Re: PL/java?

fellow list members:

please accept my apologies for the following post that i
am responsible for. the post below ended with a personal
attack towards the person i was responding to rather than
keeping with what i felt were the well-reasoned arguments
that i started with.

such attacks have no place on this list and i apologize
for my behaviour to both the original author and to the
other members of the community.

sincerely,

rjsjr

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org
> [mailto:pgsql-general-owner@postgresql.org]On Behalf Of Robert J.
> Sanford, Jr.
> Sent: Friday, August 31, 2001 11:02 PM
> To: pgsql-general@postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: [GENERAL] PL/java?
>
>
> note - i don't work for any of the companies whose products
> are mentioned below. i have performed evaluations of these
> products and the support provided when attempting to determine
> what platform my company's systems should run on. unfortunately,
> i did not choose orion and i am suffering for it now...
>
> some goober blathered thusly:
> > Have you ever actually used Java on an enterprise-level
> > application?  Ever see the Tomcat webserver?  It uses
> > 100MB of memory, drives the load on our server up to 8,
> > and doesn't serve nearly as fast apache. Do you really
> > want that in your database?
>
> first - don't complain about java because you or someone
> in your group/department/company made a poor decision on
> what tools to use. that's like complaining about mexican
> food when the only experience you have is eating an out-
> dated frozen burrito from the 7-11 freezer.
>
> when looking at the performance of java you have to take
> a look at two things - first you have to compare various
> java implementations against each other and then you have
> to compare the best java implementations against native
> c/c++ code. the following link does that. the java tests
> include tomcat, orion, websphere, and resin. jrun and
> weblogic were originally included in the testing but
> were both removed at their companies' request.
>
> the tests also compare orion vs microsoft asp running on
> win2k and iis5. all tests run on the same hardware.
>
> what i believe these tests clearly demonstrate is that
> java is not the problem, the implementation applications
> based on java is. i also do not believe that tomcat is
> a fair representation of java performance in that it is
> intended to be a reference implementation. as such, the
> code base should sacrifice performance for clarity.
>
> http://www.orionserver.com/benchmarks/benchmark.html
>
>
> while not in the benchmark i would also like to
> recommend jetty as an app server. it is an opensource,
> 100% java web and application server. in its base form
> it is "just" a web, servlet, and jsp engine. it does,
> however, have contributed code providing integration
> with other j2ee opensource projects such as the JBoss
> EJB engine.
>
> you can find the jetty home page at:
>    http://jetty.mortbay.com/
>
> and then they blathered some more:
> > Compare the speed of Oracle 8 with 8i if you don't
> > believe me.  The stability is also much worse.  Ever
> > see a JVM on any platform that didn't crash if you
> > looked at it cockeyed?  Ever really trust the garbage
> > collection?  I don't.  I've found a memory leak in IBM
> > developed java libraries.  Gotta restart that app
> > every once in a while to reclaim system resources it
> > gobbled up and never gave back.
>
> some mention was made regarding the performance of
> the oracle8i application server. well, oracle has
> realized that their performance was sub-optimal and
> rectified the situation by licensing the orion server
> for oracle9i. while money and politics most certainly
> play a part in any licensing arrangement they must
> also realize that making customers happy through the
> performance of their applications will lead to more
> money. the link to the press release is below.
>
> http://www.oracle.com/corporate/press/index.html?759347.html
>
> all of that being said...
>
> i don't think that the person that started this thread
> did anything wrong by making the request they did. that
> is what opensource is all about - contributions, even
> just contributions of ideas, are welcomed. even so, there
> are several options that i see for getting it implemented:
> 1) its an open source project so implement it yourself.
>    while i have never worked on modifying the code base
>    i am extremely confident that the current developers
>    will be more than willing to give you advice and
>    pointers.
> 2) if #1 is not feasible either because you don't have
>    the time, the inclination, or the experience then
>    you can write a contract that will pay one of the
>    postgres developers to implement it for you.
> 3) if that isn't feasible you can try to get a volunteer
>    to do so.
> 4) if that isn't feasible then you either have to live
>    with what you have, go elsewhere, or be quiet.
>
> to the person that blathered thusly in response to the
> request for java:
> > Merits of the language notwithstanding, I'd rather
> > not have a buggy, still under development
> > (depreciating everything under the sun with every
> > new iteration) JVM parasite in my DB.
>
> informed and intelligent debate is good. given that i
> believe such to be true, i would request that you
> refrain from blathering such vitriol and uninformed
> nonsense. not only is it for the good of the people
> on the list who don't want to hear it but it will
> also do you good by not telling everyone out there
> that you are a very silly person that doesn't deal
> with logic and/or facts.
>
> to everyone else on the list - if we all contribute
> a penny we could probably buy enough burritos from
> 7-11 to make sure that his hands and mouth are busy
> for a good long while.
>
> rjsjr
>
>
>
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