Обсуждение: Remove dialogue "Apply" buttons?
The Function, Trigger and View dialogues (and the Package dialogue for Postgres Plus Advanced Server users) are the only properties dialogues in pgAdmin which have Apply buttons. They have these because those dialogues can be used to write code of some description (though, for triggers that is again only on PPAS, which supports triggers with in-line SPL code). The Function and View dialogues also have Guru Hints that are shown when you use them to actively discourage users from editing code in that way, and to use the Query Tool instead. We've recently discovered some bugs related to use of the Apply buttons, one of which has already been fixed with a complex patch, and one of which is still being worked on, but is already a non-trivial amount of code change. As we have so few of these buttons and they're there primarily to support a working practice that we discourage anyway, I'd like to simply remove them so we can avoid the fragile and messy code changes needed to make them work reliably. I propose to do this both for 1.18.x *and* 1.16.2+ Comments/objections please? -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
On Wed, 2013-05-15 at 16:57 +0100, Dave Page wrote: > The Function, Trigger and View dialogues (and the Package dialogue for > Postgres Plus Advanced Server users) are the only properties dialogues > in pgAdmin which have Apply buttons. > > They have these because those dialogues can be used to write code of > some description (though, for triggers that is again only on PPAS, > which supports triggers with in-line SPL code). > > The Function and View dialogues also have Guru Hints that are shown > when you use them to actively discourage users from editing code in > that way, and to use the Query Tool instead. > > We've recently discovered some bugs related to use of the Apply > buttons, one of which has already been fixed with a complex patch, and > one of which is still being worked on, but is already a non-trivial > amount of code change. > > As we have so few of these buttons and they're there primarily to > support a working practice that we discourage anyway, I'd like to > simply remove them so we can avoid the fragile and messy code changes > needed to make them work reliably. > > I propose to do this both for 1.18.x *and* 1.16.2+ > > Comments/objections please? > +1 to remove them from 1.18. I would prefer to keep them in 1.16, as it is a stable release. -- Guillaume http://blog.guillaume.lelarge.info http://www.dalibo.com
On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Guillaume Lelarge <guillaume@lelarge.info> wrote: > On Wed, 2013-05-15 at 16:57 +0100, Dave Page wrote: >> The Function, Trigger and View dialogues (and the Package dialogue for >> Postgres Plus Advanced Server users) are the only properties dialogues >> in pgAdmin which have Apply buttons. >> >> They have these because those dialogues can be used to write code of >> some description (though, for triggers that is again only on PPAS, >> which supports triggers with in-line SPL code). >> >> The Function and View dialogues also have Guru Hints that are shown >> when you use them to actively discourage users from editing code in >> that way, and to use the Query Tool instead. >> >> We've recently discovered some bugs related to use of the Apply >> buttons, one of which has already been fixed with a complex patch, and >> one of which is still being worked on, but is already a non-trivial >> amount of code change. >> >> As we have so few of these buttons and they're there primarily to >> support a working practice that we discourage anyway, I'd like to >> simply remove them so we can avoid the fragile and messy code changes >> needed to make them work reliably. >> >> I propose to do this both for 1.18.x *and* 1.16.2+ >> >> Comments/objections please? >> > > +1 to remove them from 1.18. > > I would prefer to keep them in 1.16, as it is a stable release. Well, no it's not - that's the point. There is very high risk that fixing the bugs will cause even more things to break, and frankly I'm not prepared to spend any more time fixing them. My beermat calculation tells me we've already spent at least 2 man-weeks in this cycle alone, trying to fix issues caused by these buttons. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company
On Sat, 2013-05-18 at 14:26 +0100, Dave Page wrote: > On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 1:30 PM, Guillaume Lelarge > <guillaume@lelarge.info> wrote: > > On Wed, 2013-05-15 at 16:57 +0100, Dave Page wrote: > >> The Function, Trigger and View dialogues (and the Package dialogue for > >> Postgres Plus Advanced Server users) are the only properties dialogues > >> in pgAdmin which have Apply buttons. > >> > >> They have these because those dialogues can be used to write code of > >> some description (though, for triggers that is again only on PPAS, > >> which supports triggers with in-line SPL code). > >> > >> The Function and View dialogues also have Guru Hints that are shown > >> when you use them to actively discourage users from editing code in > >> that way, and to use the Query Tool instead. > >> > >> We've recently discovered some bugs related to use of the Apply > >> buttons, one of which