Re: [IMPORTANT] postgresql live-cd

Re: [IMPORTANT] postgresql live-cd

Koen Martens wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> Based on all of this, I would ask that I have the ISO no later then
>> thursday if possible.
> 
> Well, let me know which one you prefer. The stuff we've been working
> on, or the one based on ubuntu. We can have the ISO ready by
> tomorrow, incorporating most of the comments on this list. But only
> if it makes sense. If the ubuntu one is going to be used, i'm not
> going to put more effort in this. I hate doing work that is only a
> duplication of what others are doing, that gives me no satisfaction
> at all.
> 
> Gr,
> 
> Koen

speaking for myself, I think we should cut some of BOTH.

Koen,
   Please don't give up on contributing.  We need ALL the contributions from
EVERYONE
to keep the project moving forward.

Larry Rosenman

-- 
Larry Rosenman                     http://www.lerctr.org/~ler
Phone: +1 512-248-2683                 E-Mail: ler@lerctr.org
US Mail: 430 Valona Loop, Round Rock, TX 78681-3893

Re: postgresql live-cd

Koen,

About the database. Perhaps we could use the sample databases existing
in the pgfoundry. But I guess I we want to show all the PG's power we
should build database demoing all the capabilities.

Regards,
Gevik

Re: postgresql live-cd

Koen,

> Introducing myself: Koen Martens, the person who took up the task of
> creating a live cd containing (at least) postgresql and pgadmin3, to
> be handed out on conferences (http://pgfoundry.org/projects/livecd/).

OK, you are now an admin of the project.

Also, a user sent me a note that Lampix CD distro already contains PostgreSQL:
> http://lamppix.tinowagner.com/en/mini/

I don't know if that helps us any, but there it is.

-- 
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

Re: postgresql live-cd

On Wednesday 14 June 2006 11:45, Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
> Hello Robert,
>
> Robert Bernier wrote:
> > Have you had a look at the original pg_live?
> >
> > http://sraapowergres.com/en/downloads/pg_live.1.3.4-SRAA.iso.torrent
>
> No, just heard of it. Unfortunately, the review link on the website is
> broken. 

Which link is broken? I'll pass on the word to get it fixed.

> What is it built on?

based upon damn small linux

> What else does it offer beside PostgreSQL?  

- custom documentation
- postgres reference documentation
- apache php enabled
- ssh server
- postgres with many procedural lanuages (pltcl, plperl, plpython, etc...) and slony replication 
- X11 using a very fast gui
- phppgadmin
- firefox
- various hacker tools

cheers

Re: postgresql live-cd

On Wednesday 14 June 2006 13:11, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Robert Bernier wrote:
> > On Wednesday 14 June 2006 11:45, Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
> >> Hello Robert,
> >>
> >> Robert Bernier wrote:
> >>> Have you had a look at the original pg_live?
> >>>
> >>> http://sraapowergres.com/en/downloads/pg_live.1.3.4-SRAA.iso.torrent
> >>
> >> No, just heard of it. Unfortunately, the review link on the website is
> >> broken.
> >
> > Which link is broken? I'll pass on the word to get it fixed.
> >
> >> What is it built on?
> >
> > based upon damn small linux
> >
> >> What else does it offer beside PostgreSQL?
> >
> > - custom documentation
> > - postgres reference documentation
> > - apache php enabled
> > - ssh server
> > - postgres with many procedural lanuages (pltcl, plperl, plpython,
> > etc...) and slony replication - X11 using a very fast gui
> > - phppgadmin
> > - firefox
> > - various hacker tools
>
> Which version of PostgreSQL?

It's an 8.0 version but updating that to the most up to date versoin is truly trivial. What concerns me, and what has stopped me from undertaking the exercise, is that the distro itself no longer supports the latest hardware drivers.

cheers

robert

Re: postgresql live-cd

On Wednesday 14 June 2006 13:25, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Koen,
>
> > Introducing myself: Koen Martens, the person who took up the task of
> > creating a live cd containing (at least) postgresql and pgadmin3, to
> > be handed out on conferences (http://pgfoundry.org/projects/livecd/).
>
> OK, you are now an admin of the project.

congratulations ;-)

> Also, a user sent me a note that Lampix CD distro already contains
> PostgreSQL: http://lamppix.tinowagner.com/en/mini/ ....


Now there's the challenge, what's it going to do this live CD?

The damn small linux version made it truly a pain when I hacked the system to 
install the necesary tools. Does lamppix, for example, still have enough of 
the apt package system present to allow bringing other tools and honour 
library updates (it too is based upon the damn small distro)?

I've been thinking of bootstrapping xubuntu since I know that the libraries 
haven't been hacked thus making system updates for new hardware possible. 
however, there is tedious work ahead eliminating packages and reducing the 
size.

On the other hand, I like the idea of creating it from scratch because then 
I'm guarenteed of a small distro with only the barest of stuff present.

May I suggest the starting point be with pg_live. Look at what it has and 
debate the issues from there.

cheers

robert bernier
	(creator of pg_live)

Re: postgresql live-cd

Koen,

> Now, my idea is to create one of those nifty credit-card sized cd's,
> that fits in your wallet. We'd base that on DSL (Damn Small Linux)
> 2.4 probably.

Hmmm ... I'm going to argue against the credit card sized CD for two 
reasons:

1) more expensive than a regular CD (like, 3x in quantity).
2) incompatible with 50% of Combo Drives.

Also, having used Robert's DSL-based distribution last time, one bit of 
feedback we got was that the desktop was kind of ... minimalist.  This is 
a piece of advertising; it should look good when users boot it up.  So I'd 
push for something like Knoppix or Kubuntu, or something else eye-candish.

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

Re: postgresql live-cd

On Wednesday 14 June 2006 20:27, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> I suggest we use Ubuntu Dapper, basic install with Xubuntu-Desktop,
> PostgreSQL 8.1.4 and pgAdminIII.

