> ORMs a function of poor development culture and vendor advocacy, not
> the fault of SQL. If developers don't understand or are unwilling to
> use joins in language A, they won't in language B either.
>
> merlin
Back in the day, within IBM there were two separate relational databases. System-R (which came from San Hose) and PRTV (the Peterlee Relational Test vehicle). As I understand it SQL came from System-R and the optimizer (amongst other things) came from PRTV.
PRTV (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_Peterlee_Relational_Test_Vehicle_(PRTV)) did not use SQL, and was never a released product, except with a graphical add-on which was sold to two UK local authorities for urban planning.
So there are (and always have been) different ways to send requests to a relational DB, it is just that SQL won the day.
Ah, lets not forget Mr Lane's favourite: quel