day and never
>> recovered?
>
> I have no idea why the bogus memory allocation happened. If it continues
> to happen you might have data corruption on disk. If it never happens
> again, it could have been cosmic rays.
>
> Mike Stone

have you configured your shared memory settings right?
if postgres tries to allocate more memory (because of settings enable
it) than the kernel itself is configured for, then you will see similar
error messages.

--
Üdvözlettel,
Gábriel Ákos
-=E-Mail :akos.gabriel@i-logic.hu|Web:  http://www.i-logic.hu=-
-=Tel/fax:+3612367353            |Mobil:+36209278894            =-

On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 06:33:33PM +0200, Gábriel Ákos wrote:
>if postgres tries to allocate more memory (because of settings enable
>it) than the kernel itself is configured for, then you will see similar
>error messages.

If you're talking about the shared memory limits, postgres will bomb out
fairly quickly in that case, IIRC.

Mike Stone

On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 10:40:33AM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> You've got 1.4G in use, 5.3G of disk cache, 165M of buffers and 667M
> free. That doesn't seem unreasonable. If an application needs more

Actually, it indiciates a bunch of memory not being used, but IIRC Tim's
database is approximately 4G in size, so the 5.3G of disk cache makes
sense if the system was recently rebooted.
--
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant      jnasby@pervasive.com
Pervasive Software      http://pervasive.com    work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf       cell: 512-569-9461

On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 01:09:53PM -0400, Michael Stone wrote:
> On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 06:33:33PM +0200, G?briel ?kos wrote:
> >if postgres tries to allocate more memory (because of settings enable
> >it) than the kernel itself is configured for, then you will see similar
> >error messages.
>
> If you're talking about the shared memory limits, postgres will bomb out
> fairly quickly in that case, IIRC.

More importantly I don't think it would result in trying to allocate 10
TB or whatever that huge number was.
--
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant      jnasby@pervasive.com
Pervasive Software      http://pervasive.com    work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf       cell: 512-569-9461

On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 10:27:10AM -0400, mcelroy, tim wrote:
> Sorry, been up all night and maybe provided too much information or not the

Do you have any budget for support or training, either from the company
selling you the app or a company that provides PostgreSQL support? I
suspect some money invested there would result in a lot less
frustration. It'd also certainly be cheaper than switching to Oracle.
--
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant      jnasby@pervasive.com
Pervasive Software      http://pervasive.com    work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf       cell: 512-569-9461

2006-05-04 18:04:58 EDT USER=postgres DB=FIX1 [12427] PORT = [local] ERROR:  invalid memory alloc request size 18446744073709551613

Thank you again to all who have offered advice, suggestions, tips and offers of support/training.  From the gist of some of the latter posts I must come off as a rank rookie, lol.  Deservedly so as I've only been working with postgres for 7 months and in the linux/unix world a year or so.  My background is Stratus SysAdmin (which I still do in addition to DBA) so the transition is an on-going process.

That said, at this time I'll put the thread to rest as my company just doubled the memory to 16GB, isn't that how it always works out anyway ;)  I'll also be moving the new postgresql.conf settings that were worked out with the patient help of Jim Nasby, thanks again Jim.  The DEV box I put those on has shown some improvement.  As far as outside support and training, thank you but no.  Probably doesn't show but I did attend a week long PostgreSQL boot camp in January (which I found aimed more to the development side than DBA by the way), but there is no better way to learn and understand better than actual day-to-day working experience.

Thank you,
Tim McElroy

 -----Original Message-----
From:   Jim C. Nasby [mailto:jnasby@pervasive.com]
Sent:   Friday, May 05, 2006 8:35 PM
To:     mcelroy, tim
Cc:     'Michael Stone'; pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject:        Re: [PERFORM] Memory and/or cache issues?

