Обсуждение: new mailing list procedure
Hi, Do we document the procedure to create a new mailing list somewhere? I ask because I see that the pgsql-rrreviewers has existed for several days, but it is not listed on http://archives.postgresql.org/ nor http://www.postgresql.org/community/lists/ To me this is pretty obvious since the list wasn't added to the wwwmaster database. However, maybe we should make it clear the procedure so that next time we don't have this problem. I think the people creating lists (Marc?) and/or the people requesting lists (Josh?) should be aware of the need to add lists to the database. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
Alvaro, > I think the people creating lists (Marc?) and/or the people requesting > lists (Josh?) should be aware of the need to add lists to the database. > Ah, first time I've heard of the database. Where do I add stuff? --Josh
Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Hi, > > Do we document the procedure to create a new mailing list somewhere? > I ask because I see that the pgsql-rrreviewers has existed for several > days, but it is not listed on http://archives.postgresql.org/ nor > http://www.postgresql.org/community/lists/ To me this is pretty obvious > since the list wasn't added to the wwwmaster database. However, maybe > we should make it clear the procedure so that next time we don't have > this problem. Has the creation even been announced/discussed on -www? I admit I may well have missed it in the past couple of days ;-), but I would think I had reminded people of that if it had. But +1 for documenting the procedure. //Magnus
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Tuesday, November 04, 2008 11:06:00 -0300 Alvaro Herrera <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote: > Hi, > > Do we document the procedure to create a new mailing list somewhere? > I ask because I see that the pgsql-rrreviewers has existed for several > days, but it is not listed on http://archives.postgresql.org/ nor > http://www.postgresql.org/community/lists/ To me this is pretty obvious > since the list wasn't added to the wwwmaster database. However, maybe > we should make it clear the procedure so that next time we don't have > this problem. > > I think the people creating lists (Marc?) and/or the people requesting > lists (Josh?) should be aware of the need to add lists to the database. Oops, sorry, my impression from JoshB was that this wasn't a public list, so shouldn't be listed on archives / community-lists ... - -- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Hosting Solutions S.A. (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.9 (FreeBSD) iEYEARECAAYFAkkQ2PgACgkQ4QvfyHIvDvOYIwCfZI9KKLpuQ8PMSPp3NRb+KVAJ exMAoNLBwaUpnC1gjYMI8sJpZp+oyz3P =/ofO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
On Tuesday 04 November 2008 16:16:24 Magnus Hagander wrote: > Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > Hi, > > > > Do we document the procedure to create a new mailing list somewhere? > > I ask because I see that the pgsql-rrreviewers has existed for several > > days, but it is not listed on http://archives.postgresql.org/ nor > > http://www.postgresql.org/community/lists/ To me this is pretty obvious > > since the list wasn't added to the wwwmaster database. However, maybe > > we should make it clear the procedure so that next time we don't have > > this problem. > > Has the creation even been announced/discussed on -www? I admit I may > well have missed it in the past couple of days ;-), but I would think I > had reminded people of that if it had. > I think it was created on the sly, elsewise I'm sure I would have groused that the issues discussed there could probably be discussed on hackers, that we should be trying to avoid closed lists, and that we really don't need another mailing list... -- Robert Treat Conjecture: http://www.xzilla.net Consulting: http://www.omniti.com
On Tue, 2008-11-04 at 21:38 -0500, Robert Treat wrote: > On Tuesday 04 November 2008 16:16:24 Magnus Hagander wrote: > > Alvaro Herrera wrote: > > > Hi, > I think it was created on the sly, elsewise I'm sure I would have groused that > the issues discussed there could probably be discussed on hackers, that we > should be trying to avoid closed lists, and that we really don't need another > mailing list... Well I don't know about the sly but I would certainly agree that there probably isn't any reason for it to be private. Joshua D. Drake > > -- > Robert Treat > Conjecture: http://www.xzilla.net > Consulting: http://www.omniti.com > --
Robert Treat wrote: > I think it was created on the sly, elsewise I'm sure I would have groused that > the issues discussed there could probably be discussed on hackers, that we > should be trying to avoid closed lists, and that we really don't need another > mailing list... The creation of this list was mentioned on -core, and I did raise those exact same objections. ;-)
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > - --On Tuesday, November 04, 2008 11:06:00 -0300 Alvaro Herrera > <alvherre@commandprompt.com> wrote: > > > I think the people creating lists (Marc?) and/or the people requesting > > lists (Josh?) should be aware of the need to add lists to the database. > > Oops, sorry, my impression from JoshB was that this wasn't a public list, so > shouldn't be listed on archives / community-lists ... If the list is supposed to be private, you must add it to the exclusions of the rsync server; otherwise it will get copied. In any case, it's obviously not private because Josh announced the archives.pg.org URL publicly. I agree with Robert and Peter about the (lack of) need for it. -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ PostgreSQL Replication, Consulting, Custom Development, 24x7 support
