Re: Patch committers
От | Robert Haas |
---|---|
Тема | Re: Patch committers |
Дата | |
Msg-id | 603c8f070911121054o63baa5v9f27350405c72d55@mail.gmail.com обсуждение исходный текст |
Ответ на | Re: Patch committers (Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>) |
Ответы |
Re: Patch committers
Re: Patch committers |
Список | pgsql-hackers |
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:27 PM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > >> That's basically just it: Assume bashing is part of the process. Don't >> think of it as bashing. Take the constructive criticism from it, ignore >> the rest. Assume only one out of three feature ideas will make it. >> Apply the prerequisite amount of gamesmanship to the system and tune >> your bikeshedding detectors. Don't take anything personally. Live and >> learn. > > I think what Emmanuel is complaining about here ... with some > justification ... is not the revision requirements of our patch process > but the extremely confusing and frustrating nature of it for new > contributors. For example, how exactly is a new contributor supposed to > know the difference between "bikeshedding" and "constructive criticism", > when (a) they don't know the people involved, and (b) even our more > dedicated committers engage in bikeshedding periodically? > > This isn't just Emmanuel; I've heard this complaint from numerous > first-time contributors, and have seen several talented people walk away > from our project because of it. Even people who have stuck with us, > such as Josh Tolley, have remarked on the "hazing ritual" inherent in > getting a first-time contribution in. I used to feel this way, too. I'm not sure whether it's really worse at first, or whether it just seems worse a first until you get used to it. There is no getting around the fact that this is a community of very smart people. I work at a company where I'm the only developer. Guess what - my development ideas are all brilliant - or at least there's no contrary evidence! Then I come here, where there are plenty of other developers just as smart as I am, or possibly smarter, and here some of my ideas crash and burn. On the other hand, sometimes someone objects to my idea and the *objections* crash and burn. You can't expect to win them all when you're dealing with people who are as smart as you and more knowledgeable about the code. I try to be gentle with newcomers but it's not always easy to figure out what that means. When someone submits a bad patch and I review it, they sometimes get two or three pages of feedback detailing inadequacies of various types. I understand that can be hard on the ego, but I don't think it does anyone any favors to give them a PARTIAL list of things they need to fix - in fact I think breaking up the pain into multiple rounds is quite a bit worse, because then you create the illusion of progress without the actuality. I don't give people feedback because I want to hurt them or cause them pain, but I know from experience that until those things are fixed, it *will* *not* *get* *committed*. If I say nothing now, someone else will say it later. I am afraid that the difference between bikeshedding and legitimate criticism is something that contributors have to learn for themselves.I can tell you which things *I* think are bikeshedding,but someone else may have a longer, shorter, or same-size non-overlapping list. No one can speak with authority on this topic because no one is the boss. All that having been said, I feel your pain. I don't want to scare off new contributors, but I don't necessarily know how to improve the situation. > Probably, the only possible solution is for each new contributor to have > a mentor who sticks with them throughout the process of getting their > first contribution accepted, explaining the process, pre-reviewing their > submissions, and explaining to them which criticism they should be > paying attention to and which they shouldn't. I *thought* that Bruce > was doing that for AsterData, but apparently not. Well, this is a good idea, although I'm not sure how well it will play out in practice. I'm always game if anyone wants to email me off-list to discuss issues of this type, or... > This would require a pool of experienced contributors volunteering to be > mentors, which I'm not sure we have. ...I'm willing to do this. > It would also help if people on this list *in general*, were to be a bit > more consistent about phrasing criticism as constructive criticism. > I've seen far too much "how stupid are you?" on this list for the good > health of our developer community. I don't see very much of this at all, so maybe this is another area where it boils down to perspective. I find this list to be quite civilized most of the time; I wouldn't hang around if I didn't. ...Robert
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