Обсуждение: Experts vs do-it-yourselfers

Поиск
Список
Период
Сортировка

Experts vs do-it-yourselfers

От
nhrcommu@rochester.rr.com
Дата:
Folks,

Bear with me just a moment. I am brevity challenged.

My wife wants to do some serious remodeling of our
kitchen.  I have a hammer, some nails, a screwdriver
and a lawnmower. I received a "C" in 7th grade shop,
which is when I believe my talents for carpentry
peaked.

Do it myself -- or get a professional?

My generalized suggestion (a bit tongue-in-cheek) --
PR (for release)

"PostgreSQL (Advocacy) Group today grudgingly
acknowledged that PostgreSQL is the world's best
Open Source object relational database.   The
Elephant trumpeted, "Our ability to effectively
market my enormous strengths has been lacking.  I am
now seeking the advise, guidance and support of a
professional Marketing/Public Relations firm that
will enable me to become the database of choice for
individuals, small, medium and large businesses
around the world. The firm that is chosen will be
compensated with significant, ongoing publicity. And
a T-shirt. Interested Marketing/PR firms should
contact ....@...."

I have only been on this list for a couple of weeks
and certainly have NOT earned the right to be
critical.  Many people have done their best. But I
can't help but feeling like we are trying to remodel
the kitchen with a lawnmower.

I suggest throwing a trial balloon out there and see
if some real marketing pro's (preferably
International) grab it. Being able to say that
PostgreSQL is a "success story" is much like
PostgreSQL saying "XYZ (insert Monster company) is a
happy user".  Wouldn't surprise me to see users
increase by 5x over the course of a full,
implemented year.

Thanks,
Mike E.

Re: Experts vs do-it-yourselfers

От
Josh Berkus
Дата:
Mike,

> I suggest throwing a trial balloon out there and see
> if some real marketing pro's (preferably
> International) grab it. Being able to say that
> PostgreSQL is a "success story" is much like
> PostgreSQL saying "XYZ (insert Monster company) is a
> happy user".  Wouldn't surprise me to see users
> increase by 5x over the course of a full,
> implemented year.

This is a whole community of do-it-yourselfers.

Actually, a marketing firm volunteered to help us a couple years back;
unfortunately, the community wasn't ready to accept that kind of help
and, well, the relationship ended badly.

One of the big problems with that event was that there was no consensus
on what we wanted the marketing firm to do and what we wanted to do
ourselves.   Also, they wanted to push us toward deciding on an "image"
for the project at a time when a substantial minority of the community
wasn't even in agreement that we needed organized PR at all.  So before
we started a relationship with an outside agency, we'd need to get a
consensus on what we wanted them to do.

Further, I tend to think that most of our limitations in marketing/PR
are related to lack of manpower rather than lack of knowledge.  For
something (case studies, advertising, contacting users, print materials)
outside marketeers could help; for other things (releases, web site,
corporate relations, oss relations, "image") they could only advise us
editorially; we'd still have to do the work.  And professional
marketeers always want to talk about the "big picture", which leads off
into political debate.

Add to this that PostgreSQL is supported by several companies each of
whom has their own marketing and you find a project management task far
beyond the bandwidth of anyone on this list.  Plus, if Sun and SRA and
CMD and PGInc and FJ etc. are marketing PostgreSQL, does the community
really need to put a lot of effort into it?

Now, some of us (mostly foundation organizers) have talked about having
a PostgreSQL trade association so that the supporting companies could
pour money into joint marketing of PostgreSQL.  I think that would be a
lot more likely to be successful than trying to form a relationship with
outside marketing via this list.

--Josh



Re: Experts vs do-it-yourselfers

От
Mike Ellsworth
Дата:
I'd probably be more of a dribbler than a pourer for $$, but could
contribute 300 hours (my company) annually of  effort.  Would NOT want
to be the task-manger, but could be a worker bee.

A new list "Commercial Advocates" may be a thought.

Thanks,
Mike





Josh Berkus wrote:

> Mike,
>
>> I suggest throwing a trial balloon out there and see
>> if some real marketing pro's (preferably
>> International) grab it. Being able to say that
>> PostgreSQL is a "success story" is much like
>> PostgreSQL saying "XYZ (insert Monster company) is a
>> happy user".  Wouldn't surprise me to see users
>> increase by 5x over the course of a full,
>> implemented year.
>
>
>
> Now, some of us (mostly foundation organizers) have talked about
> having a PostgreSQL trade association so that the supporting companies
> could pour money into joint marketing of PostgreSQL.  I think that
> would be a lot more likely to be successful than trying to form a
> relationship with outside marketing via this list.
>
> --Josh
>
>
>



Re: Experts vs do-it-yourselfers

От
"Jim C. Nasby"
Дата:
On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:01:25AM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote:
> I'd probably be more of a dribbler than a pourer for $$, but could
> contribute 300 hours (my company) annually of  effort.  Would NOT want
> to be the task-manger, but could be a worker bee.
>
> A new list "Commercial Advocates" may be a thought.

