Обсуждение: Standalone Windows Installation

Hi.

I want to use Postgres without installation. The problem is the
dependencies on the Visual C dll (msvcrt).
As far as I know it would be possible to include a manifest file (only
for libpq.dll?) and bundle the dlls from c:\windows\WinSxS into the bin
directory of Postgres.
Is this correct? Does anybody have (tested) such a manifest file?

Jörn

Jörn Heid wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I want to use Postgres without installation. The problem is the
> dependencies on the Visual C dll (msvcrt).
> As far as I know it would be possible to include a manifest file (only
> for libpq.dll?) and bundle the dlls from c:\windows\WinSxS into the bin
> directory of Postgres.

That should work fine according to my understanding of the Windows
dynamic linker's behavour. I'm actually not even sure you'll need the
manifest, in that IIRC it should be embedded in the DLL if it was built
with a recent VC++.

You should also be able to bundle a private copy of the required VC++
runtime in the bin directory; it does not need to be installed in
WinSxS. I've done this with small Windows binaries I've distributed at
various points with no issues.

If you do this, make sure you do NOT put the PostgreSQL bin directory on
the PATH, as you may confuse any parallel installation of the official
PostgreSQL distribution. You should also use a different port to the
default, and if practical not listen on non-loopback TCP/IP interfaces.

--
Craig Ringer

Jörn Heid wrote:
> Hi.
>
> I want to use Postgres without installation. The problem is the
> dependencies on the Visual C dll (msvcrt).
> As far as I know it would be possible to include a manifest file (only
> for libpq.dll?) and bundle the dlls from c:\windows\WinSxS into the
> bin directory of Postgres.
> Is this correct? Does anybody have (tested) such a manifest file?
>
> Jörn
You just need to copy the contents of the redist/x86 under the
%VCINSTALLDIR% in your distribution directory, where all
dlls/executables are present.
VCINSTALLDIR should be similar to C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual
Studio 8\VC, depending on your Visual Studio Installation.
This directory contains:
* Microsoft.VCxx.CRT
* Microsoft.VCxx.ATL
..., etc

No need to copy the c:\windows\WinSxS contents.

Hope this should solve your problem.

Regards,
Ashesh

Thanks Ashesh for your answer.

I will try to do so although I first have to install VC (or can I just
use the directories from WinSxS?). Is there another possibility without
setting an environment variable? Think of the simplest distribution of
just copying files (e.g. to a USB stick) and "pg_ctrl.exe start" will
work out of the box...

Cheers,
Jörn

Ashesh D Vashi schrieb:
> Jörn Heid wrote:
>> Hi.
>>
>> I want to use Postgres without installation. The problem is the
>> dependencies on the Visual C dll (msvcrt).
>> As far as I know it would be possible to include a manifest file
>> (only for libpq.dll?) and bundle the dlls from c:\windows\WinSxS into
>> the bin directory of Postgres.
>> Is this correct? Does anybody have (tested) such a manifest file?
>>
>> Jörn
> You just need to copy the contents of the redist/x86 under the
> %VCINSTALLDIR% in your distribution directory, where all
> dlls/executables are present.
> VCINSTALLDIR should be similar to C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual
> Studio 8\VC, depending on your Visual Studio Installation.
> This directory contains:
> * Microsoft.VCxx.CRT
> * Microsoft.VCxx.ATL
> ..., etc
>
> No need to copy the c:\windows\WinSxS contents.
>
> Hope this should solve your problem.
>
> Regards,
> Ashesh
>

--
Dipl.-Inform. Med. Jörn Heid

Zentrum für virtuelle Patienten / Centre for Virtual Patients
Universitätsklinikum Heidelberg
Hygiene-Institut
Im Neuenheimer Feld 324
69120 Heidelberg

