Re: Code of Conduct plan

On 06/03/2018 04:08 PM, Gavin Flower wrote:

My comments:

1) Reiterate my contention that this is a solution is search of problem. Still it looks like it is going forward, so see below.

2) "... engaging in behavior that may bring the PostgreSQL project into disrepute, ..."
This to me is overly broad and pulls in actions that may happen outside the community. Those if they are actually an issue should be handled where they occur not here.

This is good point. There are those who would think that one has performed an action that brings the project into disrepute and a similar sized bias that suggests that in fact that isn't the case. This based on the CoC would be judged by the CoC committee.

It is my hope that PostgreSQL.Org -Core chooses members for that committee that are exceedingly diverse otherwise it is just an echo chamber for a single ideology and that will destroy this community.

3) "... members must be sensitive to conduct that may be considered offensive by fellow members and must refrain from engaging in such conduct. "

Again overly broad, especially given the hypersensitivity of people these days. I have found that it is enough to disagree with someone to have it called offensive. This section should be removed as proscribed behavior is called out in detail in the paragraphs above it.

"considered offensive by fellow members"

Is definitely too broad. The problem comes in here:

I might possibly say that "I'm the master in this area" when talking to someone on a technical subject.  In the sense that I'm better at that particular skill, but some hypersensitive American could get their knickers in a twist (notice, that in this context, no gender is implied -- also in using that that expression "get their knickers in a twist" could offend some snowflake) claiming that I'm suggesting that whoever

"snowflake", I find that term hilarious others find it highly offensive. Which is correct?

I'm talking to is my slave!  I heard of an American university that doesn't want people to use the term master, like in an MSc, because of the history of slavery.

The PostgreSQL project already has this problem, note we don't use the terms Master and Slave in reference to replication anymore.

I've used the expressions "sacrifice a willing virgin" and "offering my first born to the gods" as ways to ensure success of resolving a technical issue.  The people I say that to, know what I mean -- and they implicitly know that I'm not seriously suggesting such conduct.  Yet, if I wrote that publicly, it is conceivable that someone might object!

Yes and that is a problem. We need to have some simple barrier of acceptance that we are all adults here (or should act like adults). Knowing your audience is important.

Consider a past advertising campaign in Australia to sell government Bonds.  They used two very common hand gestures that are very Australian.  Bond sales dropped.  On investigation, they found the bonds were mainly bought by old Greek people, who found the gestures obscene. The gestures?  Thumbs up, and the okay gesture formed by touching the thumb with the next finger -- nothing sexually suggestive to most Australians, but traditional Greeks found them offensive.

Using Australia as an example, my understanding is that the word c**t is part of nomenclature but in the states the word is taboo and highly frowned upon.

Be very careful in attempting to codify 'correct' behaviour!

Correct. I think one way to look at all of this is, "if you wouldn't say it to your boss or a client don't say it here". That too has problems but generally speaking I think it keeps the restrictions rational.