Обсуждение: Sun buys MySQL

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Sun buys MySQL

От
"Jonah H. Harris"
Дата:
Just in case you were living under a rock and hadn't heard :)

--
Jonah H. Harris, Sr. Software Architect | phone: 732.331.1324
EnterpriseDB Corporation                | fax: 732.331.1301
499 Thornall Street, 2nd Floor          | jonah.harris@enterprisedb.com
Edison, NJ 08837                        | http://www.enterprisedb.com/

Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
Ron Peterson
Дата:
I appreciate the laissez-faire way PostgreSQL development works, but
I've always wondered if the project wouldn't benefit from incorporating
somehow.  I believe a corporate charter can say pretty much anything you
want it to, including 'we are a a bunch of anarchists and intend to stay
that way'; but were there such an entity, it would increase the
possibilities of similar good fortune befalling the PostgreSQL project.

Core only.

No deals with devils.

-Ron-


Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
Ron,

> No deals with devils.

But wouldn't that disqualify being bought out?

--
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
"Jonah H. Harris"
Дата:
On Jan 16, 2008 6:23 PM, Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com> wrote:
> > No deals with devils.
>
> But wouldn't that disqualify being bought out?

:)

--
Jonah H. Harris, Sr. Software Architect | phone: 732.331.1324
EnterpriseDB Corporation                | fax: 732.331.1301
499 Thornall Street, 2nd Floor          | jonah.harris@enterprisedb.com
Edison, NJ 08837                        | http://www.enterprisedb.com/

Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
Ron Peterson
Дата:
2008-01-16_18:23:31-0500 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>:
> Ron,
>
> > No deals with devils.
>
> But wouldn't that disqualify being bought out?

Not necessarily.  Corporations and free software aren't necessarily
incompatible.  What's wrong with a company giving you a bunch of money
to do what you were already doing anyway?  Why would they do that?
Because they are afraid you might could be purchased by some one else
with other intentions.  For marketing reasons.  Because they believe in
what you are doing.

I was talking to some of the Berkeley DBXML guys at OracleOpenworld in
SF recently.  They seem very happy.  I asked them if they had felt
pressured to change their development methodologies, their vision, their
license.  No to all of that - which to me was a real surprise.

That's not the kind of world I inhabit, so I'm certainly no expert on
these matters, but it's certainly something to chew on.  "PostgreSQL
Developers Make Good" is a headline I wouldn't mind seeing someday.

-Ron-

Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
Ron Peterson wrote:
> 2008-01-16_18:23:31-0500 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>:
>> Ron,

> That's not the kind of world I inhabit, so I'm certainly no expert on
> these matters, but it's certainly something to chew on.  "PostgreSQL
> Developers Make Good" is a headline I wouldn't mind seeing someday.

You realize that a corporation is able to donate money any time they want?

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
Ron Peterson
Дата:
2008-01-16_22:03:11-0500 "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com>:
> Ron Peterson wrote:
> >2008-01-16_18:23:31-0500 Josh Berkus <josh@agliodbs.com>:
> >>Ron,
>
> >That's not the kind of world I inhabit, so I'm certainly no expert on
> >these matters, but it's certainly something to chew on.  "PostgreSQL
> >Developers Make Good" is a headline I wouldn't mind seeing someday.
>
> You realize that a corporation is able to donate money any time they want?

Really?  I didn't know that.  :)

My suspicion is that most corporations don't believe such donations
would have the same benefit to the corporation as an outright purchase.

Sun, for example, can now claim to be _the_ definitive provider of MySQL
support services, rather than merely being one of many sponsors.  That
is the return on their investment.  There are plenty of PHB's who want
so-called "enterprise" support, and who will pay good money for it.
Where should they buy that support for MySQL?  Sun, of course.

A purchase gives Sun a certain exclusivity that they could never buy
with a mere donation.

--
Ron Peterson
https://www.yellowbank.com/

Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
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On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:04:41 -0500
Ron Peterson <ron.peterson@yellowbank.com> wrote:


> > You realize that a corporation is able to donate money any time
> > they want?
> 
> Really?  I didn't know that.  :)

http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate

It is 501c3 and everything.

> 
> My suspicion is that most corporations don't believe such donations
> would have the same benefit to the corporation as an outright
> purchase.

Same benefit? No. Still a benefit? yes.

> 
> Sun, for example, can now claim to be _the_ definitive provider of
> MySQL support services, rather than merely being one of many
> sponsors.  That is the return on their investment.  There are plenty
> of PHB's who want so-called "enterprise" support, and who will pay
> good money for it. Where should they buy that support for MySQL?
> Sun, of course.