has already been fixed with a complex patch, and > >> one of which is still being worked on, but is already a non-trivial > >> amount of code change. > >> > >> As we have so few of these buttons and they're there primarily to > >> support a working practice that we discourage anyway, I'd like to > >> simply remove them so we can avoid the fragile and messy code changes > >> needed to make them work reliably. > >> > >> I propose to do this both for 1.18.x *and* 1.16.2+ > >> > >> Comments/objections please? > >> > > > > +1 to remove them from 1.18. > > > > I would prefer to keep them in 1.16, as it is a stable release. > > Well, no it's not - that's the point. There is very high risk that > fixing the bugs will cause even more things to break, and frankly I'm > not prepared to spend any more time fixing them. My beermat > calculation tells me we've already spent at least 2 man-weeks in this > cycle alone, trying to fix issues caused by these buttons. > Wow, I did expect it would take some time to fix it, but not that much time. Anyway, I'm not feeling strongly on the "not for 1.16", so go ahead, and push the fixes :) -- Guillaume http://blog.guillaume.lelarge.info http://www.dalibo.com
On 18.5.2013 15:26, Dave Page wrote: > > As we have so few of these buttons and they're there primarily to > support a working practice that we discourage anyway, I'd like to > simply remove them so we can avoid the fragile and messy code changes > needed to make them work reliably. > > I propose to do this both for 1.18.x *and* 1.16.2+ > > Comments/objections please? Do I understand correctly, you are talking about Apply button available in function edit window? If yes, how do you suppose to work, editing function content without Apply button? Using OK button only? but OK button closes window, so making multiple changes needs to reopen this windows again and again. If I'm right, then drop editing function content at at all. Seems to be useless then. > Well, no it's not - that's the point. There is very high risk that > fixing the bugs will cause even more things to break, and frankly I'm > not prepared to spend any more time fixing them. My beermat > calculation tells me we've already spent at least 2 man-weeks in this > cycle alone, trying to fix issues caused by these buttons. I'm aghast about the source code quality. Fixing Apply buttons took 2 man-weeks? Let's take it half-seriously: maybe it's not bad idea to drop pgadmin developement at all ;-) At least consider to rewrite it from screatch. With regards
On Mon, May 20, 2013 at 10:32 AM, Michal Kozusznik <kozusznik.michal@ifortuna.cz> wrote: > On 18.5.2013 15:26, Dave Page wrote: >> >> >> As we have so few of these buttons and they're there primarily to >> support a working practice that we discourage anyway, I'd like to >> simply remove them so we can avoid the fragile and messy code changes >> needed to make them work reliably. >> >> I propose to do this both for 1.18.x *and* 1.16.2+ >> >> Comments/objections please? > > > Do I understand correctly, you are talking about Apply button available in > function edit window? > If yes, how do you suppose to work, editing function content without Apply > button? Using OK button only? but OK button closes window, so making > multiple changes needs to reopen this windows again and again. If I'm right, > then drop editing function content at at all. Seems to be useless then. The properties dialogues are designed for making quick tweaks to objects, or the initial creation of them. There is a Guru Hint that is displayed when you edit a function or view that strongly encourages users to do "real" editing in the query tool which is much better suited to developing and debugging queries and code. Different tools are suited to different types of task. >> Well, no it's not - that's the point. There is very high risk that >> fixing the bugs will cause even more things to break, and frankly I'm >> not prepared to spend any more time fixing them. My beermat >> calculation tells me we've already spent at least 2 man-weeks in this >> cycle alone, trying to fix issues caused by these buttons. > > > I'm aghast about the source code quality. Fixing Apply buttons took 2 > man-weeks? No - fixing a number of subtle and complex bugs took 2 weeks. It just so happens that those bugs are all related to code needed to support the Apply buttons which we actively discourage people from using anyway. > Let's take it half-seriously: maybe it's not bad idea to drop pgadmin > developement at all ;-) At least consider to rewrite it from screatch. I've wanted to rewrite it from scratch for 3 or 4 years now - if only to get rid of wxWidgets which has never really matured as we want - but rewriting over a quarter of a million lines of code is not exactly something that I can do single-handedly any more, whilst also spending time with my family and doing my day job. With only 2 regular volunteer developers, and a few hours here and there from EDB staff, there's not a great deal we can do other than fix bugs where we can and continue to cleanup and simplify the existing code where possible. -- Dave Page Blog: http://pgsnake.blogspot.com Twitter: @pgsnake EnterpriseDB UK: http://www.enterprisedb.com The Enterprise PostgreSQL Company