Обсуждение: Problems with pgsql-announce
All, 1) I thougth we'd set up pgsql-announce so that it didn't bounce to the sender? I'm still getting 20-30 bounce messages every time I post to -announce. 2) For some reason, I got four duplicate checksum warnings for *one* posting to announce. Example: Duplicate posting detected Duplicate Message-ID - <200701080946.29019.josh@postgresql.org> (Mon Jan 8 13:46:12 2007) Duplicate Partial Message Checksum (Mon Jan 8 13:46:12 2007) I'm certain that I sent the message only once, and it showed up on the list promptly. Huh? -- --Josh Josh Berkus PostgreSQL @ Sun San Francisco
On 8 Jan 2007 at 10:55, Josh Berkus wrote: > 1) I thougth we'd set up pgsql-announce so that it didn't bounce to the > sender? I'm still getting 20-30 bounce messages every time I post to > -announce. That is often not the sending MTAs fault. It is often the fault of the receiving MTA which does not or can not differentiate between sender and author, and replies to the author regardless. -- Dan Langille : Software Developer looking for work my resume: http://www.freebsddiary.org/dan_langille.php PGCon - The PostgreSQL Conference - http://www.pgcon.org/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > 1) I thougth we'd set up pgsql-announce so that it didn't bounce to the > sender? I'm still getting 20-30 bounce messages every time I post to > -announce. Could be misconfigured on the sender's end. If you want, send me a list of the offenders and I'll remove 'em. That goes for anyone else as well. > 2) For some reason, I got four duplicate checksum warnings for *one* > posting to announce. Example: Yeah, something weird is going on there. From looking at the moderation queue, it seems everyone is getting three or four duplicates. Maybe we can simply turn that off, Marc? - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200701081430 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFFopwdvJuQZxSWSsgRAqU5AKDXYzVQOHso+Lx4Aqpil4Cz8hvz7gCdHkwq /fqhpGKT3qtjg5MEymDT9ss= =b5kX -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: > >> 1) I thougth we'd set up pgsql-announce so that it didn't bounce to the >> sender? I'm still getting 20-30 bounce messages every time I post to >> -announce. > > Could be misconfigured on the sender's end. If you want, send me a list > of the offenders and I'll remove 'em. That goes for anyone else as well. > >> 2) For some reason, I got four duplicate checksum warnings for *one* >> posting to announce. Example: > > Yeah, something weird is going on there. From looking at the moderation > queue, it seems everyone is getting three or four duplicates. Maybe > we can simply turn that off, Marc? I think we've seen a lot of examples of that "partial message duplicate" filter blocking things it shouldn't. I know Dave had some problems before, and at some point it started blocking almost all mail to the slaves list (because those are very similar *by design*). Do we have any indication that this helps *at all*? If not, we should just turn it off on all the lists... Which reminds me - I saw several emails pop through today after spending >48 hours in the Maia Mailguard. Does that one actually help noticably for list traffic, or just for mailboxes? Because it certainly happens often that it slows down or stops list traffic completely.. //Magnus
Greg, > Yeah, something weird is going on there. From looking at the moderation > queue, it seems everyone is getting three or four duplicates. Maybe > we can simply turn that off, Marc? ... not if duplicates are actually being received; we don't want 3-4 or each message. -- --Josh Josh Berkus PostgreSQL @ Sun San Francisco
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Josh Berkus replied: >> Yeah, something weird is going on there. From looking at the moderation >> queue, it seems everyone is getting three or four duplicates. Maybe >> we can simply turn that off, Marc? > > ... not if duplicates are actually being received; we don't want 3-4 or > each message. I'm not sure what's going on, but it was working before, and now is not, so the recent "cure" may be worse than the disease. I'm pretty sure these are not people *sending* duplicate messages: for example, yesterday's Weekly News appeared three times in the moderation queue, which it never has before. Perhaps it was getting flagged as a duplicate before but not sent to the moderation queue? Somehow I doubt that everyone's mail clients are misconfigured to be sending duplicate mails, so the problem is on our end. Hm...just checked the -announce queue...their are three identical messages from Josh Berkus about the new releases, all claiming the checksum errors. Josh, did you ever get those checksum errors bounced back to you before the change when you posted previously to announce? ISTR this change started with someone complaining about getting those sent back to them? - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200701081540 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFFoq1ivJuQZxSWSsgRAmRyAJ9me1wnE1yHnsNS4abijAA4e4joMwCg7R94 y9T3a1gwpGyxBbDixo2snww= =P3zI -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Greg, > Hm...just checked the -announce queue...their are three identical > messages from Josh Berkus about the new releases, all claiming the > checksum errors. Josh, did you ever get those checksum errors bounced > back to you before the change when you posted previously to announce? > ISTR this change started with someone complaining about getting those > sent back to them? Today's announcement is the first time it's happened to me. -- --Josh Josh Berkus PostgreSQL @ Sun San Francisco
