Обсуждение: InformationWeek article on PostgreSQL
http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=23902346&tid=5979 What I find most interesting about the article is that, while the writer takes the time to contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL, he doesn't bother to do any fact checking from his other source; I quote: "But it still lacks some items most commercial databases have, such as encryption and row-level locking, according to a report from the Aberdeen Group." Nice. Robert Treat -- Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL
Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry Geoff) know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper it is printed on. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Robert Treat wrote: > http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=23902346&tid=5979 > > What I find most interesting about the article is that, while the writer > takes the time to contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL, he doesn't > bother to do any fact checking from his other source; I quote: > > "But it still lacks some items most commercial databases have, such as > encryption and row-level locking, according to a report from the > Aberdeen Group." > > Nice. > > Robert Treat > -- > Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings > -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
pgman wrote: > > Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry Geoff) > know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper it is > printed on. What I mean is that they are looking for a MySQL AB company that controls PostgreSQL, and there isn't one. Is Geoff clarifying that and asking them to talk to the community instead? I assume they aren't caling Geoff to talk about PostgreSQL, Inc. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Robert Treat wrote: > > http://www.informationweek.com/story/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=23902346&tid=5979 > > > > What I find most interesting about the article is that, while the writer > > takes the time to contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL, he doesn't > > bother to do any fact checking from his other source; I quote: > > > > "But it still lacks some items most commercial databases have, such as > > encryption and row-level locking, according to a report from the > > Aberdeen Group." > > > > Nice. > > > > Robert Treat > > -- > > Build A Brighter Lamp :: Linux Apache {middleware} PostgreSQL > > > > > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > > TIP 7: don't forget to increase your free space map settings > > > > -- > Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us > pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 > + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road > + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
ahh copy rights, trademarks, perceptions and just when you thought the debate about the elephants was over. Bruce Momjian wrote: >Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry Geoff) >know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper it is >printed on. > > > >
Bruce Momjian wrote: > pgman wrote: > > > > Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry Geoff) > > know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper it is > > printed on. > > What I mean is that they are looking for a MySQL AB company that > controls PostgreSQL, and there isn't one. Is Geoff clarifying that and > asking them to talk to the community instead? I assume they aren't > caling Geoff to talk about PostgreSQL, Inc. > OK, I read the article now and I see Geoff did a great job highlighting our community approach, and it has nice quote too. And he was contacted as a member of PostgreSQL, Inc, great! -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry Geoff) > know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper it is > printed on. Based on what do you jump to the conclusion that he "knows so little about us"? Geoff, surprisingly enough, has a mindset of (to my chagrin at times) techie first, businessmen second ... he knows *more* about us then the average salesman out there pushing any database knows, and most of that is from almost 5 years of having Thomas, Vadim and I beating it into him. In fact, from day 1, he had enough understanding of what OSS was, and how it worked, to know that to do anything that could/would harm it is "a Bad Thing", and in all his business dealings concerning PostgreSQL, he has striven(sp?) to take the "OSS ground" as required ... Based on your one sentence above, its easier for me to come to the conclusion that "you know so little about Geoff that I'm surprised you even wasted the bandwidth on it", then it is for you to come to *your* conclusion based on nadda ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 11:33, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > > Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry Geoff) > > know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper it is > > printed on. > > Based on what do you jump to the conclusion that he "knows so little about > us"? Geoff, surprisingly enough, has a mindset of (to my chagrin at I think the problem isn't Geoff, but the Aberdeen Group. The article was poorly written and to make it look like Geoff may have been quoting Aberdeen's report, which said we don't support row locking (FOR UPDATE anyone?)
