Re: Let's Do the CoC Right

On 24/01/16 13:48, Regina Obe wrote:
> This is mostly in response to David's recent comments.  I should say David,
> you are really beginning to make me feel unsafe.
> By unsafe I mean my mental safety of being able to speak truthfully without
> fear of being kicked out of a community I love.
>
> I do not think we need a Coc and if we do, it's only to protect me from
> people like this Kurtis guy:
>
> https://twitter.com/siloraptor/status/690637345972981760
>
> So if we have a Coc, I want all people who are on Core and Coc committee  to
> be exempt from it.  Because if I can't trust them I can't trust anybody in
> the PostgreSQL group.
>
> So here are some comments to your comments David:
>
>
>> 3. If I understand correctly, the impetus for adopting a CoC (which,
> believe me, I laud in no uncertain terms) was this post by Randi Harper
> about her experience reporting abuse to the FreeBSD community:
>
>    >
> http://blog.randi.io/2015/12/31/the-developer-formerly-known-as-freebsdgirl/
>
>> Ideally, by adopting a CoC and an enforcement policy, we can try to
> prevent bad experiences for people reporting abuse. However, in this
> example, the abuse, which came from a
>> FreeBSD committer and was aimed at another, took place on Twitter, not in
> a FreeBSD forum. However, the rules of the FreeBSD community at that time
> did not cover abuse outside
>> sanctioned community forums. As a result, the FreeBSd core:
> I brought that up by the way and is what broke my camel's back about simply
> ignoring this nonsense and going about my business doing PostGIS and tech
> writing.
> I personally went and talked to all the people that supposedly harassed
> Randi and guess what?
> They happened to be very nice people, that seemed emotionally traumatized by
> her unjust assaults and her hiding behind (I'M A WOMAN YOU CAN'T TOUCH ME -
> trump card).
>   In search of the truth, I found new friends.
>
> I don't want to even go into detail about the torture in community and
> outside she put this poor guy thru what she put him thru I would expect her
> to pay a million dollars in law-suits.
>
> https://twitter.com/siloraptor/status/689969604102328320
>
> As for her, she blocked me because I said after studying the evidence I
> found her accusations baseless.
>
>
>> Look, I'm not an authority on this stuff, either. But I understand that
> rules, such as those in a Code of Conduct, must be explicit and as
> unambiguous as language will allow.
>
> Those who claim to be authorities are the most narrow-minded, self-absorbed,
> culturally sheltered people I have ever met.  They can only think of
> unambiguity in their own minds.
>
> Chis Travers has demonstrated, that though he's white, he's been exposed to
> so many cultures that he has a sense of how each feels. His experiences make
> him an authority.
> George Winkless has faced abuse and bullying.  He knows what it is when he
> sees it.  Forget he's white.  His experiences make him an authority.
> Josh Drake has to put up with 2 women every day being the only guy in his
> immediate family.  Ironically he probably has a better perspective on the
> "How women feel?" story than I do.
>
> Now as for me true I'm a mixed race (Half-black, Half-white, woman, and I'm
> a dual citizen - Half-Nigerian/ Half American and married to a Chinese man).
> I should be the master authority, but guess what, I don't consider myself
> one.
>
> If I'm in an all black group I'm asked -- "You're part white, what do you
> think white people think about this?" - I say, if you have a group of white
> people, they'll all disagree with each other
>
> If I'm in an all white group I'm asked -- "You're black what do black people
> think?" - Well Nigerians think very differently than non-Nigerians, and I'm
> not usually in an all black group that is not my extended Nigerian family.
>
> If I'm in my husband's family meeting -- "Hmm Regina likes this food, I
> wonder if that means all non-Chinese will like this" - curiously enough they
> all pass me there - Red-bean porridge dessert, and I remain puzzled why
> Chinese hand out desserts that their people don't seem to care for.
>
> if I'm in an all-male group, I'm asked, "You're a woman, do you feel FOSS is
> a rape culture.  Has someone tried to rape you in conferences? Do you feel
> unsafe"   And I'll
>
> a) Point them to Josh Drake, cause he's had more experience dealing with
> women than I have
> b) Also point out that I've lived under the shadow of my older brothers,
> following them around, had boy hand-me down toys, had a mother who was
> "Daddy's favorite girl".
> So essentially I'm a Tom-boy that feels extremely uncomfortable in all
> female groups.  They look like me, but they are foreign creatures to me.  I
> feel I understand the "male" psyche better if there is such a thing.
>
> Finally I've suffered a lot of bullying in youth (and I mean real unsafe
> kind like running from the bus when being chased by a gang of Italian boys
> in an all-italian neighborhoo ready to lynch you kind of bullying) and I bet
> most geeks have, so we are all very experienced on the subject and I would
> hope wouldn't wish it on anyone else.  We don't need a Coc to tell us that.
> I also think PostgreSQL community is VERY diverse.  So I doubt any Coc is
> going to make us more so and probably less so, as the more minority a group,
> the more fear they will have tripping over a Coc booby trap.
>
> So the point is stop assuming who has experience and who doesn't simply by
> how people look.
>
> The irony is that PostgreSQL is so diverse that a Coc leads to nothing but
> huge arguments about what's okay in one culture and not another. We can only
> go by intent and not what was done.  If we can't say that, then a Coc does
> us no good.  I've already violated all Cocs at least 3 times in this whole
> conversation.
>
> Thanks,
> Regina
>
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I agree with Regina, especially about the dangers of a CoC, and not
needing one.

You can tell the truth, and offend someone, even if not intentionally -
for example: try having a sensible discussion with a Creationist!.

I'm a 'white' Married to a Chinese and lived in several countries
(including Sierra Leone), plus been on the Internet since 1991 - but I
don't consider myself an authority, but probably had more relevant
experience than most.  Not had any significant trouble on the Internet,
and even the 'worst' (which was exceedingly minor) would not have been
addressed by any practical CoC.



Cheers,
Gavin