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Monday, January 08, 2007 20:59:19 +0100 Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> wrote: > Greg Sabino Mullane wrote: >> >>> 1) I thougth we'd set up pgsql-announce so that it didn't bounce to the >>> sender? I'm still getting 20-30 bounce messages every time I post to >>> -announce. >> >> Could be misconfigured on the sender's end. If you want, send me a list >> of the offenders and I'll remove 'em. That goes for anyone else as well. >> >>> 2) For some reason, I got four duplicate checksum warnings for *one* >>> posting to announce. Example: >> >> Yeah, something weird is going on there. From looking at the moderation >> queue, it seems everyone is getting three or four duplicates. Maybe >> we can simply turn that off, Marc? > > I think we've seen a lot of examples of that "partial message duplicate" > filter blocking things it shouldn't. I know Dave had some problems > before, and at some point it started blocking almost all mail to the > slaves list (because those are very similar *by design*). > > Do we have any indication that this helps *at all*? If not, we should > just turn it off on all the lists... If ppl want me to remove it altogether, I can ... and we'll see what happens ... you call it :) > > > Which reminds me - I saw several emails pop through today after spending >> 48 hours in the Maia Mailguard. Does that one actually help noticably > for list traffic, or just for mailboxes? Because it certainly happens > often that it slows down or stops list traffic completely.. 'k, nothing shoudl be spending >48 hours in the Maia Mailguard ... all it is is amavisd on steroids ... it only quarantines email marked as spam (>5) and I go through it periodically to make sure un-quarantine emails to help train the bayes filters ... most of what gets 'falsely stuck' tend to be subscribe/unsubscribe requests though ... if you see one that has been 'spending 48 hours', please forward it to me with full headers, as something else is wrong ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFpvyx4QvfyHIvDvMRAgXeAJ48nr50VHXoVJc3pDm9EZXafXd4tACeOsNH lKlzu5ukgdgDxcZrvj4CQjQ= =PoNQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Monday, January 08, 2007 12:02:53 -0800 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote: > Greg, > >> Yeah, something weird is going on there. From looking at the moderation >> queue, it seems everyone is getting three or four duplicates. Maybe >> we can simply turn that off, Marc? > > ... not if duplicates are actually being received; we don't want 3-4 or > each message. Right now, any duplicates are supposed to be shuffled to the moderators queue to deal with ... what the filter is *supposed* to deal with is spam, which tends to be alot of duplicates of the same message with different headers ... If I remove the duplicate altogether, I suspect that there won't be much change on the lists themselves, but I don't know for sure ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFpv0o4QvfyHIvDvMRAh4fAJ46RyMZKD5fi2VfgfDc1uWUhAAMCgCeOV8F PtPbLhUsWcMTQCHYbKeru4o= =nnDt -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > --On Monday, January 08, 2007 12:02:53 -0800 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> > wrote: > >> Greg, > >>> Yeah, something weird is going on there. From looking at the moderation >>> queue, it seems everyone is getting three or four duplicates. Maybe >>> we can simply turn that off, Marc? >> ... not if duplicates are actually being received; we don't want 3-4 or >> each message. > > Right now, any duplicates are supposed to be shuffled to the moderators queue > to deal with ... what the filter is *supposed* to deal with is spam, which > tends to be alot of duplicates of the same message with different headers ... Don't think I ever saw one in the queue. Plenty of bounces though... > If I remove the duplicate altogether, I suspect that there won't be much change > on the lists themselves, but I don't know for sure ... It hasn't made any difference whatsoever to the slaves list, except that we now get the reports we expect to see. I realise there's a difference between that and other lists, but it does still get spam. /D
On Friday 12 January 2007 03:39, Dave Page wrote:
> Marc G. Fournier wrote:
> > --On Monday, January 08, 2007 12:02:53 -0800 Josh Berkus
> > <josh@agliodbs.com>
> >
> > wrote:
> >> Greg,
> >>
> >>> Yeah, something weird is going on there. From looking at the moderation
> >>> queue, it seems everyone is getting three or four duplicates. Maybe
> >>> we can simply turn that off, Marc?
