Обсуждение: Where to Host Project
Howdy, Not *exactly* hackers-related, but I wanted to get a feel for this from those who are likely to use project hosting, and to minimize the chances of a flame war. Right now I have pgTAP on pgFoundry, which is okay, though it appears to be largely unmaintained. PostgreSQL module projects seem to mainly just flounder there. So I'm wondering, given the various discussions of PostgreSQL module hosting in the past, where would be a good place to put a PostgreSQL module project? The things I would like to have are: * SVN or git hosting (I've not used git, but would try it) * Ability to hand out commit bits to other folks * A projecthome page and/or wiki * Good search results rankings in Google et al. * Mail lists * Bug tracking * Release management Overall, it should be easy to find my project, and easy to download it and build it for PostgreSQL. I've had the following suggestions for places to try, in addition to pgFoundry: * github * Google Code * LaunchPad * WebFaction I've not used any of these. So my question is, what do you prefer for third-party PostgreSQL modules. Where is it that the the PostgreSQL community is likely to aggregate with its modules? Thanks! David
On Thu, 18 Sep 2008 11:22:14 -0700 "David E. Wheeler" <david@kineticode.com> wrote: > * LaunchPad ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Is backed by PostgreSQL. It is the only logical choice :). Seriously though it is a good service. Joshua D. Drake -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
On Sep 18, 2008, at 11:27, Joshua Drake wrote: >> * LaunchPad > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Is backed by PostgreSQL. It is the only logical choice :). Seriously > though it is a good service. Looks pretty nice, though it doesn't have project home pages. Having just created one for pgTAP on pgFoundry, I'd like to keep it. :-) I posted a question about this to see if it's in the plans: https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/45640 Best, David
David, > Right now I have pgTAP on pgFoundry, which is okay, though it appears > to be largely unmaintained. PostgreSQL module projects seem to mainly > just flounder there. Yeah. We had huge plans for pgFoundry, but got burned out by a combination of GForge problems and Hub.org problems -- I know I put in over 150 hours just making it run. At this point, nobody wants to deal with it anymore. -- --Josh Josh Berkus PostgreSQL San Francisco
On Thursday 18 September 2008 14:22:14 David E. Wheeler wrote:
> Howdy,
>
> Not *exactly* hackers-related, but I wanted to get a feel for this
> from those who are likely to use project hosting, and to minimize the
> chances of a flame war.
>
> Right now I have pgTAP on pgFoundry, which is okay, though it appears
> to be largely unmaintained. PostgreSQL module projects seem to mainly
> just flounder there.
>
> So I'm wondering, given the various discussions of PostgreSQL module
> hosting in the past, where would be a good place to put a PostgreSQL
> module project? The things I would like to have are:
>
> * SVN or git hosting (I've not used git, but would try it)
> * Ability to hand out commit bits to other folks
> * A project home page and/or wiki
> * Good search results rankings in Google et al.
> * Mail lists
> * Bug tracking
> * Release management
>
> Overall, it should be easy to find my project, and easy to download it
> and build it for PostgreSQL. I've had the following suggestions for
> places to try, in addition to pgFoundry:
>
my .02, since i have used most of these...
> * github
does not offer mailing lists or bug tracking, and the release management is
odd
> * Google Code
does not offer mailing lists
> * LaunchPad
does not offer svn or git, and i think they dont offer a home page service
> * WebFaction
>
dont really know anything about these guys, but i thought they did web
hosting, not project hosting.
Just for the record, you have overlooked SourceForge. While it appears to
fallen out of favor with the open source crowd, it is the one service that
does provide everything you wanted.
> I've not used any of these. So my question is, what do you prefer for
> third-party PostgreSQL modules. Where is it that the the PostgreSQL
> community is likely to aggregate with its modules?
>
I've been saying for some time now we need to get out of the project hosting
service, and get into the project directory service. What we really want is
to make it easy for people to find postgresql related projects, regardless of
where they are.