I agree

> This should be fairly trivial if we use something like:
> http://www.linux-live.org/

you could use the existing boot strap on the XUBUNTU iso and edit the squashed 
file system directly...

http://www.atworkonline.it/~bibe/ubuntu/custom-livecd.htm

cheers

robert

Re: postgresql live-cd

Robert, Josh, Koen, All:

To re-phrase:   Koen specifically volunteered to help on this based on my 
recruitment e-mail in PWN after nine months of live-CD non-activity.   
Unless he (she?) gives up, Koen is the live-CD project lead for the time 
being.

One of the things that Open Source is about is not gratuitously duplicating 
effort.   This means, Robert, that you should be working with Koen, not 
duplicating his efforts.  Clear?

-- 
--Josh

Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

Re: postgresql live-cd

On Thursday 15 June 2006 08:15, Koen Martens wrote:
> We already started basing the live cd on knoppix yesterday, but that
> is of course no reason to not switch to ubuntu now. I am not too
> keen on ubuntu, it tends to break quickly. I think sticking with the
> excellent hardware detection support of knoppix is a pre.

FYI, I've finished my iso development environment and am currently doing a 
test burn of a xubuntu iso. 

What I want to do, in addition to installing postgres and all its bells and 
whistles, is to customized the entire 'look' of the iso i.e. edit the 
isolinux configuration files


> Furthermore, since i have gotten a lot of convincing arguments not
> to use ccard-shaped or mini cd's, we're going for a normal CD. Which
> means space is not too much of a problem anymore.

For me, the issue is making it available for downloads i.e. make available two 
versions.

cheers

Re: postgresql live-cd

Koen,

On Thursday 15 June 2006 11:37, Koen Martens wrote:
> Ok, so there is no need for our work anymore? Bit of a waste that we
> worked 2 days on it already then, but ok. Would be nice to know in
> advance in the future that someone else is already going to do the
> work, saves people from wasting time.

You didn't waste your time by a long shot. Without your posting I'd still be procrastinating. You gave me a quick kick in the ass and got me going.

Besides, who says that you can't do a decent job of creating a live-cd? If you have the time I think it would be great if you could follow through with what you started and come up with a working version.

cheers

robert

Re: postgresql live-cd

Koen,

> Let me know what you think. There's a lot more to do of course,
> install apps, more graphics and stuff, better 'home page' etc..

Sorry I've not yet gotten feedback to you on this.   I've discovered that I 
don't have a convenient x86 machine which can boot from CD (!).

Has anyone else been able to try this?  Please?   We really need to order CDs 
at the beginning of July.

-- 
Josh Berkus
PostgreSQL @ Sun
San Francisco

Re: postgresql live-cd

Hello,

I just tested this. The intro is nice but I am unable to launch X. I wouldn't 
sweat it, because it is a common problem with my laptop. My Laptop requires 
vesa, but X detects the ATI and tries to use it (but it fails).

I did bounce over to a console and postgresql is running, but nothing in it.


Anyone else able to try it out?

Joshua D. Drake

Re: postgresql live-cd

Hello Koen,

I've downloaded your iso and had a look at it.

On Friday 30 June 2006 07:03, Koen Martens wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > I just tested this. The intro is nice but I am unable to launch X. I
> > wouldn't sweat it, because it is a common problem with my laptop. My
> > Laptop requires vesa, but X detects the ATI and tries to use it (but it
> > fails).

My own laptop loaded up fine into X, looks nice. 

Can you have konquorer appear automatically on bootup? Add english language bookmarks on konqueror for the postgres references and configure the home page button to your introduction page.


> I bet there's a boot option for that, probably 'xmodule=vesa' (see
> also http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Cheat_Codes).

It might be useful if you could offer a README screen for a particular function button as the CD boots up and explain what to do for certain situations such as suggesting command line options for the boot up sequence.

Maybe you could install the console based webbrowser, elinks, which will permit the user to read the postgresql documentation without the need of a graphics environment. Have it load up automatically in one of the virtual consoles such as tty1.

> > I did bounce over to a console and postgresql is running, but nothing in
> > it.

ahh, sample databases with some tables ... maybe some csv files can be made available with some instruction on how to load them thus saving the user any grief if his machine is short on RAM.

What do you think about configuring the user's database to have procedural languages already installed?

Can you document and state at boot up time the minimum amount of RAM for graphic and non-graphic environments? Running the iso on a 'free' version of vmware is an easy way identifying the requirements.

Hope this is helpfull.


cheers

Re: postgresql live-cd

On Friday 30 June 2006 17:17, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Jim,
>
> > As a reminder, Pervasive would be happy to handle production of the CDs.
>
> The goal is to avoid putting any company's name on them this time so
> that the CDs can be used at multiple conferences.

Pervasive could however, contribute to the PostgreSQL SPI fund to help pay for 
the cds if they like. It is tax deductible.

Joshua D. Drake


>
> --Josh Berkus
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
>        subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
>        message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Re: postgresql live-cd

On Fri, Jun 30, 2006 at 01:03:23PM +0200, Koen Martens wrote:
> cd label design too? Who is in charge of the production process, 
> finance and stuff like that?

As a reminder, Pervasive would be happy to handle production of the CDs.
-- 
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant      jnasby@pervasive.com
Pervasive Software      http://pervasive.com    work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf       cell: 512-569-9461

Re: postgresql live-cd

On Wednesday 05 July 2006 06:54, Stephen Slezak wrote:
> How much y'all need?