I think the time is probably right for some kind of alliance of the
commercial players in PostgreSQL. I'm certainly in favor of it, at least
personally. I expect my employer would be as well.
--
Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant      jnasby@pervasive.com
Pervasive Software      http://pervasive.com    work: 512-231-6117
vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf       cell: 512-569-9461

Re: Experts vs do-it-yourselfers

От
"Andy Astor"
Дата:
We would certainly join and contribute.

    -- Andy

Andy Astor, CEO
EnterpriseDB Corporation
777 New Durham Road
Edison, NJ 08817
Tel  732.331.1310
Cell 973.879.3763
www.enterprisedb.com



> -----Original Message-----
> From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-
> owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Jim C. Nasby
> Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 3:52 PM
> To: Mike Ellsworth
> Cc: Josh Berkus; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
> Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Experts vs do-it-yourselfers
>
> On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:01:25AM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote:
> > I'd probably be more of a dribbler than a pourer for $$, but could
> > contribute 300 hours (my company) annually of  effort.  Would NOT
want
> > to be the task-manger, but could be a worker bee.
> >
> > A new list "Commercial Advocates" may be a thought.
>
> I think the time is probably right for some kind of alliance of the
> commercial players in PostgreSQL. I'm certainly in favor of it, at
least
> personally. I expect my employer would be as well.
> --
> Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant      jnasby@pervasive.com
> Pervasive Software      http://pervasive.com    work: 512-231-6117
> vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf       cell: 512-569-9461
>
> ---------------------------(end of
broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
>
>                http://archives.postgresql.org


Re: Experts vs do-it-yourselfers

От
Ned Lilly
Дата:
OpenMFG would like to learn more.  Is there an actual proposal here?

Cheers,
Ned

--
Ned Lilly
President and CEO
OpenMFG, LLC
119 West York Street
Norfolk, VA 23510
tel. 757.461.3022 x101
email: ned@openmfg.com
www.openmfg.com


Andy Astor wrote:
> We would certainly join and contribute.
>
>     -- Andy
>
> Andy Astor, CEO
> EnterpriseDB Corporation
> 777 New Durham Road
> Edison, NJ 08817
> Tel  732.331.1310
> Cell 973.879.3763
> www.enterprisedb.com
>
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: pgsql-advocacy-owner@postgresql.org [mailto:pgsql-advocacy-
>>owner@postgresql.org] On Behalf Of Jim C. Nasby
>>Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 3:52 PM
>>To: Mike Ellsworth
>>Cc: Josh Berkus; pgsql-advocacy@postgresql.org
>>Subject: Re: [pgsql-advocacy] Experts vs do-it-yourselfers
>>
>>On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:01:25AM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote:
>>
>>>I'd probably be more of a dribbler than a pourer for $$, but could
>>>contribute 300 hours (my company) annually of  effort.  Would NOT
>
> want
>
>>>to be the task-manger, but could be a worker bee.
>>>
>>>A new list "Commercial Advocates" may be a thought.
>>
>>I think the time is probably right for some kind of alliance of the
>>commercial players in PostgreSQL. I'm certainly in favor of it, at
>
> least
>
>>personally. I expect my employer would be as well.
>>--
>>Jim C. Nasby, Sr. Engineering Consultant      jnasby@pervasive.com
>>Pervasive Software      http://pervasive.com    work: 512-231-6117
>>vcard: http://jim.nasby.net/pervasive.vcf       cell: 512-569-9461
>>
>>---------------------------(end of
>
> broadcast)---------------------------
>
>>TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
>>
>>               http://archives.postgresql.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------(end of broadcast)---------------------------
> TIP 4: Have you searched our list archives?
>
>                http://archives.postgresql.org
>
>
>

Re: Experts vs do-it-yourselfers

От
Mike Ellsworth
Дата:
I believe that it's an unwitten (but rigidly enforced) rule that the 1st
one to use that 8 letter word is compelled to be the 1st submitter.

:")

Mike E.



Ned Lilly wrote:

> OpenMFG would like to learn more. Is there an actual proposal here?
>
> Cheers,
> Ned
>



Re: Experts vs do-it-yourselfers

От
EWald Geschwinde
Дата:
we are interested in this proposal and want to know more about it.

Regards Ewald Geschwinde
Cybertec


Jim C. Nasby wrote:

>On Tue, Dec 06, 2005 at 08:01:25AM -0500, Mike Ellsworth wrote:
>
>
>>I'd probably be more of a dribbler than a pourer for $$, but could
>>contribute 300 hours (my company) annually of  effort.  Would NOT want
>>to be the task-manger, but could be a worker bee.
>>
>>A new list "Commercial Advocates" may be a thought.
>>
>>
>
>I think the time is probably right for some kind of alliance of the
>commercial players in PostgreSQL. I'm certainly in favor of it, at least
>personally. I expect my employer would be as well.
>
>