Обсуждение: Totally inappropriate by-line for a major representative of this organization

As a subscriber to many postgresql mailing lists, I received one today
in which Bruce Momjian was respondind to a query from Stefano Nichele
regarding the last_autovacuum field. As always, Bruce's response was
cogent and undoubtedly accurate. What astounded and dismayed me,
however, was his signature byline, which reads:

-
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +


Surely, given the multi-cultural/multi-national/multi-theological users/supporters/advocates of the postgresql and
EnterpriseDBdevelopments and distributions, the inappropriateness of this declaration by Mr. Momjian _as a
representativeof EnterpriseDB_ is inexcusable, unless EnterpriseDB itself is positing itself as a secularly-biased
organization. 

Regardless, please terminate all further communications from all postgresql and EnterpriseDB mail lists until such time
asthis situation can be corrected. 

Scott Runnion
srunnion@mac.com

Really?  Really?  I'm a Wiccan and I genuinely like Bruce and
appreciate all the work he does for this list.  That line is HIS
testimony, it's his truth, and I'm quite happy seeing it go by each
time he writes a message.  My girlfriend is Christian (and a few other
things) and I've been to her church, where the pastor welcomed me with
open arms, even knowing I was not Christian.

Leave the guy alone.

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Scott Runnion <srunnion@mac.com> wrote:
> As a subscriber to many postgresql mailing lists, I received one today in
> which Bruce Momjian was respondind to a query from Stefano Nichele regarding
> the last_autovacuum field. As always, Bruce's response was cogent and
> undoubtedly accurate. What astounded and dismayed me, however, was his
> signature byline, which reads:
>
> -  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
>  EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com
>
>  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
>
>
> Surely, given the multi-cultural/multi-national/multi-theological
> users/supporters/advocates of the postgresql and EnterpriseDB developments
> and distributions, the inappropriateness of this declaration by Mr. Momjian
> _as a representative of EnterpriseDB_ is inexcusable, unless EnterpriseDB
> itself is positing itself as a secularly-biased organization.
> Regardless, please terminate all further communications from all postgresql
> and EnterpriseDB mail lists until such time as this situation can be
> corrected.
>
> Scott Runnion
> srunnion@mac.com
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin
>



--
When fascism comes to America, it will be draped in a flag and
carrying a cross - Sinclair Lewis

Just FYI, searching the mailing list archives, I get 1000+ hits for
"Bruce Momjian" and the word thanks in the history of the mailing
lists.  My name gets 782 or so.  Scott Runnion doesn't seem to appear
at all.

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Scott Runnion <srunnion@mac.com> wrote:

> As always, Bruce's response was cogent and
> undoubtedly accurate. What astounded and dismayed me, however, was his
> signature byline, which reads:

The last time I checked there is only a requirement that subject
headers need to be on topic.  So far us users are free to advocate
anthing we want in our signatures as long as it is not vulgar.


Aside from this, we individually have the freedom to spam-bucket
anyone's emails that astound and dismay us.

--
Regards,
Richard Broersma Jr.

Visit the Los Angeles PostgreSQL Users Group (LAPUG)
http://pugs.postgresql.org/lapug

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Scott Runnion <srunnion@mac.com> wrote:

> given the multi-cultural/multi-national/multi-theological

One other thought, given the truth of this statement we should
accepted that there are people on this list that fall into any/all of
these categories.  What should not be tolerated is the putting down or
belittling people because they fall into anyone these categories.

--
Regards,
Richard Broersma Jr.

Visit the Los Angeles PostgreSQL Users Group (LAPUG)
http://pugs.postgresql.org/lapug

On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 16:57 -0500, Scott Runnion wrote:


> Regardless, please terminate all further communications from all postgresql and EnterpriseDB mail lists until such
timeas this situation can be corrected. 
>

Well others have already responded but let me just boil it down for you.

No.

Joshua D. Drake

--
PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org
   Consulting, Development, Support, Training
   503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
   The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997

Scott Runnion <srunnion@mac.com> writes:
> ... What astounded and dismayed me,
> however, was his signature byline, which reads:
>   + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

You do realize that he's signed all his outgoing mail with that since
1998 or so?

Whether it's appropriate to combine that with the EDB signature is
between him and EDB, I would say.

> Regardless, please terminate all further communications from all postgresql and EnterpriseDB mail lists until such
timeas this situation can be corrected. 