Well sure, and all those PHBs can also buy "enterprise" support from
Command Prompt (and several new ones do every month). Heck they can
even buy from EnterpriseDB. Enterprise is in the name for goodness
sake ;)

> 
> A purchase gives Sun a certain exclusivity that they could never buy
> with a mere donation.
> 

I don't argue that it is an interesting strategic move for Sun. They
paid entirely too much but that isn't really relevant for us.

What is important as that all this is going to do is invigorate our
community further. I guarantee you we will start to see even more
influx of new community members with this purchase.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake



- -- 
The PostgreSQL Company: Since 1997, http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
SELECT 'Training', 'Consulting' FROM vendor WHERE name = 'CMD'


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Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
Ron Peterson
Дата:
2008-01-16_23:17:33-0500 "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com>:

> > Sun, for example, can now claim to be _the_ definitive provider of
> > MySQL support services, rather than merely being one of many
> > sponsors.  That is the return on their investment.  There are plenty
> > of PHB's who want so-called "enterprise" support, and who will pay
> > good money for it. Where should they buy that support for MySQL?
> > Sun, of course.
>
> Well sure, and all those PHBs can also buy "enterprise" support from
> Command Prompt (and several new ones do every month). Heck they can
> even buy from EnterpriseDB. Enterprise is in the name for goodness
> sake ;)

Of course - and they would be in great hands if they did so.

> > A purchase gives Sun a certain exclusivity that they could never buy
> > with a mere donation.
>
> I don't argue that it is an interesting strategic move for Sun. They
> paid entirely too much but that isn't really relevant for us.
>
> What is important as that all this is going to do is invigorate our
> community further. I guarantee you we will start to see even more
> influx of new community members with this purchase.

Of course I'm still a PostgreSQL bigot myself, but I think this move
does more to invigorate MySQL than PostgreSQL.  But that was not really
my point.

My point was that MySQL could be an acquisition target because they have
a clearly defined organizational structure; and that they are much more
valuable to Sun as an acquisition than as a charity case.  Lacking any
formal structure, it's difficult to surmise how something similar could
ever happen to PostgreSQL.  It seems to me that situation is at least
worth examining from time to time.

Best.

--
Ron Peterson
https://www.yellowbank.com/

Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
Ron Peterson
Дата:
2008-01-16_23:17:33-0500 "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com>:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:04:41 -0500
> Ron Peterson <ron.peterson@yellowbank.com> wrote:
>
>
> > > You realize that a corporation is able to donate money any time
> > > they want?
> >
> > Really?  I didn't know that.  :)
>
> http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
>
> It is 501c3 and everything.

Yes, yes.  I was just attempting to inject a little fourth grade level
rhetorical humor.  My jokes just aren't funny - I should know that by
now.

--
Ron Peterson
https://www.yellowbank.com/

Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
Ron Peterson wrote:
> 2008-01-16_23:17:33-0500 "Joshua D. Drake" <jd@commandprompt.com>:

> My point was that MySQL could be an acquisition target because they have
> a clearly defined organizational structure; and that they are much more
> valuable to Sun as an acquisition than as a charity case.

Agreed.

> Lacking any
> formal structure, it's difficult to surmise how something similar could
> ever happen to PostgreSQL.  It seems to me that situation is at least
> worth examining from time to time.
>

Do not agree. The main body of the community all agree that the "code"
is best left without a formal body. If a company wants to buy into
PostgreSQL they are going to have to do it the old fashion way, earn it.

(code contribution, lots of contributors, lots of contributors, being a
good community member, sucking it up when they are wrong)

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake



Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
Bruce Momjian
Дата:
Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > Lacking any
> > formal structure, it's difficult to surmise how something similar could
> > ever happen to PostgreSQL.  It seems to me that situation is at least
> > worth examining from time to time.
> >
>
> Do not agree. The main body of the community all agree that the "code"
> is best left without a formal body. If a company wants to buy into
> PostgreSQL they are going to have to do it the old fashion way, earn it.
>
> (code contribution, lots of contributors, lots of contributors, being a
> good community member, sucking it up when they are wrong)

Agreed.  Our current setup makes us almost destruction-proof.  If you
look at the databases which have declined since we started in 1996, you
can see this is a valuable attribute.

In fact if you look just at MySQL, MySQL has done some things that have
hurt their adoption.  While everyone makes mistakes, MySQL's hurtful
actions were done for motivations (profitability) which are not shared by
Postgres.

--
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://postgres.enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
Chris Browne
Дата:
jd@commandprompt.com ("Joshua D. Drake") writes:
> On Wed, 16 Jan 2008 23:04:41 -0500
> Ron Peterson <ron.peterson@yellowbank.com> wrote:
>> A purchase gives Sun a certain exclusivity that they could never buy
>> with a mere donation.