> >>
> >> ... not if duplicates are actually being received; we don't want 3-4 or
> >> each message.
> >
> > Right now, any duplicates are supposed to be shuffled to the moderators
> > queue to deal with ... what the filter is *supposed* to deal with is
> > spam, which tends to be alot of duplicates of the same message with
> > different headers ...
>
> Don't think I ever saw one in the queue. Plenty of bounces though...
>
> > If I remove the duplicate altogether, I suspect that there won't be much
> > change on the lists themselves, but I don't know for sure ...
>
> It hasn't made any difference whatsoever to the slaves list, except that
> we now get the reports we expect to see. I realise there's a difference
> between that and other lists, but it does still get spam.
>
We could change some of the more public but lower traffic lists, like
pgsql-www, first and see how that goes.
--
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
> >>Which reminds me - I saw several emails pop through today after spending > >> 48 hours in the Maia Mailguard. Does that one actually help noticably > > for list traffic, or just for mailboxes? Because it certainly happens > > often that it slows down or stops list traffic completely.. > > 'k, nothing shoudl be spending >48 hours in the Maia Mailguard ... all it is is > amavisd on steroids ... it only quarantines email marked as spam (>5) and I go > through it periodically to make sure un-quarantine emails to help train the > bayes filters ... most of what gets 'falsely stuck' tend to be > subscribe/unsubscribe requests though ... if you see one that has been > 'spending 48 hours', please forward it to me with full headers, as something > else is wrong ... I've definitly seen that happen and more than once. DOn't have one around, but I'll eb sure to collect the headers next time it happens. //Magnus
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 > Right now, any duplicates are supposed to be shuffled to the > moderators queue to deal with ... what the filter is *supposed* > to deal with is spam, which tends to be alot of duplicates of the > same message with different headers ... Please turn it off entirely. I can easily identify spam, but lately I've also had to deal with duplicate legitimate messages, which means checking to see if the message has really been already delivered or not, which means in effect I'm acting as a human checksum checker, which kind of defeats the purpose of the automatic one. I could simply trust the system and reject all messages marked as duplicate checksums, but a false positive is what started all these changes, if I recall correctly. If you want a good test, you could remove it from -general: it gets many, many duplicates (and spam) throughout the day, so I'll be able to give you feedback quick on how the change affects that queue. Thanks, - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200701120941 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFFp54gvJuQZxSWSsgRAkCCAJ4lCtdiNr+v4y8mGT0OjXOF73v4ZgCg72BD NUWrrNTkv2REIs2l8JsC+zY= =W7jB -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> writes:
>> most of what gets 'falsely stuck' tend to be
>> subscribe/unsubscribe requests though ... if you see one that has been
>> 'spending 48 hours', please forward it to me with full headers, as something
>> else is wrong ...
> I've definitly seen that happen and more than once. DOn't have one
> around, but I'll eb sure to collect the headers next time it happens.
Something else I've noticed saveral times in the last week is getting a
delayed copy of something that already came through. These weren't the
usual newbie-sends-another-copy-after-subscribing deal because they came
from established subscribers. I didn't save copies but will next time.