If you mean you want to unsubscribe, feel free.  See the directions
attached to all outgoing list mail, viz:

> Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin

            regards, tom lane

Scott Runnion wrote:
> + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
Is this his sig in every message, or does he have a random quote thing?
Regardless, my signature block from my personal e-mail account has this
quote:

"Who is more irrational? A man who believes in a God he doesn't see, or
a man who's offended by a God he doesn't believe in?" - Brad Stine

We're talking about a signature block, not the content of the message.
It's not like he replied to a query about pg_dumpall by saying "Acts
10:31 - 'Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, thou
and thy data.'"  If you feel it's inappropriate, I would think that the
appropriate channel for complaint would be the company itself, not this
list of its users.  And, to forsake this avenue of advice because of a
religious quote in a signature block would be, IMO, a foolish choice.

--
Daniel J. Summers
Owner, DJS Consulting
E-mail -     daniel@djs-consulting.com <mailto:daniel@djs-consulting.com>
Website -      http://www.djs-consulting.com <http://www.djs-consulting.com/>
Technology Blog -      http://www.djs-consulting.com/linux/blog

GEEKCODE 3.12 GCS/IT d s-:+ a C++ L++ E--- W++ N++ o? K- w !O M--
V PS+ PE++ Y? !PGP t+ 5? X+ R* tv b+ DI++ D+ G- e h---- r+++ y++++

On Montag 02 Februar 2009 Scott Runnion wrote:
> Regardless, please terminate all further communications from all
> postgresql

I hope that goes for you. Funny guy. Strange world...

A sig I love and use for another account:
// May those who love us, love us.
// And for those who don't love us, may the good Lord turn their hearts.
// And if He can't turn their hearts, may He turn their ankles
// So we'll know them by their limping.

mfg zmi
--
// Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc.
----------------------------------
Sorcerers have their magic wands:
  powerful, potentially dangerous tools with a life of their own.
Witches have their familiars:
  creatures disguised as household beasts that could,
  if they choose, wreak the witches' havoc.
Mystics have their golems:
  beings built of wood and tin brought to life to do their
  masters' bidding.
I have Linux.
----------------------------------

On Mon, Feb 02, 2009 at 04:57:21PM -0500, Scott Runnion wrote:
> Surely, given the multi-cultural/multi-national/multi-theological
> users/supporters/advocates of the postgresql and EnterpriseDB developments
> and distributions, the inappropriateness of this declaration by Mr. Momjian

This really interesting (imho) commentary appeared in papers around the U.S. today.
Maybe we can read, consider, and be like Emma and Charles.  Maybe not:

http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090131/OPINION/901310313/1025/LIVING04

On Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Scott Runnion <srunnion@mac.com> wrote:

> Regardless, please terminate all further communications from all postgresql
> and EnterpriseDB mail lists until such time as this situation can be
> corrected.

Scott, please read my signature, find a Latin to English dictionary in
case that you can't read Latin, and meditate about it.

Seriously, I don't mind at all what he believes, or how he signs his
emails: he is a well respected person in the community, and he has the
right to believe whatever he wants to believe and express, politely
and without attacking other people, whatever he feels like expressing.
And it's an atheistic talking here.

I mean, come on... *sighs*

--
Jaume Sabater
http://linuxsilo.net/

"Ubi sapientas ibi libertas"

Funny, but I never noticed the signature until someone brought it to notice.

What I have noticed though that Bruce does share a lot of knowledge in the list and though I have not participated or
askedquestions, the mails have helped me a lot. 

I bet it is the same for many users like me who regularly check the posts.

Shrirang.


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-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Monnerie [mailto:michael.monnerie@is.it-management.at]
Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2009 7:05 AM
To: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
Subject: Re: Totally inappropriate by-line for a major representative of this organization

On Montag 02 Februar 2009 Scott Runnion wrote:
> Regardless, please terminate all further communications from all
> postgresql

I hope that goes for you. Funny guy. Strange world...

A sig I love and use for another account:
// May those who love us, love us.
// And for those who don't love us, may the good Lord turn their hearts.
// And if He can't turn their hearts, may He turn their ankles
// So we'll know them by their limping.

mfg zmi
--
// Michael Monnerie, Ing.BSc.
----------------------------------
Sorcerers have their magic wands:
  powerful, potentially dangerous tools with a life of their own.
Witches have their familiars:
  creatures disguised as household beasts that could,
  if they choose, wreak the witches' havoc.
Mystics have their golems:
  beings built of wood and tin brought to life to do their
  masters' bidding.
I have Linux.
----------------------------------

Le mardi 03 février 2009 à 08:41 -0500, Shrirang Chitnis a écrit :
> Funny, but I never noticed the signature until someone brought it to notice.

SHHHHH!!!! please don't bring up Larry Wall, then we are in big trouble
=:-D

Tony

Wow, you are very easily dismayed!!

What sort of life does someone have when they go through it trying to insulate
themselves from any idea that makes them uncomfortable?  Sounds very sterile.