On Wed, 2008-11-05 at 08:32 -0300, Alvaro Herrera wrote: > Marc G. Fournier wrote: > If the list is supposed to be private, you must add it to the exclusions > of the rsync server; otherwise it will get copied. > > In any case, it's obviously not private because Josh announced the > archives.pg.org URL publicly. > > I agree with Robert and Peter about the (lack of) need for it. Here is a +1 vote to remove it. If it is a public list, -hackers can handle it. If it is a private list... why? Sincerely, Joshua D. Drake --
Josh, Robert, Peter, > Here is a +1 vote to remove it. If it is a public list, -hackers can > handle it. If it is a private list... why? I adore the fact that none of you has volunteered to help organize the commitfest or the Round Robin Reviewers, but seem intent on telling me how to do so. Is this an open source project, or a government agency? Excuse me for being angry, but the assumption by members of this list that I am either an idiot or have sinister intentions is both completely undeserved and aggravating. The -rrreviewers list exists to assign patches to volunteer Round Robin Reviewers (which you would know if you'd bothered to read the list description, or the RRR wiki page). There is no discussion on the list, just assignments. As the person doing the assignments, the list makes my life much easier. Otherwise, I am forced to use private e-mail and keep a list of who the reviewers are and their e-mail addresses on a scratch pad. Painful, time-consuming, and I lose track of people. And I can't easily turn over the task to others, as I have to do on Nov. 8 to Dave Page. If we had *real* software for the commitfests, of course the --rreviewers list would be unnecessary; I could assign a patch to a volunteer and the system would e-mail them. But we don't have the software, so we need the list. --Josh Berkus
Josh Berkus wrote: > The -rrreviewers list exists to assign patches to volunteer Round Robin > Reviewers (which you would know if you'd bothered to read the list > description, or the RRR wiki page). Hey, I came up with the list description out of thin air ;-) > There is no discussion on the list, > just assignments. As the person doing the assignments, the list makes > my life much easier. Otherwise, I am forced to use private e-mail and > keep a list of who the reviewers are and their e-mail addresses on a > scratch pad. Painful, time-consuming, and I lose track of people. And > I can't easily turn over the task to others, as I have to do on Nov. 8 > to Dave Page. OK, so I was going to opine that it's just as good to post the assignments to pgsql-hackers, but then thought that it's not such a hot idea given the wider distribution of it. However, I just checked the archives of -rrreviewers and I notice two things: 1. the traffic is very low 2. reviews have started being crossposted to -rrreviewers and -hackers (worse yet, posted only to the former) -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
Alvaro, >> The -rrreviewers list exists to assign patches to volunteer Round Robin >> Reviewers (which you would know if you'd bothered to read the list >> description, or the RRR wiki page). > > Hey, I came up with the list description out of thin air ;-) Huh? There's a full description on the listserv, from the creation of the list. Are you not able to access that? > 1. the traffic is very low I'm not concerned about the impact it would have on -hackers. I am concerned about reviewers missing their assignments because -hackers is ~~100 posts/day. Also, --rrreviews makes it easy and clear how to join as an RRR; you subscribe to the mailing list (see RRR wiki page). > 2. reviews have started being crossposted to -rrreviewers and -hackers > (worse yet, posted only to the former) Oh, you're right, the cross-posting is annoying. Have posted behavioral correction to --rrreviewers. Again, --rrr is not an ideal solution. We need commitfest software which is capable of e-mailing people. But an --rrr list is much better than relying on my private mailbox. --Josh
Josh Berkus wrote: > Alvaro, > >>> The -rrreviewers list exists to assign patches to volunteer Round >>> Robin Reviewers (which you would know if you'd bothered to read the >>> list description, or the RRR wiki page). >> >> Hey, I came up with the list description out of thin air ;-) > > Huh? There's a full description on the listserv, from the creation of > the list. Are you not able to access that? Hah -- in the majordomo interface, the lovely thing! I do have access to that, but I didn't remember it existed. I just updated the database with the description on it. >> 1. the traffic is very low > > I'm not concerned about the impact it would have on -hackers. I am > concerned about reviewers missing their assignments because -hackers is > ~~100 posts/day. Also, --rrreviews makes it easy and clear how to join > as an RRR; you subscribe to the mailing list (see RRR wiki page). Hmm, those are both good points I think. >> 2. reviews have started being crossposted to -rrreviewers and -hackers >> (worse yet, posted only to the former) > > Oh, you're right, the cross-posting is annoying. Have posted behavioral > correction to --rrreviewers. Maybe it should be a moderated list? > Again, --rrr is not an ideal solution. We need commitfest software > which is capable of e-mailing people. Something to keep in mind if we ever implement "commitfest software". -- Alvaro Herrera http://www.CommandPrompt.com/ The PostgreSQL Company - Command Prompt, Inc.