regards, tom lane
On Fri, Jan 12, 2007 at 10:08:51AM -0500, Tom Lane wrote: > Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> writes: > >> most of what gets 'falsely stuck' tend to be > >> subscribe/unsubscribe requests though ... if you see one that has been > >> 'spending 48 hours', please forward it to me with full headers, as something > >> else is wrong ... > > > I've definitly seen that happen and more than once. DOn't have one > > around, but I'll eb sure to collect the headers next time it happens. > > Something else I've noticed saveral times in the last week is getting a > delayed copy of something that already came through. These weren't the > usual newbie-sends-another-copy-after-subscribing deal because they came > from established subscribers. I didn't save copies but will next time. I'm glad it's not just me. I've noticed this a couple of times, but didn't have time to investigate at the time either - I thought it might be my new MUA on the cellphone acting up ;-) //Magnus
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 - --On Friday, January 12, 2007 10:08:51 -0500 Tom Lane <tgl@sss.pgh.pa.us> wrote: > Magnus Hagander <magnus@hagander.net> writes: >>> most of what gets 'falsely stuck' tend to be >>> subscribe/unsubscribe requests though ... if you see one that has been >>> 'spending 48 hours', please forward it to me with full headers, as something >>> else is wrong ... > >> I've definitly seen that happen and more than once. DOn't have one >> around, but I'll eb sure to collect the headers next time it happens. > > Something else I've noticed saveral times in the last week is getting a > delayed copy of something that already came through. These weren't the > usual newbie-sends-another-copy-after-subscribing deal because they came > from established subscribers. I didn't save copies but will next time. Which is why I'm hesitant to remove the duplicate checks ... Just curious though, next time you see this, if you notice it on time, could you send me the full headers? I know this will be a hard one, since I imagine the second comes through as almost a 'deja vu' kind of experience, not simultaneously, but if you get 'lucky' enough to have them both at the same time, be interseting to see the complete message with full headers to compare ... - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFp8TG4QvfyHIvDvMRAlpDAJ9brwpCOjOBDrrY8zQ+bK0F3o10EACglwVh 0RCqqNj0RUJidxLmt8mMYRg= =4fIm -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 >> Something else I've noticed saveral times in the last week is getting a >> delayed copy of something that already came through. These weren't the >> usual newbie-sends-another-copy-after-subscribing deal because they came >> from established subscribers. I didn't save copies but will next time. That was probably me as a result of the checksum moderation thing - I tend to be conservative and approve messages when I am not sure, as it seems better to have duplicates posted rather than to have nothing at all go through. I just approved a duplicate checksum post on hackers by Christopher Browne as a test. It's still early, but so far the -general changes seem to be working out, Marc. - -- Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200701131322 http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFFqSNvvJuQZxSWSsgRAtO5AJ9ASA0MTE7RCVN/aSFv7B2L8YA4aACg3e0S XTZOHZDEDlk4wbRR78r7vFY= =EGmx -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Try that ... see if there are a bunch of dups hitting the list now ... I can turn it back on quickly if there are ... - --On Friday, January 12, 2007 14:45:08 +0000 Greg Sabino Mullane <greg@turnstep.com> wrote: > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > >> Right now, any duplicates are supposed to be shuffled to the >> moderators queue to deal with ... what the filter is *supposed* >> to deal with is spam, which tends to be alot of duplicates of the >> same message with different headers ... > > Please turn it off entirely. I can easily identify spam, but > lately I've also had to deal with duplicate legitimate messages, > which means checking to see if the message has really been already > delivered or not, which means in effect I'm acting as a human checksum > checker, which kind of defeats the purpose of the automatic one. > I could simply trust the system and reject all messages marked as > duplicate checksums, but a false positive is what started all these > changes, if I recall correctly. If you want a good test, you could > remove it from -general: it gets many, many duplicates (and spam) > throughout the day, so I'll be able to give you feedback quick > on how the change affects that queue. > > Thanks, > - -- > Greg Sabino Mullane greg@turnstep.com > PGP Key: 0x14964AC8 200701120941 > http://biglumber.com/x/web?pk=2529DF6AB8F79407E94445B4BC9B906714964AC8 > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > iD8DBQFFp54gvJuQZxSWSsgRAkCCAJ4lCtdiNr+v4y8mGT0OjXOF73v4ZgCg72BD > NUWrrNTkv2REIs2l8JsC+zY= > =W7jB > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > - ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email . scrappy@hub.org MSN . scrappy@hub.org Yahoo . yscrappy Skype: hub.org ICQ . 7615664 -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (FreeBSD) iD8DBQFFqRx94QvfyHIvDvMRAhNjAKDftyOE7/rnOT5IU4trSJWUrQW31QCgqsPj CBAlUnHYh5g83JrYj8pNjZQ= =VCsd -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----