Обсуждение: [pgadmin-hackers] User Research Findings into PgAdmin
Hi On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 9:42 PM, Raffi Holzer <rholzer@pivotal.io> wrote: > Hi, > As part of a project to enable pgAdmin4 to work with Greenplum databases, > we conducted user research into pgAdmin. We wanted to share those insights > and potentially develop against them but first wanted to get feedback from > the pgAdmin group. To that end we created the video below that summarizes > our findings. Let us know what you think. > > https://youtu.be/BylcblYw8sU That's very helpful, thank you. Can you please summarise your findings in an email to the list so we can work with it within our normal process? I will note that whilst I agree some of the points raised need further work in pgAdmin 4, some of them make little sense - most notably Syntax Highlighting which we've had for ~17 years, and works automatically, thus not requiring any kind of user discovery beyond typing some SQL into the query tool. Auto-complete is another example of a feature we've had for years, that is documented. I agree though that there is scope for better discovery mechanisms there. Some of the other comments highlighted made little to no sense to me, for example the comment on column names @ ~3:03 and the comment on the bottom left @ ~3:22 (this is a great example of why email is better than a video :-) ). -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Hi
On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 9:42 PM, Raffi Holzer <rholzer@pivotal.io> wrote:
> Hi,
> As part of a project to enable pgAdmin4 to work with Greenplum databases,
> we conducted user research into pgAdmin. We wanted to share those insights
> and potentially develop against them but first wanted to get feedback from
> the pgAdmin group. To that end we created the video below that summarizes
> our findings. Let us know what you think.
>
> https://youtu.be/BylcblYw8sU
That's very helpful, thank you. Can you please summarise your findings
in an email to the list so we can work with it within our normal
process?
I will note that whilst I agree some of the points raised need further
work in pgAdmin 4, some of them make little sense - most notably
Syntax Highlighting which we've had for ~17 years, and works
automatically, thus not requiring any kind of user discovery beyond
typing some SQL into the query tool. Auto-complete is another example
of a feature we've had for years, that is documented. I agree though
that there is scope for better discovery mechanisms there.
Some of the other comments highlighted made little to no sense to me,
for example the comment on column names @ ~3:03 and the comment on the
bottom left @ ~3:22 (this is a great example of why email is better
than a video :-) ).
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Hi Dave,We can definitely send a summary via email. Just to clarify those points you brought up. Syntax highlighting definitely does exist and is totally discoverable but people still seemed to miss it. Our best guess as to why so many users miss it is because of the relatively small contrast in colors (Navy vs black). Regarding autocomplete, despite it being documented, almost none of the long time customers we spoke with knew it existed which suggests they're not reading the documentation very closely or at all.Regarding the comments you mentioned, the one regarding column names was talking about preserving the column name when moving data to Excel. And I'll admit, the other comment is pretty unclear out of context. We probably should not have included it as is.A summary of the findings will be forthcoming.--On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 4:25 AM, Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:Hi
On Tue, Jan 24, 2017 at 9:42 PM, Raffi Holzer <rholzer@pivotal.io> wrote:
> Hi,
> As part of a project to enable pgAdmin4 to work with Greenplum databases,
> we conducted user research into pgAdmin. We wanted to share those insights
> and potentially develop against them but first wanted to get feedback from
> the pgAdmin group. To that end we created the video below that summarizes
> our findings. Let us know what you think.
>
> https://youtu.be/BylcblYw8sU
That's very helpful, thank you. Can you please summarise your findings
in an email to the list so we can work with it within our normal
process?
I will note that whilst I agree some of the points raised need further
work in pgAdmin 4, some of them make little sense - most notably
Syntax Highlighting which we've had for ~17 years, and works
automatically, thus not requiring any kind of user discovery beyond
typing some SQL into the query tool. Auto-complete is another example
of a feature we've had for years, that is documented. I agree though
that there is scope for better discovery mechanisms there.
Some of the other comments highlighted made little to no sense to me,
for example the comment on column names @ ~3:03 and the comment on the
bottom left @ ~3:22 (this is a great example of why email is better
than a video :-) ).