> I don't argue that it is an interesting strategic move for Sun. They
> paid entirely too much but that isn't really relevant for us.

I think it puts Sun on Oracle's "radar" with perspective as a target,
as opposed to their usual "partner" status, which seems not so good to
me.

I wonder how it will all interact with the past posturing of MySQL AB
that was *very* much fine tuned towards pointing at an intersection
with SAP AG.  (MANY of the things MySQL AB was doing between 2003 and
about 2006 seemed to have that focus, between involvement with
SAP-DB/MaxDB and the set of MySQL(tm) enhancements that seemed
exquisitely targeted at making MySQL a potential platform for SAP's
applications...)

> What is important as that all this is going to do is invigorate our
> community further. I guarantee you we will start to see even more
> influx of new community members with this purchase.

I'm inclined to watch what happens for a while before drawing such
conclusions.

Sun's "open source" involvements have come with enough caveats that
I'm inclined to expect a continuation of policies likely to turn off
non-paying users.  And an important reason behind paying $1B is if
they're mighty interested in growing the revenues from paying users...

But the shape of what will actually happen seems pretty difficult to
predict.
--
"cbbrowne","@","linuxdatabases.info"
http://linuxfinances.info/info/nonrdbms.html
"He who  writes the code gets  to choose his license,  and nobody else
gets to complain." -- Linus Torvalds

Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
Bruce Momjian
Дата:
Chris Browne wrote:
> I'm inclined to watch what happens for a while before drawing such
> conclusions.
>
> Sun's "open source" involvements have come with enough caveats that
> I'm inclined to expect a continuation of policies likely to turn off
> non-paying users.  And an important reason behind paying $1B is if
> they're mighty interested in growing the revenues from paying users...

I think the biggest impact might be less enthusiasm from Red Hat and
Linux vendors toward MySQL because Sun is a direct Linux competitor.

--
  Bruce Momjian  <bruce@momjian.us>        http://momjian.us
  EnterpriseDB                             http://postgres.enterprisedb.com

  + If your life is a hard drive, Christ can be your backup. +

Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
Simon Riggs
Дата:
On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 12:35 -0500, Chris Browne wrote:
> And an important reason behind paying $1B

Insightful stuff. $1B is too round a number to be a real valuation,
IMHO. I'm not really certain they would do that.

Certainly Sun would be foolish to pay $1B for MySQL when Oracle and IBM
had already paid so much less for profitable and strategic pieces of the
MySQL cake.

Shame they didn't pay $999 million. We could go a long way with $1m. :-)

--
  Simon Riggs
  2ndQuadrant  http://www.2ndQuadrant.com


Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
Chris Browne
Дата:
simon@2ndquadrant.com (Simon Riggs) writes:
> On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 12:35 -0500, Chris Browne wrote:
>> And an important reason behind paying $1B
>
> Insightful stuff. $1B is too round a number to be a real valuation,
> IMHO. I'm not really certain they would do that.

They didn't; as is pretty standard, in such matters, the total
"valuation" was comprised of a combination of cash and Sun stock
options.  Mind you, there is $800M of cash involved, and *only* $200M
worth of stock options.

I expect that the ratios frequently go the other way...

> Certainly Sun would be foolish to pay $1B for MySQL when Oracle and
> IBM had already paid so much less for profitable and strategic
> pieces of the MySQL cake.

I'll give you strategic, but I'm not so sure about profitability.  In
a way, we may now find out more, because rather than being a private
firm, MySQL now is rolled into a publicly traded one...
--
"cbbrowne","@","linuxdatabases.info"
http://www3.sympatico.ca/cbbrowne/linux.html
"Few people can be happy  unless they hate someother person, nation or
creed."  -- Bertrand Russell

Re: Sun buys MySQL

От
"Joshua D. Drake"
Дата:
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On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 16:20:07 -0500
Chris Browne <cbbrowne@acm.org> wrote:

> simon@2ndquadrant.com (Simon Riggs) writes:
> > On Thu, 2008-01-17 at 12:35 -0500, Chris Browne wrote:
> >> And an important reason behind paying $1B 

A follow up to this. Selena just got quoted by EWeek on this very topic.
As did our Lead Integrator? Bruce Momjian.

http://www.eweek.com/c/a/Database/PostgreSQL-Community-Ponders-Effect-of-MySQL-Acquisition/

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

- -- 
The PostgreSQL Company: Since 1997, http://www.commandprompt.com/ 
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564   24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
Donate to the PostgreSQL Project: http://www.postgresql.org/about/donate
SELECT 'Training', 'Consulting' FROM vendor WHERE name = 'CMD'


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