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
David E. Wheeler wrote: > So I'm wondering, given the various discussions of PostgreSQL module > hosting in the past, where would be a good place to put a PostgreSQL > module project? The things I would like to have are: > > * SVN or git hosting (I've not used git, but would try it) > * Ability to hand out commit bits to other folks > * A project home page and/or wiki > * Good search results rankings in Google et al. > * Mail lists > * Bug tracking > * Release management Why not host the code on (say) GitHub, and the rest of the stuff on pgFoundry? -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
Le jeudi 18 septembre 2008, David E. Wheeler a écrit : > So I'm wondering, given the various discussions of PostgreSQL module > hosting in the past, where would be a good place to put a PostgreSQL > module project? The things I would like to have are: > > * SVN or git hosting (I've not used git, but would try it) > * Ability to hand out commit bits to other folks > * A project home page and/or wiki > * Good search results rankings in Google et al. > * Mail lists > * Bug tracking > * Release management There's a french non-profit team offering those: http://tuxfamily.org/en/main You can even take their open source hosting facility software and offer your own services based on it, and/or extend their perl code to add new features. I tried to talk pgfoundry admins into this solution in the past, but I understand maintaining pgfoundry is a PITA. HTP, -- dim
David E. Wheeler napsal(a): > Howdy, > Overall, it should be easy to find my project, and easy to download it > and build it for PostgreSQL. I've had the following suggestions for > places to try, in addition to pgFoundry: > > * github > * Google Code > * LaunchPad > * WebFaction > You can try http://kenai.com/ Zdenek -- Zdenek Kotala Sun Microsystems Prague, Czech Republic http://sun.com/postgresql
On Sep 18, 2008, at 18:43, Robert Treat wrote: >> * Google Code > > does not offer mailing lists I get mail for the test-more project there. It's through Google Groups, which is a little weird, but works. >> * LaunchPad > > does not offer svn or git, and i think they dont offer a home page > service It uses Bazaar. WTF is that? I've never heard of it. >> * WebFaction > > dont really know anything about these guys, but i thought they did web > hosting, not project hosting. Yeah, looks that way. > Just for the record, you have overlooked SourceForge. While it > appears to > fallen out of favor with the open source crowd, it is the one > service that > does provide everything you wanted. Good point. I've not used it in years. Last time I looked the mail archives still sucked pretty hard. Otherwise, now that it has SVN, and if it has eliminated the performance problems, it might just do the trick. > I've been saying for some time now we need to get out of the project > hosting > service, and get into the project directory service. What we really > want is > to make it easy for people to find postgresql related projects, > regardless of > where they are. That's an excellent idea. Do you have a plan for this? Thanks, David
On Sep 18, 2008, at 19:01, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Why not host the code on (say) GitHub, and the rest of the stuff on > pgFoundry? That's kind of what I'm doing now. But I'm wondering if I should bother with pgFoundry at all. It seems pretty dead (see Josh Berkus's reply). Best, David
On Sep 19, 2008, at 01:25, Dimitri Fontaine wrote: > There's a french non-profit team offering those: > http://tuxfamily.org/en/main > > You can even take their open source hosting facility software and > offer your > own services based on it, and/or extend their perl code to add new > features. > I tried to talk pgfoundry admins into this solution in the past, but I > understand maintaining pgfoundry is a PITA. Looks pretty interesting. I've never heard of it. Anyone else have experience with it? Thanks, David
On Fri, 19 Sep 2008 11:05:36 -0700 "David E. Wheeler" <david@kineticode.com> wrote: > >> * LaunchPad > > > > does not offer svn or git, and i think they dont offer a home page > > service > > It uses Bazaar. WTF is that? I've never heard of it. Another git/mecurial/monotone style SCM. It does however allow interaction with things like remote git and svn repos :) Joshua D. Drake -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/ Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
On Friday 19 September 2008 14:05:36 David E. Wheeler wrote: > On Sep 18, 2008, at 18:43, Robert Treat wrote: > >> * Google Code > > > > does not offer mailing lists > > I get mail for the test-more project there. It's through Google > Groups, which is a little weird, but works. > I didn't think there was any integration between those two services, but maybe there is (ie. sign up for an account on google code and you have a google groups login as well). Otherwise google groups can be considered a solution for githubs lack of mailing lists as well. (incidentally, github has some neat automated webhooks for its git repos, like automatically sending email to a mailing list, or to a basecamp site, or dozens of other places. sure this can be done with other services, but github makes it very easy) > >> * LaunchPad > > > > does not offer svn or git, and i think they dont offer a home page > > service > > It uses Bazaar. WTF is that? I've never heard of it. it is another distributed version control system, similar to git/monotone/etc... very popular in the mysql crowd (and i suppose gaining more popularity in the ubuntu crowd as well) > > Just for the record, you have overlooked SourceForge. While it > > appears to > > fallen out of favor with the open source crowd, it is the one > > service that > > does provide everything you wanted. > > Good point. I've not used it in years. Last time I looked the mail > archives still sucked pretty hard. Otherwise, now that it has SVN, and > if it has