Tel.:  +49-(0)7131-504-481
Fax:   +49-(0)7131-252-470

Jörn Heid wrote:
> Thanks Ashesh for your answer.
>
> I will try to do so although I first have to install VC (or can I just
> use the directories from WinSxS?). Is there another possibility
> without setting an environment variable? Think of the simplest
> distribution of just copying files (e.g. to a USB stick) and
> "pg_ctrl.exe start" will work out of the box...
I thought - you have built the binaries from sources. So, I was talking
about VC installation.
My solution should work perfectly, when you have built the binaries from
sources using Visual Studio.
Redistribution (copying) of these binaries should work anywhere. (You
may need to add dependent dll(s) in the distribution package. i.e. ssl,
krb5)

Regards,
Ashesh

EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com

>
> Cheers,
> Jörn
>
> Ashesh D Vashi schrieb:
>> Jörn Heid wrote:
>>> Hi.
>>>
>>> I want to use Postgres without installation. The problem is the
>>> dependencies on the Visual C dll (msvcrt).
>>> As far as I know it would be possible to include a manifest file
>>> (only for libpq.dll?) and bundle the dlls from c:\windows\WinSxS
>>> into the bin directory of Postgres.
>>> Is this correct? Does anybody have (tested) such a manifest file?
>>>
>>> Jörn
>> You just need to copy the contents of the redist/x86 under the
>> %VCINSTALLDIR% in your distribution directory, where all
>> dlls/executables are present.
>> VCINSTALLDIR should be similar to C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual
>> Studio 8\VC, depending on your Visual Studio Installation.
>> This directory contains:
>> * Microsoft.VCxx.CRT
>> * Microsoft.VCxx.ATL
>> ..., etc
>>
>> No need to copy the c:\windows\WinSxS contents.
>>
>> Hope this should solve your problem.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ashesh
>>
>

Okay, that's a misunderstanding.
I don't want to build it from the sources. I want to take the official
pre-built "postgres without installer" package and put it on a Windows
machine to make it work. That doesn't work (while it should IMHO)
because of the dependencies. So I just want to add some
manifest/folders/dlls to make it work with the standard binaries. I hope
it would be possible as I don't want to rebuild all on each postgres update.

Jörn

Ashesh D Vashi schrieb:
> Jörn Heid wrote:
>> Thanks Ashesh for your answer.
>>
>> I will try to do so although I first have to install VC (or can I
>> just use the directories from WinSxS?). Is there another possibility
>> without setting an environment variable? Think of the simplest
>> distribution of just copying files (e.g. to a USB stick) and
>> "pg_ctrl.exe start" will work out of the box...
> I thought - you have built the binaries from sources. So, I was
> talking about VC installation.
> My solution should work perfectly, when you have built the binaries
> from sources using Visual Studio.
> Redistribution (copying) of these binaries should work anywhere. (You
> may need to add dependent dll(s) in the distribution package. i.e.
> ssl, krb5)
>
> Regards,
> Ashesh
>
> EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Jörn
>>
>> Ashesh D Vashi schrieb:
>>> Jörn Heid wrote:
>>>> Hi.
>>>>
>>>> I want to use Postgres without installation. The problem is the
>>>> dependencies on the Visual C dll (msvcrt).
>>>> As far as I know it would be possible to include a manifest file
>>>> (only for libpq.dll?) and bundle the dlls from c:\windows\WinSxS
>>>> into the bin directory of Postgres.
>>>> Is this correct? Does anybody have (tested) such a manifest file?
>>>>
>>>> Jörn
>>> You just need to copy the contents of the redist/x86 under the
>>> %VCINSTALLDIR% in your distribution directory, where all
>>> dlls/executables are present.
>>> VCINSTALLDIR should be similar to C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual
>>> Studio 8\VC, depending on your Visual Studio Installation.
>>> This directory contains:
>>> * Microsoft.VCxx.CRT
>>> * Microsoft.VCxx.ATL
>>> ..., etc
>>>
>>> No need to copy the c:\windows\WinSxS contents.
>>>
>>> Hope this should solve your problem.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Ashesh
>>>
>>
>

--
Dipl.-Inform. Med. Jörn Heid

Zentrum für virtuelle Patienten / Centre for Virtual Patients
Universitätsklinikum Heidelberg
Hygiene-Institut
Im Neuenheimer Feld 324
69120 Heidelberg

Tel.:  +49-(0)7131-504-481
Fax:   +49-(0)7131-252-470

heid@medicase.de    http://www.medicase.de

So, nobody knows how to make the official "Postgres without Installer"
to work with a normal Windows installation?