On Monday 02 February 2009 03:57:21 pm Scott Runnion wrote:
> As a subscriber to many postgresql mailing lists, I received one today
> in which Bruce Momjian was respondind to a query from Stefano Nichele
> regarding the last_autovacuum field. As always, Bruce's response was
> cogent and undoubtedly accurate. What astounded and dismayed me,
> however, was his signature byline, which reads:


--
Kinky is using a feather,
Perverted is using the whole chicken.

He must be a card carrying member of the ACLU, and now he thinks he is
the G_d of these lists :)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org
> [mailto:pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Joshua D. Drake
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 4:22 PM
> To: Scott Runnion
> Cc: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Totally inappropriate by-line for a
> major representative of this organization
>
> On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 16:57 -0500, Scott Runnion wrote:
>
>
> > Regardless, please terminate all further communications
> from all postgresql and EnterpriseDB mail lists until such
> time as this situation can be corrected.
> >
>
> Well others have already responded but let me just boil it
> down for you.
>
> No.
>
> Joshua D. Drake
>
> --
> PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org
>    Consulting, Development, Support, Training
>    503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
>    The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin
>

So what if he voices his beliefs.
This PC BS is over the top.
If you are so offended by his by-line, to the extent that you want to
remove yourself fomr the mailing lists, then by all means do so.
I am not a Christian (I am Jewish, so I guess that puts me one rung
below Bruce), and am definitely not offended his byline.
If you aspire to his byline, then that is great, and if you don't, that
is great too.

Bruce, as far as I am concerned, you can leave that byline on there
until hell freezes over :)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org
> [mailto:pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Scott Runnion
> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 2:57 PM
> To: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
> Subject: [ADMIN] Totally inappropriate by-line for a major
> representative of this organization
>
> As a subscriber to many postgresql mailing lists, I received
> one today in which Bruce Momjian was respondind to a query
> from Stefano Nichele regarding the last_autovacuum field. As
> always, Bruce's response was cogent and undoubtedly accurate.
> What astounded and dismayed me, however, was his signature
> byline, which reads:
>
> -
>   Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
>   EnterpriseDB                             http://enterprisedb.com
>
>   + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +
>
>
> Surely, given the
> multi-cultural/multi-national/multi-theological
> users/supporters/advocates of the postgresql and EnterpriseDB
> developments and distributions, the inappropriateness of this
> declaration by Mr. Momjian _as a representative of
> EnterpriseDB_ is inexcusable, unless EnterpriseDB itself is
> positing itself as a secularly-biased organization.
>
> Regardless, please terminate all further communications from
> all postgresql and EnterpriseDB mail lists until such time as
> this situation can be corrected.
>
> Scott Runnion
> srunnion@mac.com
>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list
> (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org) To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin
>

Actually, the ACLU protects CIVIL LIBERTIES, like say, freedom of
speech.  I think they'd be on Bruce's side here.

On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 7:07 PM, Benjamin Krajmalnik <kraj@illumen.com> wrote:
> He must be a card carrying member of the ACLU, and now he thinks he is
> the G_d of these lists :)
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org
>> [mailto:pgsql-admin-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Joshua D. Drake
>> Sent: Monday, February 02, 2009 4:22 PM
>> To: Scott Runnion
>> Cc: pgsql-admin@postgresql.org
>> Subject: Re: [ADMIN] Totally inappropriate by-line for a
>> major representative of this organization
>>
>> On Mon, 2009-02-02 at 16:57 -0500, Scott Runnion wrote:
>>
>>
>> > Regardless, please terminate all further communications
>> from all postgresql and EnterpriseDB mail lists until such
>> time as this situation can be corrected.
>> >
>>
>> Well others have already responded but let me just boil it
>> down for you.
>>
>> No.
>>
>> Joshua D. Drake
>>
>> --
>> PostgreSQL - XMPP: jdrake@jabber.postgresql.org
>>    Consulting, Development, Support, Training
>>    503-667-4564 - http://www.commandprompt.com/
>>    The PostgreSQL Company, serving since 1997
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org)
>> To make changes to your subscription:
>> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin
>>
>
> --
> Sent via pgsql-admin mailing list (pgsql-admin@postgresql.org)
> To make changes to your subscription:
> http://www.postgresql.org/mailpref/pgsql-admin
>



--
When fascism comes to America, it will be the intolerant selling it as
diversity.

On Thu, 2009-02-05 at 17:57 +0100, Sylvain Avril wrote:
> I think you should read this and especially article 18 and 19 of
> this :
> http://www.un.org/Overview/rights.html

Interesting read, thanks.

OT: I see that Article 27 (2) appears to run directly counter to open
source software. And it would appear that paragraph is in direct
conflict with paragraph (1) of same article.

--
 Simon Riggs           www.2ndQuadrant.com
 PostgreSQL Training, Services and Support