I wrongly assumed this was another article where the author confused PostgreSQL Inc with PostgreSQL community. It has happened so often I didn't even read the article. After I read it, I see Geoff was quoted as a PostgreSQL support company and the article in fact clarified our idependent status, which is great. Yea, the Aberdeen Group quote was poor, but we can't have everything. --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Rod Taylor wrote: > On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 11:33, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > > > > > Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry Geoff) > > > know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper it is > > > printed on. > > > > Based on what do you jump to the conclusion that he "knows so little about > > us"? Geoff, surprisingly enough, has a mindset of (to my chagrin at > > I think the problem isn't Geoff, but the Aberdeen Group. The article was > poorly written and to make it look like Geoff may have been quoting > Aberdeen's report, which said we don't support row locking (FOR UPDATE > anyone?) > > -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
Oh, and my apologies to Geoff, who did a great job in the article! --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > > Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry Geoff) > > know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper it is > > printed on. > > Based on what do you jump to the conclusion that he "knows so little about > us"? Geoff, surprisingly enough, has a mindset of (to my chagrin at > times) techie first, businessmen second ... he knows *more* about us then > the average salesman out there pushing any database knows, and most of > that is from almost 5 years of having Thomas, Vadim and I beating it into > him. In fact, from day 1, he had enough understanding of what OSS was, > and how it worked, to know that to do anything that could/would harm it is > "a Bad Thing", and in all his business dealings concerning PostgreSQL, he > has striven(sp?) to take the "OSS ground" as required ... > > Based on your one sentence above, its easier for me to come to the > conclusion that "you know so little about Geoff that I'm surprised you > even wasted the bandwidth on it", then it is for you to come to *your* > conclusion based on nadda ... > > > ---- > Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) > Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster > -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
It's exteremly common when the two entities have the same name. Has anyone thought of suggesting a change of name from PostgreSQL Inc. to PGSQL Inc. so that; a) They're name reflects the website URL b) It vastly lessens the confusion. Al. > > > I wrongly assumed this was another article where the author confused > PostgreSQL Inc with PostgreSQL community. It has happened so often I > didn't even read the article. After I read it, I see Geoff was quoted > as a PostgreSQL support company and the article in fact clarified our > idependent status, which is great. Yea, the Aberdeen Group quote was > poor, but we can't have everything. > > --------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Rod Taylor wrote: > > On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 11:33, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry Geoff) > > > > know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper it is > > > > printed on. > > > > > > Based on what do you jump to the conclusion that he "knows so little about > > > us"? Geoff, surprisingly enough, has a mindset of (to my chagrin at > > > > I think the problem isn't Geoff, but the Aberdeen Group. The article was > > poorly written and to make it look like Geoff may have been quoting > > Aberdeen's report, which said we don't support row locking (FOR UPDATE > > anyone?) > > > > > > -- > Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us > pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 > + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road > + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073 > > ---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- > TIP 4: Don't 'kill -9' the postmaster >
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > I wrongly assumed this was another article where the author confused > PostgreSQL Inc with PostgreSQL community. 'k, so you jump'd on Geoff as a result of this? *scratch head* The author screws up, but Geoff doesn't know much about us? Wow, that's some logic trail you must have had to go through there, to get from Point A to Point B :) ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Folks, I've already contacted the editors at InformationWeek; personally, I'd like to develop a relationship with the writer so that he knows where to come for accurate information. Unfortunately, I know from experience that the editors at InformationWeek are rather unresponsive. So if anyone here has an inside connection at that publication, please speak up. -- Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry > > Geoff) know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper > > it is printed on. > > Based on what do you jump to the conclusion that he "knows so little > about us"? That's not what Bruce said. Bruce said that people who want information about PostgreSQL and for that reason contact Geoff Davidson are misguided, which is true. Of course, it's still a far better shot than contacting the owner of the grocery store at the corner, but it still doesn't show much of a clue on the part of the author of the article. -- Peter Eisentraut http://developer.postgresql.org/~petere/
On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Robert Treat wrote: > On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 11:33, Marc G. Fournier wrote: >> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: >> >>> >>> Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry Geoff) >>> know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper it is >>> printed on. >> >> Based on what do you jump to the conclusion that he "knows so little about >> us"? Geoff, surprisingly enough, has a mindset of (to my chagrin at >> times) techie first, businessmen second ... he knows *more* about us then >> the average salesman out there pushing any database knows, and most of >> that is from almost 5 years of having Thomas, Vadim and I beating it into >> him. In fact, from day 1, he had enough understanding of what OSS was, >> and how it worked, to know that to do anything that could/would harm it is >> "a Bad Thing", and in all his business dealings concerning PostgreSQL, he >> has striven(sp?) to take the "OSS ground" as required ... >> >> Based on your one sentence above, its easier for me to come to the >> conclusion that "you know so little about Geoff that I'm surprised you >> even wasted the bandwidth on it", then it is for you to come to *your* >> conclusion based on nadda ... >> > > easy now... Bruce was saying that the *reporter* knows so little about > us; not questioning Geoff's knowledge. Oops, apologies to Bruce here ... re-reading his original, you are correct ... I mis-read it the first (and second) time before responding ;( Sorry Bruce ... ---- Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: scrappy@hub.org Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664