Jörn

Jörn Heid schrieb:
> Okay, that's a misunderstanding.
> I don't want to build it from the sources. I want to take the official
> pre-built "postgres without installer" package and put it on a Windows
> machine to make it work. That doesn't work (while it should IMHO)
> because of the dependencies. So I just want to add some
> manifest/folders/dlls to make it work with the standard binaries. I
> hope it would be possible as I don't want to rebuild all on each
> postgres update.
>
> Jörn
>
> Ashesh D Vashi schrieb:
>> Jörn Heid wrote:
>>> Thanks Ashesh for your answer.
>>>
>>> I will try to do so although I first have to install VC (or can I
>>> just use the directories from WinSxS?). Is there another possibility
>>> without setting an environment variable? Think of the simplest
>>> distribution of just copying files (e.g. to a USB stick) and
>>> "pg_ctrl.exe start" will work out of the box...
>> I thought - you have built the binaries from sources. So, I was
>> talking about VC installation.
>> My solution should work perfectly, when you have built the binaries
>> from sources using Visual Studio.
>> Redistribution (copying) of these binaries should work anywhere. (You
>> may need to add dependent dll(s) in the distribution package. i.e.
>> ssl, krb5)
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ashesh
>>
>> EnterpriseDB: http://www.enterprisedb.com
>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jörn
>>>
>>> Ashesh D Vashi schrieb:
>>>> Jörn Heid wrote:
>>>>> Hi.
>>>>>
>>>>> I want to use Postgres without installation. The problem is the
>>>>> dependencies on the Visual C dll (msvcrt).
>>>>> As far as I know it would be possible to include a manifest file
>>>>> (only for libpq.dll?) and bundle the dlls from c:\windows\WinSxS
>>>>> into the bin directory of Postgres.
>>>>> Is this correct? Does anybody have (tested) such a manifest file?
>>>>>
>>>>> Jörn
>>>> You just need to copy the contents of the redist/x86 under the
>>>> %VCINSTALLDIR% in your distribution directory, where all
>>>> dlls/executables are present.
>>>> VCINSTALLDIR should be similar to C:\Program Files\Microsoft Visual
>>>> Studio 8\VC, depending on your Visual Studio Installation.
>>>> This directory contains:
>>>> * Microsoft.VCxx.CRT
>>>> * Microsoft.VCxx.ATL
>>>> ..., etc
>>>>
>>>> No need to copy the c:\windows\WinSxS contents.
>>>>
>>>> Hope this should solve your problem.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Ashesh

On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:02:27 +0200
Jörn Heid <heid@hs-heilbronn.de> wrote:

> So, nobody knows how to make the official "Postgres without
> Installer" to work with a normal Windows installation?

http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs.FAQ_MINGW.html

Have fun.


Joshua D. Drake


--
The PostgreSQL Company since 1997: http://www.commandprompt.com/
PostgreSQL Community Conference: http://www.postgresqlconference.org/
United States PostgreSQL Association: http://www.postgresql.us/

Thanks for your answer but here's the longer question as asked in the
posts before:

How can I use the official "Postgres without installer" distribution
without compiling the sources for myself and without having to install
the redistribution application of the VC dlls so that I can distribute
an "all-inside" folder with all needed binaries, dlls and so on for all
Windows installations? Is it possible perhaps with a manifest file and
bundled dlls or is it impossible?

Jörn

Joshua Drake schrieb:
> On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:02:27 +0200
> Jörn Heid <heid@hs-heilbronn.de> wrote:
>
>
>> So, nobody knows how to make the official "Postgres without
>> Installer" to work with a normal Windows installation?
>>
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs.FAQ_MINGW.html
>
> Have fun.
>
>
> Joshua D. Drake
>
>
>

--
Dipl.-Inform. Med. Jörn Heid

Zentrum für virtuelle Patienten / Centre for Virtual Patients
Universitätsklinikum Heidelberg
Hygiene-Institut
Im Neuenheimer Feld 324
69120 Heidelberg

Tel.:  +49-(0)7131-504-481
Fax:   +49-(0)7131-252-470

Jörn

a Microsoft Windows Installer is supposed to do:
a)configure any/all server binaries to work as a Windows Service (take a look at Admin/CPanel/Services) ..
b)retain these configurations in the windows registry as identified by CLSID (a unique ID which tracks
the binaries characteristics such as version,location,size,which Windows Groups/users can access) as well
as any dependencies these binaries may have to report to to Win32 dependency manager

When the Windows Installer is out of synch with the installed MS binary as what happens when you install a Windows Service Pack your install may only partially install leaving the installation in a unusable state where you would then have to
1)clean out the registry for all of the entries for the program (exes) and all of its associated dependent dlls
2)delete the installation root folder (and all associated programs)
3)delete any/all links/aliases to those programs

so what started off with a Installer version mismatch can easily turn into hours or even a day long task especially with binaries who may drop into windows/system32 folder (as is the case when jsvc with msvcrt -this is the MAIN runtime library for MS)

In a perfect world where all environments, all resources and all capabilties of the operator are known the windows installer works as intended..change any version of any characteristic of the above requirements one iota and the installer breaks the install..

I vote Postgres sans Windows Installer
Martin
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> Date: Fri, 3 Oct 2008 21:25:53 +0200
> From: heid@hs-heilbronn.de
> To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Standalone Windows Installation
>
> Thanks for your answer but here's the longer question as asked in the
> posts before:
>
> How can I use the official "Postgres without installer" distribution
> without compiling the sources for myself and without having to install
> the redistribution application of the VC dlls so that I can distribute
> an "all-inside" folder with all needed binaries, dlls and so on for all
> Windows installations? Is it possible perhaps with a manifest file and
> bundled dlls or is it impossible?
>
> Jörn
>
> Joshua Drake schrieb:
> > On Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:02:27 +0200
> > Jörn Heid <heid@hs-heilbronn.de> wrote:
> >
> >
> >> So, nobody knows how to make the official "Postgres without
> >> Installer" to work with a normal Windows installation?
> >>
> >
> > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faqs.FAQ_MINGW.html
> >
> > Have fun.
> >
> >
> > Joshua D. Drake
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> Dipl.-Inform. Med. Jörn Heid
>
> Zentrum für virtuelle Patienten / Centre for Virtual Patients
> Universitätsklinikum Heidelberg
> Hygiene-Institut
> Im Neuenheimer Feld 324
> 69120 Heidelberg
>
> Tel.: +49-(0)7131-504-481
> Fax: +49-(0)7131-252-470
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-general mailing list (pgsql-general@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-general

---

Stay up to date on your PC, the Web, and your mobile phone with Windows Live. See Now

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 6:53 PM, Martin Gainty <mgainty@hotmail.com> wrote:

> so what started off with a Installer version mismatch can easily turn into
> hours or even a day long task especially with binaries who may drop into
> windows/system32 folder (as is the case when jsvc with msvcrt -this is the
> MAIN runtime library for MS)
>
> In a perfect world where all environments, all resources and all capabilties
> of the operator are known the windows installer works as intended..change
> any version of any characteristic of the above requirements one iota and the
> installer breaks the install..
>
> I vote Postgres sans Windows Installer

I just prefer to use an os with a package manager.  I cannot believe
Microsoft hasn't bothered to at least steal one yet.

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 8:02 AM, Scott Marlowe <scott.marlowe@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just prefer to use an os with a package manager.  I cannot believe
> Microsoft hasn't bothered to at least steal one yet.

Why would they? To the extend that such functionality would be
required on WIndows, where it's far, far less common to use a myriad
of dependencies from different sources, it's handled by merge modules
and the installer, which are used to ensure consistent deployment of
dependencies, whilst keeping the installer self-contained and free of
user visible dependencies.


--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK:   http://www.enterprisedb.com

On Sat, Oct 4, 2008 at 1:53 AM, Martin Gainty <mgainty@hotmail.com> wrote:
> When the Windows Installer is out of synch with the installed MS binary as
> what happens when you install a Windows Service Pack your install may only
> partially install leaving the installation in a unusable state where you
> would then have to
> 1)clean out the registry for all of the entries for the program (exes) and
> all of its associated dependent dlls
> 2)delete the installation root folder (and all associated programs)
> 3)delete any/all links/aliases to those programs

None of which applies to PostgreSQL (or a Windows Service Pack).

The only shared DLLs which PostgreSQL 8.3 uses are are the VC++ 8
runtimes, which are installed as versioned assemblies. Multiple
versions of the runtimes can be installed simultaneously, and the
binaries bind automatically to the correct version.

PostgreSQL 8.2 used the MSVC++ 6 runtimes, which have never had a
non-backwards compatible update. This applies also to other components
such as COM objects and ActiveX controls which may also be updated
with a service pack. Any compatibility breaks are accompanied by a
CLSID and filename change specifically to ensure that both versions
can coexist to prevent breakage of third party apps.

The kind of breakage you refer to typically comes from third party
apps that install libraries in shared locations and break
compatibility without regard for the consequences. We were guilty of
this with PostgreSQL 8.0, in which we installed completely
un-versioned SSL libraries as well as libpq.dll in %SYSTEM32%. Suffice
it to say, we fixed this.


--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK:   http://www.enterprisedb.com

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Jörn Heid <heid@hs-heilbronn.de> wrote:
> Thanks for your answer but here's the longer question as asked in the posts
> before:
>
> How can I use the official "Postgres without installer" distribution without
> compiling the sources for myself and without having to install the
> redistribution application of the VC dlls so that I can distribute an
> "all-inside" folder with all needed binaries, dlls and so on for all Windows
> installations? Is it possible perhaps with a manifest file and bundled dlls
> or is it impossible?

It should be possible by including the contents of the runtime
directory (normally found in
C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.VC80.CRT_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_8.0.50727.762_x-ww_6b128700)
and the corresponding manifest found in C:\Windows\WinSxS\Manifests
(probably renamed to Microsoft.VC80.CRT.manifest) in the PostgreSQL
bin directory. This is essentially what we do with pgAdmin.

We did run into some problems with this method with the server though
and found it was more reliable to install them as side by side
assemblies in the global cache. I forget the details, but it might
have been that libraries in the PG lib directory weren't correctly
finding the runtimes in the bin directory (which would usually work
for regular DLLs).

--
Dave Page
EnterpriseDB UK:   http://www.enterprisedb.com

Thanks. I will try it out. This sounds like the solution I was looking for.

Dave Page schrieb:
> On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 8:25 PM, Jörn Heid <heid@hs-heilbronn.de> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for your answer but here's the longer question as asked in the posts
>> before:
>>
>> How can I use the official "Postgres without installer" distribution without
>> compiling the sources for myself and without having to install the
>> redistribution application of the VC dlls so that I can distribute an
>> "all-inside" folder with all needed binaries, dlls and so on for all Windows
>> installations? Is it possible perhaps with a manifest file and bundled dlls
>> or is it impossible?
>>
>
> It should be possible by including the contents of the runtime
> directory (normally found in
> C:\Windows\WinSxS\x86_Microsoft.VC80.CRT_1fc8b3b9a1e18e3b_8.0.50727.762_x-ww_6b128700)
> and the corresponding manifest found in C:\Windows\WinSxS\Manifests
> (probably renamed to Microsoft.VC80.CRT.manifest) in the PostgreSQL
> bin directory. This is essentially what we do with pgAdmin.
>
> We did run into some problems with this method with the server though
> and found it was more reliable to install them as side by side
> assemblies in the global cache. I forget the details, but it might
> have been that libraries in the PG lib directory weren't correctly
> finding the runtimes in the bin directory (which would usually work
> for regular DLLs).
>
>

--
Dipl.-Inform. Med. Jörn Heid

Zentrum für virtuelle Patienten / Centre for Virtual Patients
Universitätsklinikum Heidelberg
Hygiene-Institut
Im Neuenheimer Feld 324
69120 Heidelberg

Tel.:  +49-(0)7131-504-481
Fax:   +49-(0)7131-252-470