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL CompanyRaffi HolzerProduct ManagerPivotal Labs
On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 2:47 PM, Robert Eckhardt <reckhardt@pivotal.io> wrote: > One of the surprises for me when looking at the interview notes was the > number of features that people asked for that already existed. IMO one of > the wins for design would be making these more easily discovered. As I see > it a lot of the design is going to be fairly nuanced and having the > conversation to include the community in the process of discovery and > validation would be awesome if there is interest. There is definitely interest. Improving pgAdmin helps the community, which in turn helps EDB, Pivotal and every other Postgres company that has users using it. My main concern is making the right decisions on what to change, and focussing efforts in the areas where we gain most benefit. Of course, the resources to do the work are also critical - the current team already have a good years worth of work in various additional features and improvements. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
My main concern is making the right decisions on what to change, and
focussing efforts in the areas where we gain most benefit. Of course,
the resources to do the work are also critical - the current team
already have a good years worth of work in various additional features
and improvements.
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Needs | Suggested Solutions |
Users need a reliable way to save their queries frequently | Autosave, Persisting & Complete History, Persisting Un-run queries after disconnect |
Users need a more efficient way to type | Auto-discoverable Autocomplete, Customize shortcuts, more visible syntax highlighting |
Users need a process to share query output with others | Copy and Paste into Excel with proper formatting, Export button to MS XML |
Users need a way to quickly input content into pgAdmin | Edit within graphic table |
Users need query output to be stored to reuse results | Results stored in history |
Users need an easier way to find saved queries | Workspace, Search |
My main concern is making the right decisions on what to change, and
focussing efforts in the areas where we gain most benefit. Of course,
the resources to do the work are also critical - the current team
already have a good years worth of work in various additional features
and improvements.Absolutely our concern as well which is why we don't want to work in a vacuum.-- Rob
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
As a summary of our findings in writing:Below is a table of user needs we discovered and solutions we or the customers suggested. Some of the "missing" features people complained about are not missing at all (such as auto-complete or syntax highlighting) but the fact that people didn't know about them points to a discoverability issue we believe we can address through design.
Needs
Suggested Solutions
Users need a reliable way to save their queries frequently
Autosave, Persisting & Complete History, Persisting Un-run queries after disconnect
Users need a more efficient way to type
Auto-discoverable Autocomplete, Customize shortcuts, more visible syntax highlighting
Users need a process to share query output with others
Copy and Paste into Excel with proper formatting, Export button to MS XML
Users need a way to quickly input content into pgAdmin
Edit within graphic table
Users need query output to be stored to reuse results
Results stored in history
Users need an easier way to find saved queries
Workspace, Search
--On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Robert Eckhardt <reckhardt@pivotal.io> wrote:My main concern is making the right decisions on what to change, and
focussing efforts in the areas where we gain most benefit. Of course,
the resources to do the work are also critical - the current team
already have a good years worth of work in various additional features
and improvements.Absolutely our concern as well which is why we don't want to work in a vacuum.-- Rob
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL CompanyRaffi HolzerProduct ManagerPivotal Labs
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
HiOn Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Raffi Holzer <rholzer@pivotal.io> wrote:As a summary of our findings in writing:Below is a table of user needs we discovered and solutions we or the customers suggested. Some of the "missing" features people complained about are not missing at all (such as auto-complete or syntax highlighting) but the fact that people didn't know about them points to a discoverability issue we believe we can address through design.
Needs
Suggested Solutions
Users need a reliable way to save their queries frequently
Autosave, Persisting & Complete History, Persisting Un-run queries after disconnect
Please add feature requests for:- Auto-saving of queries (I believe this would implement persisting un-run queries as well).- Saving of previous queries (implemented in pgAdmin III as a combo box at the top of the editor)
Users need a more efficient way to type
Auto-discoverable Autocomplete, Customize shortcuts, more visible syntax highlighting
Please add feature requests for:- Hint mechanism, to display balloon hints that can be triggered during certain tasks to inform the user of functionality they might want to use- Customisable shortcuts (a panel under Preferences -> [Tool Name] to allow customisation of shortcuts in each tool)- Customisable syntax highlight colours
Users need a process to share query output with others
Copy and Paste into Excel with proper formatting, Export button to MS XML
Please add a feature request for:- Allow customisation of the data copy formatting as found in pgAdmin III. The defaults should be changed to not quote strings and use a tab as the delimiter to allow pasting into Excel/Numbers. Note that tabs cannot be represented in TSV data, so we need to deal with that and warn the user. Pasting back into pgAdmin also needs to support format changes.- Add a drop-down menu to the Export button that the user can use to select data format (the default remaining CSV). This can include XML, JSON and the user-defined copy format (per above).
Users need a way to quickly input content into pgAdmin
Edit within graphic table
I don't understand that - you can already add/edit/delete data in a grid.
