Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS)

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От
Bruce Momjian
Тема
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS)
Дата
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20180621150927.GB24547@momjian.us
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Дерево обсуждения
[Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) "Moon, Insung" <Moon_Insung_i3@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Aleksander Alekseev <a.alekseev@postgrespro.ru>
RE: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) "Moon, Insung" <Moon_Insung_i3@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
RE: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) andKey Management Service (KMS) "Tsunakawa, Takayuki" <tsunakawa.takay@jp.fujitsu.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Alvaro Hernandez <aht@ongres.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) Antonin Houska <ah@cybertec.at>
RE: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) "Moon, Insung" <Moon_Insung_i3@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Tomas Vondra <tomas.vondra@2ndquadrant.com>
RE: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) "Moon, Insung" <Moon_Insung_i3@lab.ntt.co.jp>
RE: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) andKey Management Service (KMS) "Tsunakawa, Takayuki" <tsunakawa.takay@jp.fujitsu.com>
RE: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) "Moon, Insung" <Moon_Insung_i3@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
RE: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) "Moon, Insung" <Moon_Insung_i3@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
RE: Threat models for DB cryptography (Re: [Proposal] Table-levelTransparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key) Management Service (KMS) "Tsunakawa, Takayuki" <tsunakawa.takay@jp.fujitsu.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Alvaro Hernandez <aht@ongres.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us>
RE: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) "Moon, Insung" <Moon_Insung_i3@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Ibrar Ahmed <ibrar.ahmad@gmail.com>
RE: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) "Moon, Insung" <Moon_Insung_i3@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Jeremy Schneider <schnjere@amazon.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Jeremy Schneider <schnjere@amazon.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Tomas Vondra <tomas.vondra@2ndquadrant.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Haribabu Kommi <kommi.haribabu@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) andKey Management Service (KMS) Laurenz Albe <laurenz.albe@cybertec.at>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Chris Howard <chris@elfpen.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Tomas Vondra <tomas.vondra@2ndquadrant.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) Antonin Houska <ah@cybertec.at>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) Antonin Houska <ah@cybertec.at>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Tomas Vondra <tomas.vondra@2ndquadrant.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Robert Haas <robertmhaas@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) PostgreSQL - Hans-Jürgen Schönig<postgres@cybertec.at>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Tomas Vondra <tomas.vondra@2ndquadrant.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
RE: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) "Moon, Insung" <Moon_Insung_i3@lab.ntt.co.jp>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Bruce Momjian <bruce@momjian.us>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Joe Conway <mail@joeconway.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Tomas Vondra <tomas.vondra@2ndquadrant.com>
RE: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and Key Management Service (KMS) "Moon, Insung" <Moon_Insung_i3@lab.ntt.co.jp>
RE: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) andKey Management Service (KMS) "Tsunakawa, Takayuki" <tsunakawa.takay@jp.fujitsu.com>
Re: [Proposal] Table-level Transparent Data Encryption (TDE) and KeyManagement Service (KMS) Masahiko Sawada <sawada.mshk@gmail.com>
On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 04:49:34PM +0900, Masahiko Sawada wrote:
> >> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 6:57 AM, Nico Williams  wrote:
> >> So on the whole I think that crypto is a poor fit for the DBAs-are-the-
> >> threat threat model.  It's better to reduce the number of DBAs/sysadmins
> >> and audit all privileged (and, for good measure, unprivileged) access.
> 
> I agree with this. The in-database data encryption can defend mainly
> the threat of storage theft and the threat of memory dump attack. I'm
> sure this design had been proposed for the former purpose. If we want
> to defend the latter we must encrypt data even on database memory. To
> be honest, I'm not sure that there is needs in practice that is user
> want to defend the memory dump attack. What user often needs is to
> defend the threat of storage theft with minimum performance overhead.
> It's known that client-side encryption or encryption on database
> memory increase additional performance overheads. So it would be
> better to have several ways to defend different threats as Joe
> mentioned.

If you can view memory you can't really trust the server and have to do
encryption client-side.

-- 
  Bruce Momjian          http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

+ As you are, so once was I.  As I am, so you will be. +
+                      Ancient Roman grave inscription +

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