Marc G. Fournier wrote: > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Robert Treat wrote: > > > On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 11:33, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > >> On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry Geoff) > >>> know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper it is > >>> printed on. > >> > >> Based on what do you jump to the conclusion that he "knows so little about > >> us"? Geoff, surprisingly enough, has a mindset of (to my chagrin at > >> times) techie first, businessmen second ... he knows *more* about us then > >> the average salesman out there pushing any database knows, and most of > >> that is from almost 5 years of having Thomas, Vadim and I beating it into > >> him. In fact, from day 1, he had enough understanding of what OSS was, > >> and how it worked, to know that to do anything that could/would harm it is > >> "a Bad Thing", and in all his business dealings concerning PostgreSQL, he > >> has striven(sp?) to take the "OSS ground" as required ... > >> > >> Based on your one sentence above, its easier for me to come to the > >> conclusion that "you know so little about Geoff that I'm surprised you > >> even wasted the bandwidth on it", then it is for you to come to *your* > >> conclusion based on nadda ... > >> > > > > easy now... Bruce was saying that the *reporter* knows so little about > > us; not questioning Geoff's knowledge. > > Oops, apologies to Bruce here ... re-reading his original, you are > correct ... I mis-read it the first (and second) time before responding ;( > Sorry Bruce ... No problem. Mistakes all around. :-) I bet the "sorry Geoff" part thew you off. But in fact it seems they wanted a company view and Geoff was a good choice. -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 16:56, Rod Taylor wrote: > On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 11:33, Marc G. Fournier wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Jul 2004, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > > > > > > > Guys who would contact Geoff Davidson about PostgreSQL (sorry Geoff) > > > know so little about us that it is not even worth the paper it is > > > printed on. > > > > Based on what do you jump to the conclusion that he "knows so little about > > us"? Geoff, surprisingly enough, has a mindset of (to my chagrin at > > I think the problem isn't Geoff, but the Aberdeen Group. The article was > poorly written and to make it look like Geoff may have been quoting > Aberdeen's report, which said we don't support row locking (FOR UPDATE > anyone?) > The Aberdeen report is very poorly written. ISTM that they are confused as to which database is which and have done very little research beyond they "spoke to some MySQL users". The report seems to have been re-published recently, with no updated facts. If your listening boys, sue me - I could do with a new car. A personal opinion, Simon Riggs
On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 17:48, Josh Berkus wrote: > Folks, > > I've already contacted the editors at InformationWeek; personally, I'd like to > develop a relationship with the writer so that he knows where to come for > accurate information. > > Unfortunately, I know from experience that the editors at InformationWeek are > rather unresponsive. So if anyone here has an inside connection at that > publication, please speak up. Advertise. It's the only way they listen. Perhaps we should pay for a full page ad alongside an article describing the features of PostgreSQL 7.5? I'll put $50 in the pot for that. Best Regards, Simon Riggs
Simon, > The Aberdeen report is very poorly written. ISTM that they are confused > as to which database is which and have done very little research beyond > they "spoke to some MySQL users". The report seems to have been > re-published recently, with no updated facts. If your listening boys, > sue me - I could do with a new car. Apparently the author no longer works for Aberdeen. So maybe they weren't happy with the report either. I took up the inaccuracies with SleepyCat, who commissioned the report, and they took it up with Aberdeen ... but I don't know what happened after that. Certainly they haven't corrected the report. I don't think there's anything we *can* do at the moment other than take it up with an attorney, which really hasn't been our project's style. -- -Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
Simon, > Advertise. It's the only way they listen. > > Perhaps we should pay for a full page ad alongside an article describing > the features of PostgreSQL 7.5? > > I'll put $50 in the pot for that. Well, we *are* organizing a "PostgreSQL advocacy foundation", so I'll hold you to that pledge as soon as we get our 501(c)3. -- -Josh Berkus Aglio Database Solutions San Francisco
Josh Berkus wrote: > Simon, > > > Advertise. It's the only way they listen. > > > > Perhaps we should pay for a full page ad alongside an article describing > > the features of PostgreSQL 7.5? > > > > I'll put $50 in the pot for that. > > Well, we *are* organizing a "PostgreSQL advocacy foundation", so I'll hold you > to that pledge as soon as we get our 501(c)3. 501(c)3 == US non-profit status -- Bruce Momjian | http://candle.pha.pa.us pgman@candle.pha.pa.us | (610) 359-1001 + If your life is a hard drive, | 13 Roberts Road + Christ can be your backup. | Newtown Square, Pennsylvania 19073
On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 21:29, Bruce Momjian wrote: > Josh Berkus wrote: > > Simon, > > > > > Advertise. It's the only way they listen. > > > > > > Perhaps we should pay for a full page ad alongside an article describing > > > the features of PostgreSQL 7.5? > > > > > > I'll put $50 in the pot for that. > > > > Well, we *are* organizing a "PostgreSQL advocacy foundation", so I'll hold you > > to that pledge as soon as we get our 501(c)3. > > 501(c)3 == US non-profit status Excellent - tax deductible jeans. :) Merci de la traduction. Je ne comprends pas les américain. Je parlez European. Best Regards, Simon Riggs
moi, je comprends le quebecois :-) Simon Riggs wrote: >On Wed, 2004-07-21 at 21:29, Bruce Momjian wrote: > > >>Josh Berkus wrote: >> >> >>>Simon, >>> >>> >>> >>>>Advertise. It's the only way they listen. >>>> >>>>Perhaps we should pay for a full page ad alongside an article describing >>>>the features of PostgreSQL 7.5? >>>> >>>>I'll put $50 in the pot for that. >>>> >>>> >>>Well, we *are* organizing a "PostgreSQL advocacy foundation", so I'll hold you >>>to that pledge as soon as we get our 501(c)3. >>> >>> >>501(c)3 == US non-profit status >> >> > >Excellent - tax deductible jeans. :) > >Merci de la traduction. Je ne comprends pas les américain. Je parlez European. > >Best Regards, Simon Riggs > > >---------------------------(end of broadcast)--------------------------- >TIP 9: the planner will ignore your desire to choose an index scan if your > joining column's datatypes do not match > > >