I will be able to let you know this week.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


>
> S
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joshua D. Drake [mailto:jd@commandprompt.com]
> Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:34 AM
> To: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
> Cc: Josh Berkus; Jim Nasby; Koen Martens; robin@sonologic.nl; Stephen
> Slezak
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] postgresql live-cd
>
> On Friday 30 June 2006 17:17, Josh Berkus wrote:
> > Jim,
> >
> > > As a reminder, Pervasive would be happy to handle production of the
> > > CDs.
> >
> > The goal is to avoid putting any company's name on them this time so
> > that the CDs can be used at multiple conferences.
>
> Pervasive could however, contribute to the PostgreSQL SPI fund to help pay
> for the cds if they like. It is tax deductible.
>
> Joshua D. Drake
>
> > --Josh Berkus
> >
> > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> > TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
> >        subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
> >        message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Re: postgresql live-cd

On Wednesday 05 July 2006 08:14, Koen Martens wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > On Wednesday 05 July 2006 06:54, Stephen Slezak wrote:
> >> How much y'all need?
> >
> > I will be able to let you know this week.
>
> We'll probably have a last version of the CD ready today, although
> it is lacking a bit into the example databases department. It has
> procedural languages, but you need to enable them when you create a
> database. There is currently no example database using procedural
> languages on the iso.

Why not add the languages to template1 so that they are created automatically?

>
>
> Joshua, when do you need the master image?
>

No later then Friday morning PST.


> Gr,
>
> Koen

[IMPORTANT] postgresql live-cd

Hello,

I have been working on getting a company to press the cd's for us. I am fairly 
certain I have been successful but, we can NOT delay the delivery of the ISO. 
We are already pushing it by giving only two weeks for them.

So everyone knows:

QTY: 2000 cds
White Envelope with Window
Insertion included in cost
Full color label with blue elephant

Based on all of this, I would ask that I have the ISO no later then thursday 
if possible.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


-- 
   === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
   Providing the most comprehensive  PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
                     http://www.commandprompt.com/

Re: postgresql live-cd

On Wednesday 05 July 2006 11:14, Koen Martens wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > On Wednesday 05 July 2006 06:54, Stephen Slezak wrote:
> >> How much y'all need?
> >
> > I will be able to let you know this week.
>
> We'll probably have a last version of the CD ready today, although
> it is lacking a bit into the example databases department. It has
> procedural languages, but you need to enable them when you create a
> database. There is currently no example database using procedural
> languages on the iso.
>
> We'll check out some of the other live cd's for example db's for a
> very last release i think, although we did seem to have trouble
> locating them.
>
> If someone has a bundle of nice example databases lying around ->
> please mail me!
>

The pagila sample database has sql and plpgsql functions, a custom aggregate 
and custom domain, and optionally tsearch2 as well.  You can get it from the 
sample databases project at http://pgfoundry.org/projects/dbsamples/

-- 
Robert Treat
Build A Brighter LAMP :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL

Re: postgresql live-cd

Guys,

I'm announcing that I'm on the tailend of completing my own implementation of 
pg_live.  It's based on Ubuntu so it has full installation capabilities if 
the user wants it.

The full version weighs in around 720mb but that's going to drop after I have 
removed the language packages that aren't required in an English only 
environment. 

There's a lot of documentation that I've added in added to the standard 
reference documentation. All of which is accesible through its own http 
webserver.

Here's an excerpt of the iso's README file:

===============================
FEATURES
Pg_live is a sophisticated environment that runs a number of services on 
bootup and includes:

- Apache, which is enabled with PHP
- SSH server thus allowing secure logins from other workstations that are on 
the same network
- PostgreSQL, version 8.1.4
- pgpool, the PostgreSQL connection pool daemon

The PostgreSQL server has been preconfigured with the following procedural 
languages:
         plpgsql
         plr
         plperl
         plperlu
         plpythonu
         pltcl
         pltclu
         plphp
         plphpu

The following interpretative programing languages are included:
         perl
         python
         R
         tcl
         PHP

OTHER
- Postgresql contributions
- SLONY (with lots of example scripts)

POSTGRESQL CLIENTS AND UTILITIES
        pgadmin3
        phppgadmin
        psql

The console based web-browser, ELINKS, is ideal when running in "console only" 
mode. Thus permitting access to otherwise inaccesible GUI features such as 
pg_live's Apache PHP client, phppgadmin, and of course the included reference 
documentation.

HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS
  - GUI, 160MB RAM (default boot, all services running)
  - GUI, 125MB RAM (runlevel 4, no services running)
  - CONSOLE, 55MB RAM (single user mode, runlevel 1, no services running)
  - CONSOLE, 90MB RAM (runlevel 3, all services running)



On Wednesday 05 July 2006 11:28, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> On Wednesday 05 July 2006 08:14, Koen Martens wrote:
> > Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 05 July 2006 06:54, Stephen Slezak wrote:
> > >> How much y'all need?
> > >
> > > I will be able to let you know this week.
> >
> > We'll probably have a last version of the CD ready today, although
> > it is lacking a bit into the example databases department. It has
> > procedural languages, but you need to enable them when you create a
> > database. There is currently no example database using procedural
> > languages on the iso.
>
> Why not add the languages to template1 so that they are created
> automatically?
>
> > Joshua, when do you need the master image?
>
> No later then Friday morning PST.
>
> > Gr,
> >
> > Koen
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster

-- 
Robert Bernier
PostgreSQL Business Intelligence Analyst
SRA AMERICA (Formerly of One WTC)
PostgreSQL Services:Consulting,Migration,Support and Training
One Penn Plaza, Suite 1910
New York, NY 10119

Tel:  212.244.8833 ext:22

www.sraapowergres.com  robertb@sraapowergres.com
www.sraamerica.com

Re: postgresql live-cd

$1225.00

and of course more if you can spare it. The SPI account is used for more then 
just this, so anytime you can contribute it would be good.

https://128bit.clickandpledge.com/default.aspx?ID=12235&cid=US&a=

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake

-- 
   === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
   Providing the most comprehensive  PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
             http://www.commandprompt.com/

Re: postgresql live-cd

On Wednesday 05 July 2006 16:26, Koen Martens wrote:
> I wish i had known this all, i would have never gotten in to this. I
> put one of my employees on this, it has cost me money. Apparently,
> there was no need for our effort afterall, so I basically wasted
> money. Bit disappointed here. What a complete waste of time this has
> been.

I see this as a good thing that the community has a choice. After all, Ubuntu 
doesn't boot up into everything and knoppix doesn't either. 

Providing something for the community is never a waste of time or money.


robert

Re: [IMPORTANT] postgresql live-cd

I will notify you of the url when the I've completed an upload of the latest version of the pg_live iso in the next few hours.

On Wednesday 05 July 2006 16:45, Koen Martens wrote:
> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> > Based on all of this, I would ask that I have the ISO no later then
> > thursday if possible.
>
> Well, let me know which one you prefer. The stuff we've been working
> on, or the one based on ubuntu. We can have the ISO ready by
> tomorrow, incorporating most of the comments on this list. But only
> if it makes sense. If the ubuntu one is going to be used, i'm not
> going to put more effort in this. I hate doing work that is only a
> duplication of what others are doing, that gives me no satisfaction
> at all.
>
> Gr,
>
> Koen

Re: postgresql live-cd

On Wednesday 05 July 2006 17:47, Chris Browne wrote:
> pgsql@metro.cx (Koen Martens) writes:
> > I wish i had known this all, i would have never gotten in to this. I
> > put one of my employees on this, it has cost me money. Apparently,
> > there was no need for our effort afterall, so I basically wasted
> > money. Bit disappointed here. What a complete waste of time this has
> > been.
>
> Surely not...  It's a good thing to get fresh faces involved with
> this.

here here!

> A "nice to have" would be for there to be two CDs with somewhat
> varying intents.  If discussion over the last year means anything,
> there is a desire for there to be a FreeBSD-based "live CD," and if
> that emerges, it seems an excellent idea to have a choice of both a
> Linux-based option and a FreeBSD-based option.  Nothing wrong with
> that.

And I have the perfect candidate, Dru Lavigne. She just this week completed a multi install dvd where you can choose to install either FreeBSD, DragonFly, Open or Net BSD and that includes all the documentation for each distro AND the latest material for the BSDcertification initiative.

Why not ask her, she'll be at the conference this weekend?

Re: postgresql live-cd

Hello Robin,

On Thursday 06 July 2006 10:09, Robin Gareus wrote:
>  * improved support for non X11 mode. (gpm, auto-start
>    doc.browser on tty1,..)

gpm is a good idea;  I find it very usefull

> stay tuned. I'm just uploading the new image.

I'm curious too :-)

> Reading 'tru the Ubuntu pg-live feature list. I find that it has about
> the same Features as our knoppix pg-live but the Knoppix variant is
> somewhat more lightweight:

Yeah, the first time I develop pg_live (2yrs ago) I thought in terms of downloading the iso off the internet. This time around it's more about completeness.

>  - apache + pgphpadmin, sshd,... are installed but not started by
>    default. (there's even a start button in the KDE menu for 'em ;-)

another good idea i.e. make sure the user knows he has a choice

>  - procedural lang support seems to be identical (perl,tcl,php,r,python)

Did you create an R environment for plr?

>    and so are the various contrib packages (slony, tsearch2, pgpool,...)
>
> > It's based on Ubuntu so it has full installation capabilities if
> > the user wants it.
>
> knoppix can install itself, too (create persistant disk-image Button in
> the KDE menu) 

It's been a year since I looked at knoppix, has it become easier to install?


> - I don't want to start an Ubuntu vs. Knoppix thread 
> now... but AFAICT the Knoppix autoconfiguration is suitable for more
> Systems than Ubuntu...

I wanted to try out Xubuntu just for the fun of it (it uses squashfs as opposed to the knoppix cloop).

The biggest difference I found was the simplicity of installing Xubuntu as a working system. The distro has a cool bootup sequence.

> > There's a lot of documentation that I've added in added to the
> > standard reference documentation.
>
> If your doc is not specific the ubuntu-live-cd it would be great if we
> can include them.. - I'd also be interested in the slony example scripts
> that you mention.

The documentation is part of my writings written for various publications from the past few years. You may use my articles but please keep my copyright on them.

Another request, please do not change the text without first consulting with me (after all this is my bread and butter).

Be advised pg_live includes documentation from one other author, the R tutorial.

I would like to see the development of a standard set of documentation for future live-cds and see about getting them translated into other languages thus enabling non-english venues with a live cd. Perhaps doing it in French could be the next translation. Comments?

cheers

Robert

Re: postgresql live-cd

Bonjour Guillaume,

Do you have a copy of the CD with the documentation?

I would say the first step is to acquire the the french language version of the postgresql pages and install them onto the CD. The next step is to configure the bookmarks on the browser for a franco version.

We then have to configure the boot up sequence to automatically choose the correct set of documents when the live CD boots up i.e. synchronize the locale with the language options currently available with the CDs at boot up time.

On Monday 10 July 2006 17:42, Guillaume LELARGE wrote:
> Robert Bernier a écrit :
> > [...]
> >
> >>> There's a lot of documentation that I've added in added to the
> >>> standard reference documentation...........

> I would love to see a french one, something we can show on french booth.
> How can I start ?

Re: postgresql live-cd

How much y'all need?

S

-----Original Message-----
From: Joshua D. Drake [mailto:jd@commandprompt.com]
Sent: Saturday, July 01, 2006 12:34 AM
To: pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
Cc: Josh Berkus; Jim Nasby; Koen Martens; robin@sonologic.nl; Stephen
Slezak
Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] postgresql live-cd


On Friday 30 June 2006 17:17, Josh Berkus wrote:
> Jim,
>
> > As a reminder, Pervasive would be happy to handle production of the CDs.
>
> The goal is to avoid putting any company's name on them this time so
> that the CDs can be used at multiple conferences.

Pervasive could however, contribute to the PostgreSQL SPI fund to help pay for 
the cds if they like. It is tax deductible.

Joshua D. Drake


>
> --Josh Berkus
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 1: if posting/reading through Usenet, please send an appropriate
>        subscribe-nomail command to majordomo@postgresql.org so that your
>        message can get through to the mailing list cleanly

Re: postgresql live-cd

Is anyone else chipping in ? I have 500$ I could contribute.

S

postgresql live-cd

Hello all,

Introducing myself: Koen Martens, the person who took up the task of
creating a live cd containing (at least) postgresql and pgadmin3, to
be handed out on conferences (http://pgfoundry.org/projects/livecd/).

Now, my idea is to create one of those nifty credit-card sized cd's,
that fits in your wallet. We'd base that on DSL (Damn Small Linux)
2.4 probably.

Of course, doing a credit card sized cd limits the amount of stuff
that can be on there. Right now what should be on there i think:

- Latest 8.1 postgresql
- pgadmin3
- browsable html documentation

Don't know if that leaves us much space yet, will report later on.

Any hints, ideas, opinions are welcome!

Best,

Koen

-- 
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Re: postgresql live-cd

Re: postgresql live-cd

Re: postgresql live-cd

Re: postgresql live-cd

Robert Bernier wrote:
> On Wednesday 14 June 2006 11:45, Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
>> Hello Robert,
>>
>> Robert Bernier wrote:
>>> Have you had a look at the original pg_live?
>>>
>>> http://sraapowergres.com/en/downloads/pg_live.1.3.4-SRAA.iso.torrent
>> No, just heard of it. Unfortunately, the review link on the website is
>> broken. 
> 
> Which link is broken? I'll pass on the word to get it fixed.
> 
>> What is it built on?
> 
> based upon damn small linux
> 
>> What else does it offer beside PostgreSQL?  
> 
> - custom documentation
> - postgres reference documentation
> - apache php enabled
> - ssh server
> - postgres with many procedural lanuages (pltcl, plperl, plpython, etc...) and slony replication 
> - X11 using a very fast gui
> - phppgadmin
> - firefox
> - various hacker tools

Which version of PostgreSQL?

> 
> cheers
> 
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 9: In versions below 8.0, the planner will ignore your desire to
>        choose an index scan if your joining column's datatypes do not
>        match
> 


-- 

    === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
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Re: postgresql live-cd

Koen Martens wrote:

>Hello all,
>
>Introducing myself: Koen Martens, the person who took up the task of
>creating a live cd containing (at least) postgresql and pgadmin3, to
>be handed out on conferences (http://pgfoundry.org/projects/livecd/).
>
>Now, my idea is to create one of those nifty credit-card sized cd's,
>
>
>Any hints, ideas, opinions are welcome!
>
>Best,
>
>Koen
>
>  
>
I think that any product must be produced to increase the marketing 
visibility and position of postgresql, not just for an "insiders" 
thing.  Have you compared the cost of small nifty business card cd's 
with standard size?  My cost is .49 each for 40mb carddisc in quantity 100.

Personally, IMNSHO this trivializes the software and its presentation, 
especially when an elephant is our mascot!!

Also, there is only less than a dime's difference between cost of CD and 
DVD.  .42 for regular high quality blue disc, and .53 for 16x dvd with 
4.7Gb.

on dvd we could put gentoo, debian, Solarus and freebsd versions on plus 
all collateral products, including bizgres and enterprisedb community 
with front end, plus windows stuff of course.  It could be a really 
nifty sales package.  For instance, a first class package of six-panel 
DVDigipaks, printed as a cheat sheet I suggested earlier, plus the DVD, 
in full artwork, is only 1.99 each in 1000 quantity.  Would you pay 
$4.00 for a combination cheat sheet of functions, commands, etc. with 4 
major distros?  That is a $2.00 profit in "donations".  If only eight 
commercial types put up $500 each for inclusion of a section for their 
stuff, plus a mention on the 6 sided covers, we could produce 2000 packages.

Michael Dean

Re: postgresql live-cd

Hello,

I suggest we use Ubuntu Dapper, basic install with Xubuntu-Desktop,
PostgreSQL 8.1.4 and pgAdminIII.

This should be fairly trivial if we use something like:

linux-live

http://www.linux-live.org/

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


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Re: postgresql live-cd

All,

Robert Bernier wrote:
> On Wednesday 14 June 2006 20:27, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> I suggest we use Ubuntu Dapper, basic install with Xubuntu-Desktop,
>> PostgreSQL 8.1.4 and pgAdminIII.
> 
> I agree

We already started basing the live cd on knoppix yesterday, but that
is of course no reason to not switch to ubuntu now. I am not too
keen on ubuntu, it tends to break quickly. I think sticking with the
excellent hardware detection support of knoppix is a pre.

Furthermore, since i have gotten a lot of convincing arguments not
to use ccard-shaped or mini cd's, we're going for a normal CD. Which
means space is not too much of a problem anymore.

A first tentative ISO should be online later today. More info will
follow!

Best,

Koen

-- 
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Networking, hosting, embedded systems, unix, artificial intelligence.
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Re: postgresql live-cd

Robert Bernier wrote:
> On Thursday 15 June 2006 08:15, Koen Martens wrote:
>> We already started basing the live cd on knoppix yesterday, but that
>> is of course no reason to not switch to ubuntu now. I am not too
>> keen on ubuntu, it tends to break quickly. I think sticking with the
>> excellent hardware detection support of knoppix is a pre.
> 
> FYI, I've finished my iso development environment and am currently doing a 
> test burn of a xubuntu iso. 
> 
> What I want to do, in addition to installing postgres and all its bells and 
> whistles, is to customized the entire 'look' of the iso i.e. edit the 
> isolinux configuration files

Ok, so there is no need for our work anymore? Bit of a waste that we
worked 2 days on it already then, but ok. Would be nice to know in
advance in the future that someone else is already going to do the
work, saves people from wasting time.

Gr,

Koen

-- 
K.F.J. Martens, Sonologic, http://www.sonologic.nl/
Networking, hosting, embedded systems, unix, artificial intelligence.
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Re: postgresql live-cd

Michael Dean wrote:
> on dvd we could put gentoo, debian, Solarus and freebsd versions on plus
> all collateral products, including bizgres and enterprisedb community
> with front end, plus windows stuff of course.  It could be a really
> nifty sales package.  For instance, a first class package of six-panel
> DVDigipaks, printed as a cheat sheet I suggested earlier, plus the DVD,
> in full artwork, is only 1.99 each in 1000 quantity.  Would you pay
> $4.00 for a combination cheat sheet of functions, commands, etc. with 4
> major distros?  That is a $2.00 profit in "donations".  If only eight
> commercial types put up $500 each for inclusion of a section for their
> stuff, plus a mention on the 6 sided covers, we could produce 2000
> packages.

Nice ideas, but afaik the mission at hand is to create a live-cd
that can be handed out on conferences so that people can play with
and read about postgresql, and it can be used perhaps to give demo's
and such. I'd rather have a second cd on the short term instead of
creating a dvd, also because yes there are still people who do not
have a dvd-reader in their laptop/computer (no figures to back up
the significance of this however).

Maybe it is possible to create a cd that boots on pc as well as mac..

Gr,

Koen

-- 
K.F.J. Martens, Sonologic, http://www.sonologic.nl/
Networking, hosting, embedded systems, unix, artificial intelligence.
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Re: postgresql live-cd

All,

Hey, can we get the team pulling together here?   What we seem to have 
is 3 different people working on 3 different CDs.   Wouldn't it be 
better to all work on the SAME cd so that it can be as good as possible?

No offense, Josh, Robert, but you've known we needed a new live CD for 6 
months.  It seems kind of odd that you should wait until Koen starts to 
duplicate his efforts.

--Josh

Re: postgresql live-cd

Koen Martens wrote:
> Robert Bernier wrote:
>> On Thursday 15 June 2006 08:15, Koen Martens wrote:
>>> We already started basing the live cd on knoppix yesterday, but that
>>> is of course no reason to not switch to ubuntu now. I am not too
>>> keen on ubuntu, it tends to break quickly. I think sticking with the
>>> excellent hardware detection support of knoppix is a pre.
>> FYI, I've finished my iso development environment and am currently doing a 
>> test burn of a xubuntu iso. 
>>
>> What I want to do, in addition to installing postgres and all its bells and 
>> whistles, is to customized the entire 'look' of the iso i.e. edit the 
>> isolinux configuration files
> 
> Ok, so there is no need for our work anymore? Bit of a waste that we
> worked 2 days on it already then, but ok. Would be nice to know in
> advance in the future that someone else is already going to do the
> work, saves people from wasting time.

Koen,

I think you should consider continuing your work. Ultmiately the image 
most preferred is going to be the one used. I am not saying that will be 
yours but it is important to at least try.

Sincerely,

Joshua D. Drake


> 
> Gr,
> 
> Koen
> 


-- 

    === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
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              http://www.commandprompt.com/

Re: postgresql live-cd

Josh Berkus wrote:
> All,
> 
> Hey, can we get the team pulling together here?   What we seem to have 
> is 3 different people working on 3 different CDs.   Wouldn't it be 
> better to all work on the SAME cd so that it can be as good as possible?
> 
> No offense, Josh, Robert, but you've known we needed a new live CD for 6 
> months.  It seems kind of odd that you should wait until Koen starts to 
> duplicate his efforts.

Well my efforts were summarized last month and submitted as proposal to 
the community. That is all. I did run a test live cd as you know, but 
that's all I did. My live cd was based off my own system and would only 
fit on a DVD.

I have no desire to build a live cd.

Joshua D. Drake



> 
> --Josh
> 
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
> 


-- 

    === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
    Providing the most comprehensive  PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
              http://www.commandprompt.com/

Re: postgresql live-cd

> Well my efforts were summarized last month and submitted as proposal to 
> the community. That is all. I did run a test live cd as you know, but 
> that's all I did. My live cd was based off my own system and would only 
> fit on a DVD.

Err last night.

> 
> I have no desire to build a live cd.
> 
> Joshua D. Drake
> 
> 
> 
>>
>> --Josh
>>
>> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>> TIP 5: don't forget to increase your free space map settings
>>
> 
> 


-- 

    === The PostgreSQL Company: Command Prompt, Inc. ===
Sales/Support: +1.503.667.4564 || 24x7/Emergency: +1.800.492.2240
    Providing the most comprehensive  PostgreSQL solutions since 1997
              http://www.commandprompt.com/

Re: postgresql live-cd

Josh Berkus wrote:
> To re-phrase:   Koen specifically volunteered to help on this based on my 
> recruitment e-mail in PWN after nine months of live-CD non-activity.   
> Unless he (she?) gives up, Koen is the live-CD project lead for the time 
> being.

It is a 'he' :)

First preliminary ISO is online at
http://www.sonologic.nl/Projects/PgLive (PgFoundry has a 30MB size
limit on files).

Let me know what you think. There's a lot more to do of course,
install apps, more graphics and stuff, better 'home page' etc..

Best,

Koen

-- 
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Re: postgresql live-cd

Josh Berkus wrote:
>> Let me know what you think. There's a lot more to do of course,
>> install apps, more graphics and stuff, better 'home page' etc..
> 
> Sorry I've not yet gotten feedback to you on this.   I've discovered that I 
> don't have a convenient x86 machine which can boot from CD (!).
> 
> Has anyone else been able to try this?  Please?   We really need to order CDs 
> at the beginning of July.

Ah, ok good to know there's a deadline! We'll put some more effort
in it this week, regardless of the feedback. Got some good comments
already, about example databases a.o. If you don't have time /
ability to check the cd just shout what you think should be on there
and we'll see if there is time!

Gr,

Koen

-- 
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Networking, hosting, embedded systems, unix, artificial intelligence.
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Re: postgresql live-cd

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I just tested this. The intro is nice but I am unable to launch X. I wouldn't 
> sweat it, because it is a common problem with my laptop. My Laptop requires 
> vesa, but X detects the ATI and tries to use it (but it fails).

I bet there's a boot option for that, probably 'xmodule=vesa' (see 
also http://www.knoppix.net/wiki/Cheat_Codes).

> I did bounce over to a console and postgresql is running, but nothing in it.


> Anyone else able to try it out?

There is a new version online now btw 
(http://www.sonologic.nl/Projects/PgLive), which should be close to 
what the final release will be (given the deadline). Do you need a 
cd label design too? Who is in charge of the production process, 
finance and stuff like that?

Gr,

Koen

Re: postgresql live-cd

Jim,

> As a reminder, Pervasive would be happy to handle production of the CDs.

The goal is to avoid putting any company's name on them this time so 
that the CDs can be used at multiple conferences.

--Josh Berkus

Re: postgresql live-cd

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> On Wednesday 05 July 2006 06:54, Stephen Slezak wrote:
>> How much y'all need?
> 
> I will be able to let you know this week.

We'll probably have a last version of the CD ready today, although
it is lacking a bit into the example databases department. It has
procedural languages, but you need to enable them when you create a
database. There is currently no example database using procedural
languages on the iso.

We'll check out some of the other live cd's for example db's for a
very last release i think, although we did seem to have trouble
locating them.

If someone has a bundle of nice example databases lying around ->
please mail me!

Joshua, when do you need the master image?

Gr,

Koen

-- 
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Re: postgresql live-cd

I wish i had known this all, i would have never gotten in to this. I
put one of my employees on this, it has cost me money. Apparently,
there was no need for our effort afterall, so I basically wasted
money. Bit disappointed here. What a complete waste of time this has
been.

Robert Bernier wrote:
> Guys,
> 
> I'm announcing that I'm on the tailend of completing my own implementation of pg_live.  It's based on Ubuntu so it has full installation capabilities if the user wants it.
> 
> The full version weighs in around 720mb but that's going to drop after I have removed the language packages that aren't required in an English only environment. 
> 
> There's a lot of documentation that I've added in added to the standard reference documentation. All of which is accesible through its own http webserver.
> 
> Here's an excerpt of the iso's README file:
> 
> ===============================
> FEATURES
> Pg_live is a sophisticated environment that runs a number of services on bootup and includes:
> 
> - Apache, which is enabled with PHP
> - SSH server thus allowing secure logins from other workstations that are on the same network
> - PostgreSQL, version 8.1.4
> - pgpool, the PostgreSQL connection pool daemon
> 
> The PostgreSQL server has been preconfigured with the following procedural languages:
>          plpgsql
>          plr
>          plperl
>          plperlu
>          plpythonu
>          pltcl
>          pltclu
>          plphp
>          plphpu
> 
> The following interpretative programing languages are included:
>          perl
>          python
>          R
>          tcl
>          PHP
> 
> OTHER
> - Postgresql contributions
> - SLONY (with lots of example scripts)
> 
> POSTGRESQL CLIENTS AND UTILITIES
>         pgadmin3
>         phppgadmin
>         psql
> 
> The console based web-browser, ELINKS, is ideal when running in "console only" mode. Thus permitting access to otherwise inaccesible GUI features such as pg_live's Apache PHP client, phppgadmin, and of course the included reference documentation.
> 
> HARDWARE REQUIREMENTS
>   - GUI, 160MB RAM (default boot, all services running)
>   - GUI, 125MB RAM (runlevel 4, no services running)
>   - CONSOLE, 55MB RAM (single user mode, runlevel 1, no services running)
>   - CONSOLE, 90MB RAM (runlevel 3, all services running)
> 
> 
> 
> On Wednesday 05 July 2006 11:28, Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>> On Wednesday 05 July 2006 08:14, Koen Martens wrote:
>>> Joshua D. Drake wrote:
>>>> On Wednesday 05 July 2006 06:54, Stephen Slezak wrote:
>>>>> How much y'all need?
>>>> I will be able to let you know this week.
>>> We'll probably have a last version of the CD ready today, although
>>> it is lacking a bit into the example databases department. It has
>>> procedural languages, but you need to enable them when you create a
>>> database. There is currently no example database using procedural
>>> languages on the iso.
>> Why not add the languages to template1 so that they are created
>> automatically?
>>
>>> Joshua, when do you need the master image?
>> No later then Friday morning PST.
>>
>>> Gr,
>>>
>>> Koen
>> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
>> TIP 2: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster
> 


-- 
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Re: [IMPORTANT] postgresql live-cd

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Based on all of this, I would ask that I have the ISO no later then thursday 
> if possible.

Well, let me know which one you prefer. The stuff we've been working
on, or the one based on ubuntu. We can have the ISO ready by
tomorrow, incorporating most of the comments on this list. But only
if it makes sense. If the ubuntu one is going to be used, i'm not
going to put more effort in this. I hate doing work that is only a
duplication of what others are doing, that gives me no satisfaction
at all.

Gr,

Koen

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Re: postgresql live-cd

Hi!

I've been working with Koen on the Knoppix based postgres live CD...
Thanks for all the comments and suggestions, recent changes:

 * procedual languages are installed into the template1 db.

 * The pgfoundry example databases (paglia, world) were already
   installed on last weeks iso. - now I added a unzipped version so that
   a user low on RAM can read the .sql files without extracting them...)

 * improved support for non X11 mode. (gpm, auto-start
   doc.browser on tty1,..)

 * many minor fixes (new splash screen, replacement for the low-res
   pgadmin3 icon, updatedb, kde config,...)


stay tuned. I'm just uploading the new image.




Robert Bernier wrote:
> I'm announcing that I'm on the tailend of completing my own
> implementation of  pg_live.

I'm still downloading it. so I can't comment on it, yet.

Reading 'tru the Ubuntu pg-live feature list. I find that it has about
the same Features as our knoppix pg-live but the Knoppix variant is
somewhat more lightweight:

 - in runlevel 2  requires only 32 MB RAM
 - and runlevel 5 (X+KDE) works from about  100 MB

 - apache + pgphpadmin, sshd,... are installed but not started by
   default. (there's even a start button in the KDE menu for 'em ;-)

 - procedural lang support seems to be identical (perl,tcl,php,r,python)
   and so are the various contrib packages (slony, tsearch2, pgpool,...)


> It's based on Ubuntu so it has full installation capabilities if 
> the user wants it.
knoppix can install itself, too (create persistant disk-image Button in
the KDE menu) - I don't want to start an Ubuntu vs. Knoppix thread
now... but AFAICT the Knoppix autoconfiguration is suitable for more
Systems than Ubuntu...


> There's a lot of documentation that I've added in added to the
> standard reference documentation.

If your doc is not specific the ubuntu-live-cd it would be great if we
can include them.. - I'd also be interested in the slony example scripts
that you mention.

-robin

Re: postgresql live-cd

>>  - apache + pgphpadmin, sshd,... are installed but not started by
>>    default. (there's even a start button in the KDE menu for 'em ;-)
>
> another good idea i.e. make sure the user knows he has a choice
>
There's a note on the "Notes" page of the html doc. - maybe a Desktop
icon would be more suitable ;)
I'll fix that later tonight (CEST) - I'll redo the pg-live knoppix iso
image again - the current (rev08) has a small Bug: every item in the
KDE-knoppix menu is duplicated. :(


>>  - procedural lang support seems to be identical
>> (perl,tcl,php,r,python)
>
> Did you create an R environment for plr?

not really. I was thinking of installing lapack and the various
available debian packages, but was scared about diskspace (now I might
want to get back and install some of 'em.)


> It's been a year since I looked at knoppix, has it become easier to
install?
I didn't try it myself.


> I would like to see the development of a standard set of documentation
> for future live-cds and see about getting them translated into other
> languages thus enabling non-english venues with a live cd. Perhaps
> doing it in French could be the next translation. Comments?

I agree - the current doc we included is definitly just tentative.
(it is located on the container-iso separated from the system-image-iso,
so it's also easy to change) - but given the tight deadline, I didn't
bother to cook something up, yet: we could start a cvs/svn repo on
pgfoundry or use a wiki to collect the content...

and yes: If we're gonna keep 200MB of language support files to the iso,
we should at least translate the welcome screen of the pg_live
documentation :)


-robin

Re: [IMPORTANT] postgresql live-cd

Joshua D. Drake wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I have been working on getting a company to press the cd's for us. I am fairly 
> certain I have been successful but, we can NOT delay the delivery of the ISO. 
> We are already pushing it by giving only two weeks for them.
> 
> So everyone knows:
> 
> QTY: 2000 cds
> White Envelope with Window
> Insertion included in cost
> Full color label with blue elephant

Joshua ( or anyone else ) where can I find an 'approved' CD label?  I'd 
like to burn a few CDs for passing around to the local Linux user group 
and computer/tech community.


TIA,
Rod
-- 

> 
> Based on all of this, I would ask that I have the ISO no later then thursday 
> if possible.
> 
> Sincerely,
> 
> Joshua D. Drake
> 
> 

Re: postgresql live-cd

Robert,

I'm unhappy that you're doing your own, separate live-cd and not 
collaborating with Koen or Robin at all.  Is there a good reason for this?

--Josh Berkus

Re: postgresql live-cd

Robert Bernier a écrit :
> [...]
>>> There's a lot of documentation that I've added in added to the
>>> standard reference documentation.
>> If your doc is not specific the ubuntu-live-cd it would be great if we
>> can include them.. - I'd also be interested in the slony example scripts
>> that you mention.
> 
> The documentation is part of my writings written for various publications from the past few years. You may use my articles but please keep my copyright on them.
> 
> Another request, please do not change the text without first consulting with me (after all this is my bread and butter).
> 
> Be advised pg_live includes documentation from one other author, the R tutorial.
> 
> I would like to see the development of a standard set of documentation for future live-cds and see about getting them translated into other languages thus enabling non-english venues with a live cd. Perhaps doing it in French could be the next translation. Comments?
> 

I would love to see a french one, something we can show on french booth.
How can I start ?


-- 
Guillaume.

Re: postgresql live-cd

Robert Bernier a écrit :
> Bonjour Guillaume,
> 
> Do you have a copy of the CD with the documentation?
> 

I just grab one. I mounted it, mounted the squashfs file system and
found the html files (toc, main, documentation) and the folders
(articles and ebook).

> I would say the first step is to acquire the the french language version of the postgresql pages and install them onto the CD. The next step is to configure the bookmarks on the browser for a franco version.
> 
> We then have to configure the boot up sequence to automatically choose the correct set of documents when the live CD boots up i.e. synchronize the locale with the language options currently available with the CDs at boot up time.
> 

OK, I'm gonna do this. Let's begin with the html files...


-- 
Guillaume.

Re: postgresql live-cd

pgsql@metro.cx (Koen Martens) writes:
> If someone has a bundle of nice example databases lying around ->
> please mail me!

The following should be suitable for this...
  
-- 
(format nil "~S@~S" "cbbrowne" "cbbrowne.com")
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Evil Overlords tend to get overthrown due to overly baroque plans with
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Re: postgresql live-cd

pgsql@metro.cx (Koen Martens) writes:
> I wish i had known this all, i would have never gotten in to this. I
> put one of my employees on this, it has cost me money. Apparently,
> there was no need for our effort afterall, so I basically wasted
> money. Bit disappointed here. What a complete waste of time this has
> been.

Surely not...  It's a good thing to get fresh faces involved with
this.

A "nice to have" would be for there to be two CDs with somewhat
varying intents.  If discussion over the last year means anything,
there is a desire for there to be a FreeBSD-based "live CD," and if
that emerges, it seems an excellent idea to have a choice of both a
Linux-based option and a FreeBSD-based option.  Nothing wrong with
that.
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