eliminated the performance problems, it might just do the > trick. > Performance is nothing special, and its mail archive search interface is still pretty crappy, but thats what local mail is for :-) I think the key to sourceforge is its complete and it does work pretty well most of the time. > > I've been saying for some time now we need to get out of the project > > hosting > > service, and get into the project directory service. What we really > > want is > > to make it easy for people to find postgresql related projects, > > regardless of > > where they are. > > That's an excellent idea. Do you have a plan for this? > We already have a product catalog on postgresql.org http://www.postgresql.org/download/product-categories, so I think the plan would be something like 1)no new projects on pgfoundry 2) announce 6 months to move your project off of pgfoundry, and 3) shut it down. The downside is this causes upheavel for projects currently on pgfoundry, breaks all kinds of links, and generally leads to similar problems we had when we shut down gborg, but it might be best in the long run. Still, I dont think most people have bought into the idea that we shouldn't be hosting projects anymore, so I haven't put much effort into this. -- Robert Treat Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
David E. Wheeler wrote: > On Sep 18, 2008, at 19:01, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > >> Why not host the code on (say) GitHub, and the rest of the stuff on >> pgFoundry? > > That's kind of what I'm doing now. But I'm wondering if I should > bother with pgFoundry at all. It seems pretty dead (see Josh Berkus's > reply). > > He didn't say it was dead, nor is it, not remotely. You are badly misinterpreting his words here. cheers andrew
What about Assembla? http://assembla.com/ []'s - Walter
> > That's kind of what I'm doing now. But I'm wondering if I should > > bother with pgFoundry at all. It seems pretty dead (see Josh Berkus's > > reply). Actually, pgFoundry remains extremely popular. Currently, we're getting an average of 2-3 new projects a week. The issue with pgFoundry is that it's based on a hacked version of the GForge code, which had legacy problems to begin with and is now no longer upgradable. And while lots of people want to complain about it, nobody wants to put in the 15-25 hours of work required to fix it up so that it supports SVN and code snippets (including me). However, I agree with Robert that maintaining a collab site is, today, a bad use of our limited administration resources, which could be better turned to developing directory and build services (for "kitchen sink" packages). Realistically, though, shutting down pgFoundry might take as much work as fixing it. -- --Josh Josh Berkus PostgreSQL San Francisco
Josh Berkus wrote: >>> That's kind of what I'm doing now. But I'm wondering if I should >>> bother with pgFoundry at all. It seems pretty dead (see Josh Berkus's >>> reply). >>> > > Actually, pgFoundry remains extremely popular. Currently, we're getting an > average of 2-3 new projects a week. > > The issue with pgFoundry is that it's based on a hacked version of the > GForge code, which had legacy problems to begin with and is now no longer > upgradable. And while lots of people want to complain about it, nobody > wants to put in the 15-25 hours of work required to fix it up so that it > supports SVN and code snippets (including me). > I'd be willing to investigate and have a go at this. Until now I haven't heard that we were in such a situation with pgFoundry. Does it even have a roadmap for future work? It is a problem that GForge development in general appears to have slowed/stalled for a couple of years. There have been some recent developments but I'm not convinced it will get back to the same development rate as Tim Prudue it working on the AS version now. I personally had such high hopes for pgfoundry as the GBorg site was not that great. But it seems that we haven't been able to make the pgfoundry dream a reality. > However, I agree with Robert that maintaining a collab site is, today, a > bad use of our limited administration resources, which could be better > turned to developing directory and build services (for "kitchen sink" > packages). Realistically, though, shutting down pgFoundry might take as > much work as fixing it. > Currently it's managed by core developers. I'm not convinced it's the best use of their time either. But others in the community may be at their best supporting something like pgFoundry. But whether it's safe to hand out that level of clearance to other community members is the decision that has to be made. So if somebody is interesting in contacting me about moving pgfoundry forward, please do so. Regards Russell Smith
On Fri, Sep 19, 2008 at 10:38 PM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > >> > That's kind of what I'm doing now. But I'm wondering if I should >> > bother with pgFoundry at all. It seems pretty dead (see Josh Berkus's >> > reply). > > Actually, pgFoundry remains extremely popular. Currently, we're getting an > average of 2-3 new projects a week. > > The issue with pgFoundry is that it's based on a hacked version of the > GForge code, which had legacy problems to begin with and is now no longer > upgradable. And while lots of people want to complain about it, nobody > wants to put in the 15-25 hours of work required to fix it up so that it > supports SVN and code snippets (including me). Well that's not strictly true - I persuaded one of the GForge developers to work on the upgrade. As far as I'm aware, we're still waiting for the hardware/OS platform to be sorted out after some initial problems. I suspect JD will tell me something different though - that being the case, perhaps we can work out the issues and get on with the upgrade. -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