On Fri, May 05, 2006 at 10:27:10AM -0400, mcelroy, tim wrote:
> Sorry, been up all night and maybe provided too much information or not the

Do you have any budget for support or training, either from the company
selling you the app or a company that provides PostgreSQL support? I
suspect some money invested there would result in a lot less
frustration. It'd also certainly be cheaper than switching to Oracle.
--
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant      jnasby@pervasive.com
Pervasive Software      http://pervasive.com    work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf       cell: 512-569-9461

On May 6, 2006, at 10:53 AM, mcelroy, tim wrote:

> development side than DBA by the way), but there is no better way
> to learn
> and understand better than actual day-to-day working experience.

Yeah, I prefer my surgeons to work this way too.  training is for the
birds.

On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 11:06:42AM -0400, Vivek Khera wrote:
>
> On May 6, 2006, at 10:53 AM, mcelroy, tim wrote:
>
> >development side than DBA by the way), but there is no better way
> >to learn
> >and understand better than actual day-to-day working experience.
>
> Yeah, I prefer my surgeons to work this way too.  training is for the
> birds.

I think you read too quickly past the part where Tim said he'd taking a
week-long training class.
--
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant      jnasby@pervasive.com
Pervasive Software      http://pervasive.com    work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf       cell: 512-569-9461

On May 8, 2006, at 1:30 PM, Jim C. Nasby wrote:

>> Yeah, I prefer my surgeons to work this way too.  training is for the
>> birds.
>
> I think you read too quickly past the part where Tim said he'd
> taking a
> week-long training class.

s/training/apprenticeship/g;

On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 03:38:23PM -0400, Vivek Khera wrote:
>On May 8, 2006, at 1:30 PM, Jim C. Nasby wrote:
>>>Yeah, I prefer my surgeons to work this way too.  training is for the
>>>birds.
>>
>>I think you read too quickly past the part where Tim said he'd
>>taking a
>>week-long training class.
>
>s/training/apprenticeship/g;

Of course, the original poster did say that hands-on was the best way to
learn. What is apprenticeship but a combination of training and
experience. Are you just sniping for fun?

Mike Stone

Ok, thank you all again for your help in this matter.  Yes, Michael I (the original poster) did say or imply I guess is a better word for it that a combo of training and hands-on is the best way for one to learn PostgreSQL or just about anything for that matter.  Thank you for recognizing the true intention of my statements.

One does need some sort of basis from which to grow.  I will say that nothing can replace the hands-on real-world training one can get in this business as it is the best way to learn and remember.  Just my opinion.  For example, I stated I was a SysAdmin for 20 years.  I was then thrust into the Oracle world as a DBA about 2 years ago while still maintaining my SysAdmin responsibilities.  I have yet to receive any formal Oracle training and have had to learn that on my own via, manuals, Google searches and begging the Oracle Database Architect here for assistance.  However, with PostgreSQL I initially started down the very same track but was fortunate enough to receive the ok for that week long PG boot camp.  Although I didn't take all that much away from the boot camp it did provide an excellent base from which I continue to grow as a PG DBA and it has helped me to understand postgres a lot easier and quicker than Oracle.

So please, lets just not throw emails back-n-forth amongst the group.  Since joining I have found the group as a whole to be a great resource of information and PG knowledge and do not want us to get a testy with each other over something I said or someone's interpretation of what I said.  Case closed.

BTW - I am still working towards getting the knowledge out here about what I learned form the posts, mainly that the buffers/cache row of information from the free command is the one we need most be concerned with.

Thank you,
Tim McElroy

 -----Original Message-----
From:   pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-performance-owner@postgresql.org]  On Behalf Of Michael Stone

Sent:   Monday, May 08, 2006 5:17 PM
To:     pgsql-performance@postgresql.org
Subject:        Re: [PERFORM] Memory and/or cache issues?

On Mon, May 08, 2006 at 03:38:23PM -0400, Vivek Khera wrote:
>On May 8, 2006, at 1:30 PM, Jim C. Nasby wrote:
>>>Yeah, I prefer my surgeons to work this way too.  training is for the
>>>birds.
>>
>>I think you read too quickly past the part where Tim said he'd 
>>taking a
>>week-long training class.
>
>s/training/apprenticeship/g;

Of course, the original poster did say that hands-on was the best way to
learn. What is apprenticeship but a combination of training and
experience. Are you just sniping for fun?

Mike Stone

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TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster