Обсуждение: Building Windows fat clients

I'm asking this group because we tend to think alike wrt to data modeling
and separation of concerns ;-)

Any recommendations on ORM libraries for new Windows development? The last
time I started anything from scratch was over 10 years ago, and the "state
of the art" seemed to be to smash everything together into event handlers on
GUI objects. Ugh. I pulled the M of the MVC out into separate coherent
classes and implemented a *very* simple ORM, leaving the VC mostly conflated
in the event handlers--which is not too bad since this app will never need
to be cross-platform.

So the dev tool was discontinued, some closed-source libraries are getting
less and less compatible by the year, and we're going to rewrite. Where to
start? It's a custom Windows-only app, only installed at one site. Using
.NET would be fine. C# or C++ would be most-preferred language choices,
although we could suck it up and use Java. I don't want to put VB on the
table.

Leaning toward Visual Studio .NET because I know it will be around (in
whatever morphed form) for a while; but also considering Borland's
supposedly revitalized C++ tools because I used C++ Builder with success
back when MS C++ compilers were still awful. I should probably mention that
the Windows apps, with the exception of one complicated "explore customer's
entire history here" screen, are pretty simple; the complexity is in reports
and stored procedures.

Suggestions where to start?

--
Scott Ribe
scott_ribe@killerbytes.com
http://www.killerbytes.com/
(303) 722-0567 voice

On Wednesday 19 September 2007 10:19, Scott Ribe wrote:
> I'm asking this group because we tend to think alike wrt to data modeling
> and separation of concerns ;-)
>
> Any recommendations on ORM libraries for new Windows development? The last
> time I started anything from scratch was over 10 years ago, and the "state
> of the art" seemed to be to smash everything together into event handlers
> on GUI objects. Ugh. I pulled the M of the MVC out into separate coherent
> classes and implemented a *very* simple ORM, leaving the VC mostly
> conflated in the event handlers--which is not too bad since this app will
> never need to be cross-platform.
>
> So the dev tool was discontinued, some closed-source libraries are getting
> less and less compatible by the year, and we're going to rewrite. Where to
> start? It's a custom Windows-only app, only installed at one site. Using
> .NET would be fine. C# or C++ would be most-preferred language choices,
> although we could suck it up and use Java. I don't want to put VB on the
> table.
>
> Leaning toward Visual Studio .NET because I know it will be around (in
> whatever morphed form) for a while; but also considering Borland's
> supposedly revitalized C++ tools because I used C++ Builder with success
> back when MS C++ compilers were still awful. I should probably mention that
> the Windows apps, with the exception of one complicated "explore customer's
> entire history here" screen, are pretty simple; the complexity is in
> reports and stored procedures.
>
> Suggestions where to start?
If you like python you might want to check www.dabodev.com.  Dabo was designed
to access data.
--
John Fabiani

Hello Guys

Using C# means .NET framework will need to be installed and your webapp will
only work with Microsoft OS
Be aware scripting languages such as PHP and Python will necessitate that
you acquire all of the libraries for your web app..
As long as you stay mainstream you should be ok
But if you have specific requirements for XYZ Db that nobody supports or
protocols or device drivers that nobody has written you'll have to write the
libraries yourself

Martin--
----- Original Message -----
From: "johnf" <jfabiani@yolo.com>
To: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Building Windows fat clients


> On Wednesday 19 September 2007 10:19, Scott Ribe wrote:
>> I'm asking this group because we tend to think alike wrt to data modeling
>> and separation of concerns ;-)
>>
>> Any recommendations on ORM libraries for new Windows development? The
>> last
>> time I started anything from scratch was over 10 years ago, and the
>> "state
>> of the art" seemed to be to smash everything together into event handlers
>> on GUI objects. Ugh. I pulled the M of the MVC out into separate coherent
>> classes and implemented a *very* simple ORM, leaving the VC mostly
>> conflated in the event handlers--which is not too bad since this app will
>> never need to be cross-platform.
>>
>> So the dev tool was discontinued, some closed-source libraries are
>> getting
>> less and less compatible by the year, and we're going to rewrite. Where
>> to
>> start? It's a custom Windows-only app, only installed at one site. Using
>> .NET would be fine. C# or C++ would be most-preferred language choices,
>> although we could suck it up and use Java. I don't want to put VB on the
>> table.
>>
>> Leaning toward Visual Studio .NET because I know it will be around (in
>> whatever morphed form) for a while; but also considering Borland's
>> supposedly revitalized C++ tools because I used C++ Builder with success
>> back when MS C++ compilers were still awful. I should probably mention
>> that
>> the Windows apps, with the exception of one complicated "explore
>> customer's
>> entire history here" screen, are pretty simple; the complexity is in
>> reports and stored procedures.
>>
>> Suggestions where to start?
> If you like python you might want to check www.dabodev.com.  Dabo was
> designed
> to access data.
> --
> John Fabiani
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
> [mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Martin Gainty
> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 5:58 PM
> To: johnf; pgsql-general@postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Building Windows fat clients
>
>
> Hello Guys
>
> Using C# means .NET framework will need to be installed and
> your webapp will
> only work with Microsoft OS


Not entirely true.  The Mono project ( www.mono-project.com ) has
implemented a decent amount of the .NET Framework in a cross-platform
environment, including much of ASP.NET.


> Be aware scripting languages such as PHP and Python will
> necessitate that
> you acquire all of the libraries for your web app..
> As long as you stay mainstream you should be ok
> But if you have specific requirements for XYZ Db that nobody
> supports or
> protocols or device drivers that nobody has written you'll
> have to write the
> libraries yourself
>
> Martin--
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "johnf" <jfabiani@yolo.com>
> To: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 5:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Building Windows fat clients
>
>
> > On Wednesday 19 September 2007 10:19, Scott Ribe wrote:
> >> I'm asking this group because we tend to think alike wrt to data
> >> modeling and separation of concerns ;-)
> >>
> >> Any recommendations on ORM libraries for new Windows
> development? The
> >> last
> >> time I started anything from scratch was over 10 years
> ago, and the
> >> "state
> >> of the art" seemed to be to smash everything together into
> event handlers
> >> on GUI objects. Ugh. I pulled the M of the MVC out into
> separate coherent
> >> classes and implemented a *very* simple ORM, leaving the VC mostly
> >> conflated in the event handlers--which is not too bad
> since this app will
> >> never need to be cross-platform.
> >>
> >> So the dev tool was discontinued, some closed-source libraries are
> >> getting
> >> less and less compatible by the year, and we're going to
> rewrite. Where
> >> to
> >> start? It's a custom Windows-only app, only installed at
> one site. Using
> >> .NET would be fine. C# or C++ would be most-preferred
> language choices,
> >> although we could suck it up and use Java. I don't want to
> put VB on the
> >> table.
> >>
> >> Leaning toward Visual Studio .NET because I know it will be around
> >> (in whatever morphed form) for a while; but also considering
> >> Borland's supposedly revitalized C++ tools because I used
> C++ Builder
> >> with success back when MS C++ compilers were still awful. I should
> >> probably mention that the Windows apps, with the exception of one
> >> complicated "explore customer's
> >> entire history here" screen, are pretty simple; the
> complexity is in
> >> reports and stored procedures.
> >>
> >> Suggestions where to start?
> > If you like python you might want to check www.dabodev.com.
>  Dabo was
> > designed
> > to access data.
> > --
> > John Fabiani
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of
> > broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
> >
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of
> broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
>

Glad to hear that

I knew Novell *was* working on a port to BSD
But I havent heard about ports to other Nix platforms?

M--
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Bartlett" <bbartlett@softwareanalytics.com>
To: "'Martin Gainty'" <mgainty@hotmail.com>; "'johnf'" <jfabiani@yolo.com>;
<pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Building Windows fat clients


>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
>> [mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Martin Gainty
>> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 5:58 PM
>> To: johnf; pgsql-general@postgresql.org
>> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Building Windows fat clients
>>
>>
>> Hello Guys
>>
>> Using C# means .NET framework will need to be installed and
>> your webapp will
>> only work with Microsoft OS
>
>
> Not entirely true.  The Mono project ( www.mono-project.com ) has
> implemented a decent amount of the .NET Framework in a cross-platform
> environment, including much of ASP.NET.
>
>
>> Be aware scripting languages such as PHP and Python will
>> necessitate that
>> you acquire all of the libraries for your web app..
>> As long as you stay mainstream you should be ok
>> But if you have specific requirements for XYZ Db that nobody
>> supports or
>> protocols or device drivers that nobody has written you'll
>> have to write the
>> libraries yourself
>>
>> Martin--
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "johnf" <jfabiani@yolo.com>
>> To: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 5:20 PM
>> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Building Windows fat clients
>>
>>
>> > On Wednesday 19 September 2007 10:19, Scott Ribe wrote:
>> >> I'm asking this group because we tend to think alike wrt to data
>> >> modeling and separation of concerns ;-)
>> >>
>> >> Any recommendations on ORM libraries for new Windows
>> development? The
>> >> last
>> >> time I started anything from scratch was over 10 years
>> ago, and the
>> >> "state
>> >> of the art" seemed to be to smash everything together into
>> event handlers
>> >> on GUI objects. Ugh. I pulled the M of the MVC out into
>> separate coherent
>> >> classes and implemented a *very* simple ORM, leaving the VC mostly
>> >> conflated in the event handlers--which is not too bad
>> since this app will
>> >> never need to be cross-platform.
>> >>
>> >> So the dev tool was discontinued, some closed-source libraries are
>> >> getting
>> >> less and less compatible by the year, and we're going to
>> rewrite. Where
>> >> to
>> >> start? It's a custom Windows-only app, only installed at
>> one site. Using
>> >> .NET would be fine. C# or C++ would be most-preferred
>> language choices,
>> >> although we could suck it up and use Java. I don't want to
>> put VB on the
>> >> table.
>> >>
>> >> Leaning toward Visual Studio .NET because I know it will be around
>> >> (in whatever morphed form) for a while; but also considering
>> >> Borland's supposedly revitalized C++ tools because I used
>> C++ Builder
>> >> with success back when MS C++ compilers were still awful. I should
>> >> probably mention that the Windows apps, with the exception of one
>> >> complicated "explore customer's
>> >> entire history here" screen, are pretty simple; the
>> complexity is in
>> >> reports and stored procedures.
>> >>
>> >> Suggestions where to start?
>> > If you like python you might want to check www.dabodev.com.
>>  Dabo was
>> > designed
>> > to access data.
>> > --
>> > John Fabiani
>> >
>> > ---------------------------(end of
>> > broadcast)---------------------------
>> > TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
>> >
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------(end of
>> broadcast)---------------------------
>> TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
>>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
>
>               http://archives.postgresql.org/
>

I haven't used it in a year or so, although I've heard that it only
keeps getting better / more mature / more complete.

According to their "Supported Platforms" page (
http://www.mono-project.com/Supported_Platforms ), their current list of
supported OS's is:

    * Linux
    * Mac OS X
    * Sun Solaris
    * BSD - OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD
    * Microsoft Windows

One of these days I'm hoping to have some time to get back to using it
(instead of just using Java for cross-platform work).

- Bill

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Martin Gainty [mailto:mgainty@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2000 11:00 AM
> To: Bill Bartlett; 'johnf'; pgsql-general@postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Building Windows fat clients
>
>
> Glad to hear that
>
> I knew Novell *was* working on a port to BSD
> But I havent heard about ports to other Nix platforms?
>
> M--
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Bartlett" <bbartlett@softwareanalytics.com>
> To: "'Martin Gainty'" <mgainty@hotmail.com>; "'johnf'"
> <jfabiani@yolo.com>;
> <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 10:42 PM
> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Building Windows fat clients
>
>
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
> >> [mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Martin
> >> Gainty
> >> Sent: Tuesday, September 19, 2000 5:58 PM
> >> To: johnf; pgsql-general@postgresql.org
> >> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Building Windows fat clients
> >>
> >>
> >> Hello Guys
> >>
> >> Using C# means .NET framework will need to be installed and your
> >> webapp will only work with Microsoft OS
> >
> >
> > Not entirely true.  The Mono project ( www.mono-project.com ) has
> > implemented a decent amount of the .NET Framework in a
> cross-platform
> > environment, including much of ASP.NET.
> >
> >
> >> Be aware scripting languages such as PHP and Python will
> >> necessitate that
> >> you acquire all of the libraries for your web app..
> >> As long as you stay mainstream you should be ok
> >> But if you have specific requirements for XYZ Db that nobody
> >> supports or
> >> protocols or device drivers that nobody has written you'll
> >> have to write the
> >> libraries yourself
> >>
> >> Martin--
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "johnf" <jfabiani@yolo.com>
> >> To: <pgsql-general@postgresql.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 5:20 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] Building Windows fat clients
> >>
> >>
> >> > On Wednesday 19 September 2007 10:19, Scott Ribe wrote:
> >> >> I'm asking this group because we tend to think alike wrt to data
> >> >> modeling and separation of concerns ;-)
> >> >>
> >> >> Any recommendations on ORM libraries for new Windows
> >> development? The
> >> >> last
> >> >> time I started anything from scratch was over 10 years
> >> ago, and the
> >> >> "state
> >> >> of the art" seemed to be to smash everything together into
> >> event handlers
> >> >> on GUI objects. Ugh. I pulled the M of the MVC out into
> >> separate coherent
> >> >> classes and implemented a *very* simple ORM, leaving
> the VC mostly
> >> >> conflated in the event handlers--which is not too bad
> >> since this app will
> >> >> never need to be cross-platform.
> >> >>
> >> >> So the dev tool was discontinued, some closed-source
> libraries are
> >> >> getting
> >> >> less and less compatible by the year, and we're going to
> >> rewrite. Where
> >> >> to
> >> >> start? It's a custom Windows-only app, only installed at
> >> one site. Using
> >> >> .NET would be fine. C# or C++ would be most-preferred
> >> language choices,
> >> >> although we could suck it up and use Java. I don't want to
> >> put VB on the
> >> >> table.
> >> >>
> >> >> Leaning toward Visual Studio .NET because I know it
> will be around
> >> >> (in whatever morphed form) for a while; but also considering
> >> >> Borland's supposedly revitalized C++ tools because I used
> >> C++ Builder
> >> >> with success back when MS C++ compilers were still
> awful. I should
> >> >> probably mention that the Windows apps, with the
> exception of one
> >> >> complicated "explore customer's
> >> >> entire history here" screen, are pretty simple; the
> >> complexity is in
> >> >> reports and stored procedures.
> >> >>
> >> >> Suggestions where to start?
> >> > If you like python you might want to check www.dabodev.com.
> >>  Dabo was
> >> > designed
> >> > to access data.
> >> > --
> >> > John Fabiani
> >> >
> >> > ---------------------------(end of
> >> > broadcast)---------------------------
> >> > TIP 6: explain analyze is your friend
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------------------------(end of
> >> broadcast)---------------------------
> >> TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of
> broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
> >
> >               http://archives.postgresql.org/
> >
>