Dave Page wrote: > Well that's not strictly true - I persuaded one of the GForge > developers to work on the upgrade. As far as I'm aware, we're still > waiting for the hardware/OS platform to be sorted out after some > initial problems. I suspect JD will tell me something different though > - that being the case, perhaps we can work out the issues and get on > with the upgrade. The machine is ready to go and as far as I know even has a jail. Stefan would know more. Joshua D. Drake >
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: > Dave Page wrote: > >> Well that's not strictly true - I persuaded one of the GForge >> developers to work on the upgrade. As far as I'm aware, we're still >> waiting for the hardware/OS platform to be sorted out after some >> initial problems. I suspect JD will tell me something different though >> - that being the case, perhaps we can work out the issues and get on >> with the upgrade. > > The machine is ready to go and as far as I know even has a jail. Stefan > would know more. OK, cool. Stefan; what's your take on where we're at? -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Hi, Le 20 sept. 08 à 09:42, Dave Page a écrit : > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Joshua D. Drake > <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: >> Dave Page wrote: >> >>> Well that's not strictly true - I persuaded one of the GForge >>> developers to work on the upgrade. As far as I'm aware, we're still >>> waiting for the hardware/OS platform to be sorted out after some >>> initial problems. I suspect JD will tell me something different >>> though >>> - that being the case, perhaps we can work out the issues and get on >>> with the upgrade. I suppose the plan is to upgrade to a newer GForge. Is it still time to propose something completely different? I have real good feedbacks about VHFFS, a perl based clean-room re-implementation of it, if you want to see it this way. http://www.vhffs.org/wiki/index.php http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHFFS (easy to grasp keywords) Hope this helps, regards, - -- dim -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAkjVUqcACgkQlBXRlnbh1bnuWwCgsWMSrYACh2lOt+xbeqa6DCbO j7AAnifgloNY7ldaA+54S9HLlLxqBvuC =LoLv -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 8:44 PM, Dimitri Fontaine <dfontaine@hi-media.com> wrote: > I suppose the plan is to upgrade to a newer GForge. Is it still time to > propose something completely different? I have real good feedbacks about > VHFFS, a perl based clean-room re-implementation of it, if you want to see > it this way. > http://www.vhffs.org/wiki/index.php > http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHFFS (easy to grasp keywords) Certainly not an idea I want to entertain - migrating to a new project site would be a massive undertaking, and liable to drag on for far longer than any of us want. It took long enough to migrate from GBorg :-( -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
Dave Page wrote: > On Sat, Sep 20, 2008 at 8:37 AM, Joshua D. Drake <jd@commandprompt.com> wrote: >> Dave Page wrote: >> >>> Well that's not strictly true - I persuaded one of the GForge >>> developers to work on the upgrade. As far as I'm aware, we're still >>> waiting for the hardware/OS platform to be sorted out after some >>> initial problems. I suspect JD will tell me something different though >>> - that being the case, perhaps we can work out the issues and get on >>> with the upgrade. >> The machine is ready to go and as far as I know even has a jail. Stefan >> would know more. > > OK, cool. Stefan; what's your take on where we're at? yeah there is a box and a jail I set up a while ago but for various reasons the actual migration (planning and testing) never happened. I'm still prepared to handle the required sysadmin level work but I don't have time for anything more fancy right now. Stefan
On Sep 22, 2008, at 10:08, Stefan Kaltenbrunner wrote: >>> The machine is ready to go and as far as I know even has a jail. >>> Stefan >>> would know more. >> OK, cool. Stefan; what's your take on where we're at? > > yeah there is a box and a jail I set up a while ago but for various > reasons the actual migration (planning and testing) never happened. > I'm still prepared to handle the required sysadmin level work but I > don't have time for anything more fancy right now. If this upgrade happens, and I can use SVN with pgFoundry, that's exactly where I'll stay. That would make me happy. Whether or not it was a good idea to get into the hosting business, since we do, as a community, have a hosting platform, it behooves us to try to keep it up-to-date. I'd be willing to give a bit of time for this. But I do agree with Robert that we *should* get into the indexing business. This is CPAN's secret: It doesn't host anything, but provides a distributed index of Perl modules. What would be useful is to make it easy for people to add their stuff to the index; and if that could be automated with pgFoundry, so much the better for those who host there. My $0.02. Thanks for the discussion, folks. Best, David
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 19:08:16 +0200 Stefan Kaltenbrunner <stefan@kaltenbrunner.cc> wrote: > > OK, cool. Stefan; what's your take on where we're at? > > yeah there is a box and a jail I set up a while ago but for various > reasons the actual migration (planning and testing) never happened. > I'm still prepared to handle the required sysadmin level work but I > don't have time for anything more fancy right now. I think one problem we have right now, is nobody knows what it is going to take. I would expect that our current version is sufficiently old enough to cause some migration pain? I know we have two members willing to help that are not Stefan and I. Which is good, but this doesn't appear to be a small project. Joshua D. Drake > > > > Stefan > -- The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/ PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/ United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/