Alvaro, >>> 2. reviews have started being crossposted to -rrreviewers and -hackers >>> (worse yet, posted only to the former) >> Oh, you're right, the cross-posting is annoying. Have posted behavioral >> correction to --rrreviewers. > > Maybe it should be a moderated list? I think it's more informative if I send people "don't post this here" replies *on* the list. --Josh
On Wed, 2008-11-05 at 11:20 -0800, Josh Berkus wrote: > Josh, Robert, Peter, > > > Here is a +1 vote to remove it. If it is a public list, -hackers can > > handle it. If it is a private list... why? > > I adore the fact that none of you has volunteered to help organize the > commitfest or the Round Robin Reviewers, but seem intent on telling me > how to do so. Is this an open source project, or a government agency? > > Excuse me for being angry, but the assumption by members of this list > that I am either an idiot or have sinister intentions is both completely > undeserved and aggravating. I feel the same way. I mean who are these people that comment on my work? And in public too. How dare they express their opinions when it was me that wrote the patch? ;-) Look on the bright side, you don't have a deadline to organise the reviews... Thanks for your efforts, Josh. Things are improving and discussion on the process has helped that just as much as discussion on the software. -- Simon Riggs www.2ndQuadrant.comPostgreSQL Training, Services and Support
Marc, > Oops, sorry, my impression from JoshB was that this wasn't a public > list, so shouldn't be listed on archives / community-lists ... Oh, no, it's public. No reason for it to be secret. I was going to moderate subscriptions, but then I realized there was no reason to. -- --Josh Josh Berkus PostgreSQL San Francisco
On Wednesday 05 November 2008 14:20:16 Josh Berkus wrote: > Josh, Robert, Peter, > > > Here is a +1 vote to remove it. If it is a public list, -hackers can > > handle it. If it is a private list... why? > > I adore the fact that none of you has volunteered to help organize the > commitfest or the Round Robin Reviewers, but seem intent on telling me > how to do so. Is this an open source project, or a government agency? > I adore the fact that at the end of the last commitfest, I mentioned that you were supposed to have a helper and you told me you felt ok to handle things without it, but I am now getting chastised for not volunteering to help... Postgres, the worlds most adorable open source database. -- Robert Treat Conjecture: http://www.xzilla.net Consulting: http://www.omniti.com
On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 5:39 AM, Robert Treat <xzilla@users.sourceforge.net> wrote: > On Wednesday 05 November 2008 14:20:16 Josh Berkus wrote: >> I adore the fact that none of you has volunteered to help organize the >> commitfest or the Round Robin Reviewers, but seem intent on telling me >> how to do so. Is this an open source project, or a government agency? >> > > I adore the fact that at the end of the last commitfest, I mentioned that you > were supposed to have a helper and you told me you felt ok to handle things > without it, but I am now getting chastised for not volunteering to help... > > Postgres, the worlds most adorable open source database. Ahh, how sweet :-). Isn't it lovely when everyone plays together nicely? -- Dave Page EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com
On Fri, 2008-11-14 at 08:47 +0000, Dave Page wrote: > On Fri, Nov 14, 2008 at 5:39 AM, Robert Treat > > Postgres, the worlds most adorable open source database. > > Ahh, how sweet :-). Isn't it lovely when everyone plays together nicely? Does this mean I have to change this graphic? http://www.commandprompt.com/images/mammoth_versus_dolphin_500.jpg > > -- > Dave Page > EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com > --
