Re: Implementing "thick"/"fat" databases

On Tue, Jul 26, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Karl Nack <karlnack@futurityinc.com> wrote:
>> The current svn trunk (to be 1.3) does.
>
> So how far do you take this? I've been playing around with plpgsql a bit
> and am pretty encouraged by what I'm discovering; now I'm at a point
> where I'm thinking, "how far do/can I go with this?"

Here are the limitations I have discovered:

1)  Localization of exception strings is a bit of a problem.  Hence
exceptions need to be aimed at communicating to the application rather
than the user.

2)  Difficulties passing complex data structures back and forth and
properly parsing it in the application.  Currently we do a lot with
two dimensional arrays but will probably shift to more arrays of
complex types as we drop support for older versions of PostgreSQL and
DBD::Pg.

There are queries which do a lot of things in the db in a single SQL
statement.  The longest single SQL statement I have found thus far is
a bit over 100 lines long (due to complex requirements and some
shortcomings in the db schema we have inherited that we are working on
replacing).  It's still pretty easy to read and understand at that
length, at least when compared to a function in a more general purpose
language.

Menu data is also stored in the database (application settings and
menu argument data are the two areas where key/value modelling is
used).

The result is that the Perl codebase is shrinking in absolute terms,
being replaced in part by SQL.  However, a rigorous separation of
named query and lightweight application logic has allowed us to shrink
the amount of code total in the project while significantly adding
functionality.

>
> Probably the best example is input validation. Constraints and triggers
> on the database will (or at least should) prevent bad data from being
> added to the database, but the UI generally needs to provide more
> informative messages than errors thrown by the database, and provide
> errors messages for every invalid field, whereas the database will
> fail/stop on the first error. Consequently, I find that much of the data
> logic ends up being duplicated outside of the database to enhance the
> user experience. Might there be a way to move these validation routines
> into the database as well, and unify all the data logic into one place?

The best option is to use exceptions to communicate to the application
what went wrong and then allow the application to handle those
exceptions in many cases.  In other cases, the application may need to
know which inputs are mandatory.

In general what we do is side with the exception trapping and
handling.  This means that if the query fails, we take the sql state,
detect the type of error, and display an appropriate message.  In some
cases ("Access denied") we are terse.  In other cases we are adding
the full SQL error message to the message simply because the
combination of an easy to read description of what happened "Required
input not provided" and the sql message mentioning the field is enough
for many users to figure out what they did wrong,  It's still not
idea.

>
>> > Yes, but I'd implement the constraint "all transactions must balance" as
>> > a trigger that fires when the transaction is complete. This would
>> > enforce data integrity regardless of whether or not the database API is
>> > used, which I think is also important.
>>
>> That's problematic to do in PostgreSQL because statement-level
>> triggers don't have access to statement args, and I don't believe they
>> can be deferred.
>
> In another email I did provide a simple example of how I might implement
> this; I don't know if you saw it. Of course, that assumes your database
> isn't designed by .... :-)

I didn't see it even looking back (I saw the initial attempt and the
PHP sample).

The ideal interface at the moment is something like

SELECT create_transaction(1, current_date, 'Transaction 1', '{(1, 50),
(2, -50)}');

This would allow you do do something like:
SELECT create_transaction(1, current_date, 'Transaction 1', '{(1, 50),
(2, -30), (3, -20)}'); as well since we are now talking about arrays of records.

But this is a pain to code to/from SQL in a robust way.  Good db
drivers sometimes handle this automatically though.

Best Wishes,
Chris Travers