Обсуждение: request: search engine for PostgreSQL site
Hello, as a result of a recent discussion on the PostgreSQL channel on IRC concerning the search function in the documentation area of the PostgreSQL website, I suggest integrating a search function like the one at "http://pgsql.ru". Personally I think the current search function is not that much useful and looking at pgsql.ru yields much better search results. David Fetter asked me to post this request directly to the pgsql-www list, so here I am. Best regards ... Ralph ...
Guys, I sometimes break down and use the onsite search function but I never get what I'm looking for. I get better results using google. Rather than build the search function may I suggest using those hooks that google makes available to search one's own site. I know this isn't new stuff and it has been thrashed out already but the fact remains that the current setup doesn't help me (I can only speak of personal experience) On January 22, 2005 07:41 am, Ralph Graulich wrote: > Hello, > > as a result of a recent discussion on the PostgreSQL channel on IRC > concerning the search function in the documentation area of the PostgreSQL > website, I suggest integrating a search function like the one at > "http://pgsql.ru". > > Personally I think the current search function is not that much useful and > looking at pgsql.ru yields much better search results. > > David Fetter asked me to post this request directly to the pgsql-www list, > so here I am. > > Best regards > ... Ralph ... > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 5: Have you checked our extensive FAQ? > > http://www.postgresql.org/docs/faq -- Robert Bernier PostgreSQL Business Intelligence Analyst, SRA AMERICA (Formerly of One WTC) Consulting, PostgreSQL Services & PowerGres on Windows One Penn Plaza, Suite 1910 New York, NY 10119 Tel: 212.244.8833
> I sometimes break down and use the onsite search function but > I never get what I'm looking for. I get better results using google. Could you kindly assist us in making it better, by specifying 'what you are looking for' where google provides better results? > > Personally I think the current search function is not that much useful > > and looking at pgsql.ru yields much better search results. Same with this one.... What defines 'better results' to you? ... John
My most common searches involves old correspondance from the mail lists when I'm looking for problems and issues that havecropped up before. Most of the returns either point to unrelated documentation or no mentions at all. And when I do geta positive response it quotes old correspondance when I know that there should be mention of newer posts. On January 22, 2005 08:47 am, John Hansen wrote: > > I sometimes break down and use the onsite search function but > > I never get what I'm looking for. I get better results using google. > > Could you kindly assist us in making it better, by specifying 'what you are > looking for' where google provides better results? > > > > Personally I think the current search function is not that much useful > > > and looking at pgsql.ru yields much better search results. > > Same with this one.... What defines 'better results' to you? > > > ... John
> My most common searches involves old correspondance from the > mail lists when I'm looking for problems and issues that have > cropped up before. Most of the returns either point to > unrelated documentation or no mentions at all. And when I do > get a positive response it quotes old correspondance when I > know that there should be mention of newer posts. Could you give me an example of a query that works but returns old threads when you know of newer posts, and one that returnnothing but unrelated information? ... John
Well, the problem has to do with the search box on the home page. A reference of "pg_dump" yields stuff only from documentation.On the other hand I get straight into the mail lists when I do the same search using google i.e. "pg_dump helppostgresql" Using the search box on the mail list archives means starting from the home page and clicking on the mail list button "community"and then clicking again on the link that eventually leads me to "http://archives.postgresql.org/". Then and onlythen do I start getting more relevant searches. Might I suggest that "all" search boxes have a choice of either reference documentation or the mail list but assume thatthe person wants the mail list by default first. On January 22, 2005 10:23 am, John Hansen wrote: > > My most common searches involves old correspondance from the > > mail lists when I'm looking for problems and issues that have > > cropped up before. Most of the returns either point to > > unrelated documentation or no mentions at all. And when I do > > get a positive response it quotes old correspondance when I > > know that there should be mention of newer posts. > > Could you give me an example of a query that works but returns old threads > when you know of newer posts, and one that return nothing but unrelated > information? > > ... John > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 6: Have you searched our list archives? > > http://archives.postgresql.org
Robert Bernier <robert.bernier5@sympatico.ca> writes:
> Might I suggest that "all" search boxes have a choice of either reference documentation or the mail list but assume
thatthe person wants the mail list by default first.
