Re: Simple join optimized badly?

От: Mark Kirkwood
Тема: Re: Simple join optimized badly?
Дата: ,
Msg-id: 452C3C2D.6000008@paradise.net.nz
(см: обсуждение, исходный текст)
Ответ на: Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Jim C. Nasby")
Ответы: Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Mark Kirkwood)
Список: pgsql-performance

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Simple join optimized badly?  ("Craig A. James", )
 Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Tom Lane, )
  Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Denis Lussier", )
   Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Jim Nasby, )
   Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Josh Berkus, )
    Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Craig A. James", )
     Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Mark Kirkwood, )
      Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Craig A. James", )
       Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Mark Kirkwood, )
        Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Tom Lane, )
         Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Josh Berkus, )
          Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Tom Lane, )
    Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Tom Lane, )
    Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Scott Marlowe, )
 Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Bruce Momjian, )
  Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Craig A. James", )
 Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Chris Browne, )
 Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Chris Browne, )
  Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Jim C. Nasby", )
   Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Tom Lane, )
   Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Mark Kirkwood, )
    Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Mark Kirkwood, )
 Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Tobias Brox, )
  Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Jim C. Nasby", )
   Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Joshua D. Drake", )
    Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Jim C. Nasby", )
     Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Joshua D. Drake", )
   Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Tom Lane, )
    Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Jim C. Nasby", )
     Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Tom Lane, )
      Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Jim C. Nasby", )
       Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Josh Berkus, )
        Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Jim C. Nasby", )
  Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Bruno Wolff III, )
 Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Brian Herlihy, )
  Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Craig A. James", )
   Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Joshua D. Drake", )
    Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Jim C. Nasby", )
     Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Steinar H. Gunderson", )
      Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Joshua D. Drake", )
     Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Joshua D. Drake", )
      Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Brian Herlihy, )
       Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Tom Lane, )
        Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Brian Herlihy, )
        Re: Simple join optimized badly?  ("Bucky Jordan", )
         Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Heikki Linnakangas, )
          Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Bruce Momjian, )
         Collect stats during seqscan (was: Simple join optimized badly?)  ("Jim C. Nasby", )
        Re: Simple join optimized badly?  (Mark Lewis, )

Jim C. Nasby wrote:

> (snippage)... but we'll never get any progress so long as every
> time hints are brought up the response is that they're evil and should
> never be in the database. I'll also say that a very simple hinting
> language (ie: allowing you to specify access method for a table, and
> join methods) would go a huge way towards enabling app developers to get
> stuff done now while waiting for all these magical optimizer
> improvements that have been talked about for years.

It is possibly because some of us feel they are evil :-) (can't speak
for the *real* Pg developers, just my 2c here)

As for optimizer improvements well, yeah we all want those - but the
basic problem (as I think Tom stated) is the developer resources to do
them. As an aside this applies to hints as well - even if we have a
patch to start off with - look at how much time bitmap indexes have been
worked  on to get them ready for release....

Personally I don't agree with the oft stated comment along the lines of
"we will never get the optimizer to the point where it does not need
some form of hinting" as:

1/ we don't know that to be a true statement, and
2/ it is kind of admitting defeat on a very interesting problem, when in
fact a great deal of progress has been made to date, obviously by people
who believe it is possible to build a "start enough" optimizer.

best wishes

Mark



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