Users need query output to be stored to reuse results
Results stored in history
Typically users would use multiple query tool windows for that. Saving the results in the history doesn't seem feasible - they can easily run into 10s of MB or more.
Users need an easier way to find saved queries
Workspace, Search
This would need much more definition. In pgAdmin III we had Macros that allowed you to insert standard queries you had saved in response to a shortcut key, and Favourites that allowed you to store a library of favourite queries and load or inject them into the editor. Plus of course, you can save queries to the file system. What would help here?Oh, and before you ask: https://redmine.postgresql.org/projects/ pgadmin4/issues/new :-) Thanks.--On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Robert Eckhardt <reckhardt@pivotal.io> wrote:My main concern is making the right decisions on what to change, and
focussing efforts in the areas where we gain most benefit. Of course,
the resources to do the work are also critical - the current team
already have a good years worth of work in various additional features
and improvements.Absolutely our concern as well which is why we don't want to work in a vacuum.-- Rob
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL CompanyRaffi HolzerProduct ManagerPivotal Labs--Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
Hi Dave,Thanks for the feedback. This is all great!We are actually interested in doing a bit more user testing in order to validate the right solutions and then picking up these features ourselves. We can definitely still put them in the redmine backlog and pick them up from there though. Looking forward to working on al this.
On Thu, Jan 26, 2017 at 6:14 AM, Dave Page <dpage@pgadmin.org> wrote:HiOn Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 8:02 PM, Raffi Holzer <rholzer@pivotal.io> wrote:As a summary of our findings in writing:Below is a table of user needs we discovered and solutions we or the customers suggested. Some of the "missing" features people complained about are not missing at all (such as auto-complete or syntax highlighting) but the fact that people didn't know about them points to a discoverability issue we believe we can address through design.
Needs
Suggested Solutions
Users need a reliable way to save their queries frequently
Autosave, Persisting & Complete History, Persisting Un-run queries after disconnect
Please add feature requests for:- Auto-saving of queries (I believe this would implement persisting un-run queries as well).- Saving of previous queries (implemented in pgAdmin III as a combo box at the top of the editor)
Users need a more efficient way to type
Auto-discoverable Autocomplete, Customize shortcuts, more visible syntax highlighting
Please add feature requests for:- Hint mechanism, to display balloon hints that can be triggered during certain tasks to inform the user of functionality they might want to use- Customisable shortcuts (a panel under Preferences -> [Tool Name] to allow customisation of shortcuts in each tool)- Customisable syntax highlight colours
Users need a process to share query output with others
Copy and Paste into Excel with proper formatting, Export button to MS XML
Please add a feature request for:- Allow customisation of the data copy formatting as found in pgAdmin III. The defaults should be changed to not quote strings and use a tab as the delimiter to allow pasting into Excel/Numbers. Note that tabs cannot be represented in TSV data, so we need to deal with that and warn the user. Pasting back into pgAdmin also needs to support format changes.- Add a drop-down menu to the Export button that the user can use to select data format (the default remaining CSV). This can include XML, JSON and the user-defined copy format (per above).
Users need a way to quickly input content into pgAdmin
Edit within graphic table
I don't understand that - you can already add/edit/delete data in a grid.
Users need query output to be stored to reuse results
Results stored in history
Typically users would use multiple query tool windows for that. Saving the results in the history doesn't seem feasible - they can easily run into 10s of MB or more.
Users need an easier way to find saved queries
Workspace, Search
This would need much more definition. In pgAdmin III we had Macros that allowed you to insert standard queries you had saved in response to a shortcut key, and Favourites that allowed you to store a library of favourite queries and load or inject them into the editor. Plus of course, you can save queries to the file system. What would help here?Oh, and before you ask: https://redmine.postgresql.org/projects/pgadmin4/ issues/new :-) Thanks.--On Wed, Jan 25, 2017 at 10:08 AM, Robert Eckhardt <reckhardt@pivotal.io> wrote:My main concern is making the right decisions on what to change, and
focussing efforts in the areas where we gain most benefit. Of course,
the resources to do the work are also critical - the current team
already have a good years worth of work in various additional features
and improvements.Absolutely our concern as well which is why we don't want to work in a vacuum.-- Rob
--
Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL CompanyRaffi HolzerProduct ManagerPivotal Labs--Dave Page
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company--Raffi HolzerProduct ManagerPivotal Labs
Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com
Twitter: @pgsnake
EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company