Why would you think that should be the default?
regards, tom lane
On January 22, 2005 04:25 pm, Tom Lane wrote: > Robert Bernier <robert.bernier5@sympatico.ca> writes: > > Might I suggest that "all" search boxes have a choice of either reference > > documentation or the mail list but assume that the person wants the mail > > list by default first. > > Why would you think that should be the default? People search because they want help and help is found by looking at what other people have to say about a given issue. It should be a straight forward process of demonstrating the validity of one format over another. Just Create a search box that favors mails lists and read the hits from any one ip address in a given time span. When you've got enough stats then change the order of the default so that documentation is favored and then track the difference in stats that are being generated. The higher the number of search requests the more likely it means that they aren't getting what they want. If they follow up with many hits on mail list links then that means that they are interested in following the mail list rather than the documenation. cheers Robert Bernier
> -----Original Message----- > From: pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org > [mailto:pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bernier > Sent: 22 January 2005 22:17 > To: Tom Lane > Cc: John Hansen; maillist@shauny.de; pgsql-www@postgresql.org > Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] request: search engine for PostgreSQL site > > > Why would you think that should be the default? > > People search because they want help and help is found by > looking at what > other people have to say about a given issue. The docs are always the first place I look, as they are the authoritative source of published information. However, the searches are context sensitive, they do not try to think for you - for example, if you seach from a docs page, you get results from that doc set. If you search from the archives, you get results for the archives. If you search from the main site, you get results from that site. Having the searches return results only from some site other than the one the user searches from (event if just a default option) will just confuse people. Regards, Dave.
On January 22, 2005 05:27 pm, Dave Page wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org > > [mailto:pgsql-www-owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Robert Bernier > > Sent: 22 January 2005 22:17 > > To: Tom Lane > > Cc: John Hansen; maillist@shauny.de; pgsql-www@postgresql.org > > Subject: Re: [pgsql-www] request: search engine for PostgreSQL site > > > > > Why would you think that should be the default? > > > > People search because they want help and help is found by > > looking at what > > other people have to say about a given issue. > > The docs are always the first place I look, as they are the > authoritative source of published information. > > However, the searches are context sensitive, they do not try to think > for you - for example, if you seach from a docs page, you get results > from that doc set. If you search from the archives, you get results for > the archives. If you search from the main site, you get results from > that site. Having the searches return results only from some site other > than the one the user searches from (event if just a default option) > will just confuse people. ah, and that's the difference. One may think of looking of docs while another will want to look at mail archives. People know enough to go to the site but not understand there's a difference in search. Let's test and find out what approach is the most popular. Design the front page search to explicitly explain and favor a particular approach and then track what happens. > > Regards, Dave. > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 1: subscribe and unsubscribe commands go to majordomo@postgresql.org
On Sat, 22 Jan 2005, Robert Bernier wrote: > On January 22, 2005 04:25 pm, Tom Lane wrote: >> Robert Bernier <robert.bernier5@sympatico.ca> writes: >>> Might I suggest that "all" search boxes have a choice of either reference >>> documentation or the mail list but assume that the person wants the mail >>> list by default first. >> >> Why would you think that should be the default? > > People search because they want help and help is found by looking at what > other people have to say about a given issue. > > It should be a straight forward process of demonstrating the validity of one > format over another. Just Create a search box that favors mails lists and > read the hits from any one ip address in a given time span. > > When you've got enough stats then change the order of the default so that > documentation is favored and then track the difference in stats that are > being generated. > > The higher the number of search requests the more likely it means that they > aren't getting what they want. If they follow up with many hits on mail list > links then that means that they are interested in following the mail list > rather than the documenation. > group search results by site and you'll get what you want. See, for example, http://www.pgsql.ru/db/pgsearch/index.html?q=pg_dump&tmpl=%CF%F0%E8%E2%E5%F2&ps=20&set=&group=2&site= > > cheers > > Robert Bernier > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings > Regards, Oleg _____________________________________________________________ Oleg Bartunov, sci.researcher, hostmaster of AstroNet, Sternberg Astronomical Institute, Moscow University (Russia) Internet: oleg@sai.msu.su, http://www.sai.msu.su/~megera/ phone: +007(095)939-16-83, +007(095)939-23-83
> Using the search box on the mail list archives means starting > from the home page and clicking on the mail list button > "community" and then clicking again on the link that > eventually leads me to "http://archives.postgresql.org/". > Then and only then do I start getting more relevant searches. This was actually the intended behaviour, namely searching the current document set according to context. Eg, go to http://www.postgresql.org/ and you search the entire www site, whereas if you go to http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.0/static/you only search the 8.0 static docs. ... John